2009/8/12 Sascha 'saigkill' Manns :

Hi Roland,

Am Mittwoch 12 August 2009 10:57:27 wrote Roland Haidl:

...

The people working in the team are all well known since they already  worked a lot in the community. I leave it up to the team to  introduce itself. As the lead of the team we nominated Klaas  Freitag, who is an experienced manager on the one hand and a  community guy on the other. Henne Vogelsang takes over the role as  project manager openSUSE, and Stephan Kulow will continue to be the  release manager for the next openSUSE distribution. Who are the other six People?

Ten team members Four are known Five live in secret One will be revealed (if you have not seen Battlestar Galactica (reimagining) ignore this) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 12 August 2009 19:35:10 jdd (kim2) wrote:

Cristian Morales Vega a écrit :

...

(if you have not seen Battlestar Galactica (reimagining) ignore this)

well... how many alive for this time ?

Well they wanted to clone Coolo, but the clones are all busy hacking KPat, so I'm one of openSUSE Team instead. Will -- openSUSE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Le jeudi 13 août 2009, à 01:30 +0200, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

Name 10 Novell Employees that really stick out in the openSUSE Project.

01 ___________________ 02 ___________________ 03 ___________________ 04 ___________________ 05 ___________________ 06 ___________________ 07 ___________________ 08 ___________________ 09 ___________________ 10 ___________________

Whoever gets the most right (first) gets a openSUSE goodie pack hand selected by me. I even throw in something from my personal stash of historic openSUSE goodies! So lets see if you can guess who :)

Can everybody participate to that game? :-) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Perhaps we might like to clarify why they stick out - If they stick out because of their bombastic, condescending, uncooperative, at times abuse, belittling...etc. I am sure the community can fill in those spaces in 1 second flat. I would suggest management would be be served by asking the above! However, If you are asking for the most helpful, wow that's the hard one as there are very few of them! I do have one suggestion for the most helpful and most experienced and most productive and still has common sense. Scott Vincent Untz wrote:

Le jeudi 13 août 2009, à 01:30 +0200, Henne Vogelsang a écrit :

...

Name 10 Novell Employees that really stick out in the openSUSE Project.

01 _Johannes Meixner__________________ 02 ___________________ 03 ___________________ 04 ___________________ 05 ___________________ 06 ___________________ 07 ___________________ 08 ___________________ 09 ___________________ 10 ___________________

Whoever gets the most right (first) gets a openSUSE goodie pack hand selected by me. I even throw in something from my personal stash of historic openSUSE goodies! So lets see if you can guess who :)

Can everybody participate to that game? :-)

Vincent

Hi, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Henne Vogelsang [08-12-09 19:30]:

...

i will start to kick the Project one.

Does this mean that you no longer are OverLooker of the mail lists?

Nope, I will still be ml-admin :)

...

So all in all exiting news. I would like to ask all of you for your support and for a little bit more patience so we can get going :)

And you shall have it :^).

Thanks! :) Henne -- http://www.opensuse.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 August 2009 01:30:16 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

You all wonder who right? Lets make this a little game :)

What the heck is your problem with just posting the list/a wiki page?

Whoever gets the most right (first) gets a openSUSE goodie pack hand selected by me. I even throw in something from my personal stash of

I am about to post the list to end this silly 'game'... Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 August 2009 06:35:46 Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

Lighten up. This 'silly game' is a refreshing change from the mood we've been seeing in the mailing list lately. :-)

No, for me it's just another example of the non-open communication of some people in this project - like with the shortened maintenance lifetime. Those infos are going to be public anyway - does there have to be confusion everytime and an "Eiertanz"/collective walking around the building first? Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 August 2009 10:15:42 Karsten König wrote:

So imho the shortenend maintenance thing would have been a better place to once again point out this lack of proper communication.

