Dne St 18. dubna 2012 20:02:14 Bruno Friedmann napsal(a):

On Wednesday 18 April 2012 17.54:43 Petr Tesarik wrote:

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Moving this topic to the opensuse-project mailing list.

Dne St 18. dubna 2012 14:23:20 Hendrik Vogelsang napsal(a):

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Hey,

oh boy...

On 04/18/2012 01:27 PM, Lars Müller wrote:

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- try to push openSUSE to a more userfriendly level

[...]

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Therefore I suggest we offer each time we release a SUSE Linux Enterprise version (GA or SP) a code stream of openSUSE

You really have to explain this one to me. Why do you think that, for instance, SLE-11-SP2 is more userfriendly to the average user than openSUSE 12.1?

Or do you "just" think that the openSUSE release cycle is to short?

We should make our minds once and forever. Either make openSUSE releases less often and maintain them for longer, or make a real rolling distro.

It's a hard decision, but I believe we can't pretend we can do both, or any reasonable compromise. Keep in mind that a true rolling distro must not break things on a running system.

My two cents, Petr Tesarik

Petr and what was the first source Perhaps a link to the web archive, could help to understand the context. what why etc ...

OK, it started on an internal SUSE list, so I can't give a link. Sorry. In short, Lars was not quite happy about the amount of work that is required from an admin after a version upgrade. I can confirm that upgrading a customized system so that users don't have to change their habits too much is ... a challenge, at least. But I'm not sure that supporting each (or a selected) openSUSE release for longer time is an appropriate solution. We surely don't have resources to support more code streams in parallel. I know about the Evergreen project, but I doubt it can deliver all (or at least all ciritical) security fixes for, say, 5 years. I believe that a single rolling distro that gets all the latest stuff, but in a way that doesn't break existing installations would be a better way to tackle the initial issue. Now, Greg's attempt was not a real rolling distro, because AFAIK it didn't move smoothely from openSUSE 11.4 to openSUSE 12.1 (and so on). Or do we disagree about the problem statement in the first place? Petr Tesarik -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Dne St 18. dubna 2012 22:36:25 Patrick Shanahan napsal(a):

* Petr Tesarik [04-18-12 16:28]:

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Now, Greg's attempt was not a real rolling distro, because AFAIK it didn't move smoothely from openSUSE 11.4 to openSUSE 12.1 (and so on).

[...] I have a very highly configured system and dreaded system version changes but no more and am considering moving my servers to Tumbleweed from evergreen.

That's very good news. Maybe I should give Tumbleweed another try. BTW Tumbleweed is not oficially part of the openSUSE project, is it? Petr -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

Petr Tesarik - 22:27 18.04.12 wrote:

Dne St 18. dubna 2012 20:02:14 Bruno Friedmann napsal(a):

...

On Wednesday 18 April 2012 17.54:43 Petr Tesarik wrote:

...

Moving this topic to the opensuse-project mailing list.

Dne St 18. dubna 2012 14:23:20 Hendrik Vogelsang napsal(a):

...

Hey,

oh boy...

On 04/18/2012 01:27 PM, Lars Müller wrote:

...

- try to push openSUSE to a more userfriendly level

[...]

...

Therefore I suggest we offer each time we release a SUSE Linux Enterprise version (GA or SP) a code stream of openSUSE

You really have to explain this one to me. Why do you think that, for instance, SLE-11-SP2 is more userfriendly to the average user than openSUSE 12.1?

Or do you "just" think that the openSUSE release cycle is to short?

We should make our minds once and forever. Either make openSUSE releases less often and maintain them for longer, or make a real rolling distro.

It's a hard decision, but I believe we can't pretend we can do both, or any reasonable compromise. Keep in mind that a true rolling distro must not break things on a running system.

My two cents, Petr Tesarik

Petr and what was the first source Perhaps a link to the web archive, could help to understand the context. what why etc ...

OK, it started on an internal SUSE list, so I can't give a link. Sorry. In short, Lars was not quite happy about the amount of work that is required from an admin after a version upgrade. I can confirm that upgrading a customized system so that users don't have to change their habits too much is ... a challenge, at least.

This was quite missing and not guessable from context, also subject is quite confusing... Anyway, now we know the problem, what was the proposal?

But I'm not sure that supporting each (or a selected) openSUSE release for longer time is an appropriate solution. We surely don't have resources to support more code streams in parallel. I know about the Evergreen project, but I doubt it can deliver all (or at least all ciritical) security fixes for, say, 5 years. I believe that a single rolling distro that gets all the latest stuff, but in a way that doesn't break existing installations would be a better way to tackle the initial issue. Now, Greg's attempt was not a real rolling distro, because AFAIK it didn't move smoothely from openSUSE 11.4 to openSUSE 12.1 (and so on).

Or do we disagree about the problem statement in the first place?

I think we disagree on the problem. I have no troubles keeping up with openSUSE on my server starting with 11.4, continuing with Thumbleweed, migrating to 12.1 Thumbleweed and adding and removing custom repositories... -- Michal Hrusecky -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wednesday, 2012-04-18 at 14:59 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko wrote:

And regarding resources depleted for one versus the other, I think it is a misnomer. Some people enjoy contributing to a rolling-release project and others the formal-release project. Closing one off doesn't automatically assume our resources get doubled in the other area.

No, the people which flavor dissapeared would likely go to another distro that offerred a similar flavor. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk+QobQACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XOsACeIrAzp8+/iW6gGsMxoc9+31d8 rQAAoIzWt1ZyqX6ZnJfOXKdiixARycPB =42Wy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, email: opensuse-project+owner@opensuse.org