Let me add another example: ppc support. There has been no openSUSE 11.2 milestone release until now with ppc build/ISOs. From IRC project meeting: <michl> we (=Novell internal) don't plan to do ppc for 11.2 Why has this been not communicated properly if the decision has been made? Just because of fear that SUSE Enterprise customers could be confused? :-) Atm people will not have chance to stand in/be surprised at time of release. Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Peter Czanik wrote: ...

...

Let me add another example: ppc support. There has been no openSUSE 11.2 milestone release until now with ppc build/ISOs. From IRC project meeting:

<michl> we (=Novell internal) don't plan to do ppc for 11.2

Why has this been not communicated properly if the decision has been made? Just because of fear that SUSE Enterprise customers could be confused? :-)

Ooops. This was asked numerous times on -ppc and -factory with no answer :-( What is the reasoning behind it?

Yes, great :-(( - what a way to discover this. Please can we have a bit more of an explanation? How definite is this decision? I am deeply disappointed! Thanks, Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Michael Loeffler wrote: ...

...

...

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<michl> we (=Novell internal) don't plan to do ppc for 11.2 ... Main reason gives the openSUSE statistics page [1] the number for ppc installations: ppc 0,3%

Well, given that this is an accurate cookie count for 11.1 installations (that's how I interpret that part of the page [1]?) I'd concede the point that it's not exactly massively popular. 4 of those are machines mine, anyway...

...

How definite is this decision? We welcome and support anyone who wants to maintain and create the ppc distribution for openSUSE but Novell won't maintain and create it anymore for openSUSE.

I wish I could reliably find the time to do more than just testing and bug reports, but my work load counts me out, especially for q3/q4 2009. Is anyone able to step forward? I assume some help would be forthcoming to set things up (in OBS?)

...

I am deeply disappointed!

That's still true :( - I'm disappointed as much by the less-than-transparent decision processes and the off-the-cuff "announcement" as the fact itself. Are any of these three endorsed by the board?

[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

-- Cheers Richard (MQ) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2009-08-14 at 01:31 +0200, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:

Now, communications and transparency are a different question and that is something we as a project (openSUSE) and we as a contributor (Novell) need to keep working on. That's why this very list is so important for me. And why I'll end with a shameless plug for http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Conf_2009 :-)

Gerald

Ahh Gerald Gerald Gerald. There's nothing shameless about that conference. It is *THE* EVENT OF THE YEAR! :-) Looking forward to seeing you there. -- Bryen Yunashko openSUSE Board Member GNOME-A11y Team Member www.bryen.com (Personal Blog) www.planet-a11y.net (Feed aggregator of the Accessibility Community) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hello, 2009-08-13 18:07 keltezéssel, Michael Loeffler írta:

Main reason gives the openSUSE statistics page [1] the number for ppc installations: ppc 0,3%

Two of those are my machines. Not a huge number, but openSUSE was (is) still the best distro for PPC, with very kind help from Olaf, not found at any other large distro.

...

How definite is this decision?

We welcome and support anyone who wants to maintain and create the ppc distribution for openSUSE but Novell won't maintain and create it anymore for openSUSE.

Now, that my second son is also 4+ months old, I have again some time to do testing, but was disappointed to find, that the last factory sync is from 22nd of July, more than three weeks old. The communication of this, or rather the lack of it is really very ugly, I hope, this isn't what we have to expect from the openSUSE project... Bye, CzP

Best M

...

I am deeply disappointed!

Thanks, Richard (MQ)

[1] http://en.opensuse.org/Statistics

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Am Donnerstag 13 August 2009 schrieb Peter Czanik:

Now, that my second son is also 4+ months old, I have again some time to do testing, but was disappointed to find, that the last factory sync is from 22nd of July, more than three weeks old. The communication of this, The last factory sync depends on things building in the build service. And without anyone checking, this can easily happen. But factory for ppc is in no way disabled, it just lacks any kind of man power to verify, test and fix it. If you want to do so, just go ahead and do submitrequest to openSUSE:Factory just as others do for arm.

Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hello, 2009-08-19 16:44 keltezéssel, Stephan Kulow írta:

Am Donnerstag 13 August 2009 schrieb Peter Czanik:

...

Now, that my second son is also 4+ months old, I have again some time to do testing, but was disappointed to find, that the last factory sync is from 22nd of July, more than three weeks old. The communication of this,

OK, today saw a new factory sync for ppc.

Wow, thanks for the great news! I also added the PPC list to the CC. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

2009-08-21 14:35 keltezéssel, Peter Czanik írta:

...

OK, today saw a new factory sync for ppc.

I'm trying to install it right now. Installation hang already a couple of times just in the middle. It's a kind of difficult to debug anything, as alt+(ctrl)+fX does not work to switch consoles, not even in text mode. Is it expected behavior or time to write a bugreport? (I don't have an x86 installer to check it ATM). The Alt key works OK, I use keyboard shortcuts all the time...

OK, once installed from a local mirror instead of powerpc.opensuse.org, installation finished successfully on my Pegasos PPC machine. Not counting this console switching problem, the PPC port seems to be all right. Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Am 14.08.2009 14:12, schrieb Karsten König:

Btw the same applies to the support cycle thing, but it looks like Dirk Müller tries to rally people here to get people take over some of the workload.

That is most likely not to expand the support cycle but to lower Novell's workload. If that's not the case and we are about to expand the support cycle if "enough" contribution comes from the community for updates please tell us as that would be a good move. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

Hi, Stephan Binner wrote:

for me it's just another example of the non-open communication of some people in this project

Dude we two have a long history with lots of communication. Which was always pretty straight forward and open. So to honor this history let me be open with you: Just shut it, don't be this obnoxious pain that spoils the fun for everybody. We are not done with the list yet and in the meantime i want to play this game. So hush k'? :) Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 August 2009 06:18:20 Stephan Binner wrote:

I am about to post the list to end this silly 'game'...

Said to be "not done yet" but anyway: http://en.opensuse.org/Multipliers Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Donnerstag 13 August 2009 12:19:13 Henne Vogelsang wrote: Heyho,

I moved it to the right name and we work on it during the day. Once its finished and correct we let everybody know.

I am pretty happy to let you know the solution of the miracle, find it here: http://en.opensuse.org/index.php?title=Community_Multiplier_Team But please let me point out that beside this amazing list of highly motivated, smart and cool people there are much more here in Novell who work hard for openSUSE. It would be wrong to underestimate their contribution! And the more fun the project is the more people will jump in, in Novell as well as outside. Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 August 2009 15:20:11 Carlos Goncalves wrote:

On Thursday 13 August 2009 00:30:16 Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

You all wonder who right? Lets make this a little game :)

Name 10 Novell Employees that really stick out in the openSUSE Project.

01 Klaas Freitag 02 Henne Vogelsang 03 Stephan Kulow 04 Will Stephenson 05 Andreas Jaeger

Thanks for the honours ;) I'm not part of that team. I'm dedicated for openSUSE but not as part of engineering - I work in product management ("openSUSE Program manager" is my title). I'm looking forward to work closely together with the team, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org} Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

In any has worked out the outrageous interpersonal issues in this 90's Model has cause in the work-face - let that by done in private alpha096@virginbroadband.com.au wrote:

(Warning! The Post Below is long and contains High levels of English that cannot be simplified in construction nor theme)

Roland, I have Posted at this level to hopefully start a dialogue about development models. Others who have been in a software development role for a long time, will understand why I have introduced the topic now.

I will refer to the word 'me', on behalf of those who have seen various development models over the years.

I hope the discussion will be fruitful.

Is there a division of work between the Systems Analyst and the Programer, or are you still using the 1990's Model, to combine the roles into one person? This may be a strange question to some, but it goes to the heart of production of software that is tecknocratically based in design and function.

I can answer my own question very quickly from thousands of miles away, as it is clear you are still maintaining the Systems Analyst and Programer being the one person, and have the dual responsibility.

This certainly does reduce numbers of staff, but it was clear in the 90's, that is was fundamentally flawed.

It would be a bit like combining the matre de of a restaurant with the head chef. The food would be technically very good, but there would be little on the menu and the service to the customers would fail badly.

There is an innate difference between usability and functionality; and tecknobility that always wins.

It is not possible to separate the code cutter from the designer, although around the world we tried very hard to do this in the 90's. We all saw software that could do many things, but no one could or would use it, as the interface was not designed around the user. Here I am excluding myself as a user, and everyone who reads this must do the same. We are so boged down with the perspective that, we cannot make a change to the software design because of a technical issue. The user just wants software to work and follow simple logic, but the code cutter puts the breaks on an idea or concept in the first place, because of a technical issue.

Lets have a look at a simple example. We all know that once we commit any service driven application in Yast, we cannot stop the process by clicking on the Cancel button.

Have a quick look at the following bugs and the tecknocratic response to a common sense problem we have all had. I have excluded my own bug report that precipitated the following bugs and dialogue.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=442173 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=489077

The issue is simple, the code cutter says WONTFIX, because its technically 'impossible' or 'too hard' yet the consent is fundamentally logical to the extreme.

I the code-cutter, WONTFIX, something that a user find simple logic in.

How do we explain to a user they cannot use the Cancel Button, because it wont work and stop a Yast Process that hangs or misbehaves.

No user is interested in tecknobabel, the button says cancel, and they want to cancel a misbehaving or hung process in Yast.

The chef is dictating what the customer can eat at the restaurant.

The whole usability of the project is driven by the programmer, not the analyst.

The software is created and changed because of technical reasons, not functional user requirement or simple common sense logic.

The role of the Analyst/Programer always opts for the technical change or solution.

The users logic has nothing to do with the software's design.

The user hates the software because it does not make sense to them, and they don't buy it or want to use it.

The CEO's, Private Secretary cannot or hates using the software, and his/her work is delayed resulting in the CEO dismissing its possible deployment until such time as it will.

Separate the Business Analyst from the Programer and you will create world class software, that people love and want to use and dump the 1990's Model of combining the roles into one indivisible position.

Scott

Roland Haidl wrote:

...

Hi,

this is my first public message to openSUSE project, and that means first I'd like to introduce myself: My name is Roland Haidl aka rhaidl, and I started to work in SUSE nearly ten years ago. In that time I managed the SUSE documentation, usability, design etc. After Novell having bought SUSE I took over several other management task.

Now, while Novell/OPS engineering adopted to a new strategy regarding openSUSE, we decided that the people, who Novell dedicated to work in the openSUSE project, come under my responsibility.

For me that is awesome and something new - as it is in general. Why, since we already had Novell people working for openSUSE in the past? Well, the new thing that with this step Novell decided to intensify its openSUSE sponsorship. Now we have a group of people that is exclusively dedicated to the openSUSE project.

It is not longer the "when time is left, please work in the openSUSE project" thing we often had before, we now have the singular situation to have a team of more than 10 experts in Novell to only work on openSUSE community topics. This is the Novell "openSUSE Team", and it is there to be a part of the community and make it easier for people to join in, enjoy and contribute.

We (speaking as part of the Novell management) learned to trust the community, and, as a result of this, want to support the project even more. For proof let's see how the team will work.

Of course the team also has reponsibilities, that is basically the openSUSE distribution and the healthy growth of the project. Both challenges will and can only be done in a strong community with YOU and I hope you appreciate the existance of the new team as much as I do.

The people working in the team are all well known since they already worked a lot in the community. I leave it up to the team to introduce itself. As the lead of the team we nominated Klaas Freitag, who is an experienced manager on the one hand and a community guy on the other. Henne Vogelsang takes over the role as project manager openSUSE, and Stephan Kulow will continue to be the release manager for the next openSUSE distribution.

Best, Roland