[opensuse-project] about the fud speculation thread
Hi First of all Im posting in a separate thread because Ive jsut subscribed to the list, which is a thing I did not want, as I dont see many things get done via mailing lists,and having one more even, meh. But well, since some people asked me and since Ive been reading stuff in the lists.opensuse.org, here I am. I know you people are going to love, because Im a lovable person. But lets get to the point. Here it goes, and its about mharris post and bad attitude: I dont know what exactly do you want. I cant understand. You always post lots of bad news about Novell, that are based on speculation and I really dont understand how exactly this helps the project. Can you explain how is this helping the project? I fail to see. I dont see any proposal, any action, anything useful coming from those threads, all I see is that it wastes people's time. People that do useful things, that take actions, rea actions, in opensuse. The reason there is always not a single positive result about yours and others threads is that you people are doing it with the sole purpose to "release your stress" by bashing someone, in a topic that will probably get som support from others, even if they dont understand, because the favourite sport of the season, it seems, is to bash novell and opensuse. People like you releasing and posting news like you that pretend to know things like you are rotting the discussions. People that you say that know better, that your news are based on facts known by lawyers. The news you said that are facts like the one saying novell violates gplv2 and should stop distributing linux. Those are facts right? It wasnt speculation, or fud, it was 100% facts right, like if I was looking at the sky and saying it is blue. I know "forget" that, as it is convenient. And if its 100% correct, why not forward it to a suse list and take a shot on novell right? It will be a stress-release activity, people will know me ("I need public attention"), that cant go wrong. People on the list that if they care they probably already know about it, as it is in any lkinux news site. Yeah, sounds like a damn good idea. And now you take it to here, which is a place that Ive heard from pals that IS WORKING. That get things done. Why? To waste people's time in here too? I will be a bit paranoia mode nonsense and ask here: do you want all this damn project to fail as a whole? Your actions seems to indicate exactly that. People cant see other people doing positive things that they need to come right away and bash and criticize them. Its a damn shame. That is when I look at those colaborative projects an think "it will fail". Because nocive people like you can and are successfully disrupting the activities of the project. And you say you would take it to another list? That would be excellent, but I doubt (and bet) you wouldnt take it to another list, because you like the attention it draws over you, it makes you feel special, right? You would never post it to a list for that, because here and in opensuse@opensuse it irritates dar more people right? Of course I dont expect anything different as replies to my email than people complaining about my language or addressing completely different things from my topic in this email, as its the usual, and its even more disappointing... Heck, I dont even think people will address any of the points of this email. Disappointed with mankind. Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Druid wrote: [...] 100% ACK. M.Harris and others, please keep this list free from FUD and spam, we have feed readers and don't need people to forward pathetic /. blah on our mailing-lists. As Druid wrote, nothing productive nor positive comes out of those threads. Never, ever. Just polluting the list and wasting people's time. The opensuse@opensuse.org list is already unusable for anything besides pointless off-topic discussions. So please, let us use *this* list for real work, actions, not blathering. A lot of people babble, a lot of people want this and that, a lot of people criticize but only a very few actually *do* something. And this is a place we'd like to use for exactly that purpose.
Of course I dont expect anything different as replies to my email than people complaining about my language or addressing completely [...]
Hah, you didn't expect this reply ? ;)
cheers
- --
-o) Pascal Bleser http://linux01.gwdg.de/~pbleser/
/\\
On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 17:24 +0200, Pascal Bleser wrote:
Druid wrote: [...]
100% ACK.
M.Harris and others, please keep this list free from FUD and spam, we have feed readers and don't need people to forward pathetic /. blah on our mailing-lists.
As Druid wrote, nothing productive nor positive comes out of those threads. Never, ever. Just polluting the list and wasting people's time.
The opensuse@opensuse.org list is already unusable for anything besides pointless off-topic discussions. So please, let us use *this* list for real work, actions, not blathering.
A lot of people babble, a lot of people want this and that, a lot of people criticize but only a very few actually *do* something. And this is a place we'd like to use for exactly that purpose.
Of course I dont expect anything different as replies to my email than people complaining about my language or addressing completely [...]
Hah, you didn't expect this reply ? ;)
cheers
Amen.
--
"Why can't humans just reboot instead of sleeping, so much wasted cycles" -Zombie Coder.
Jonathan Arsenault -
On Monday 21 May 2007 06:46, Druid wrote:
Hi
First of all Im posting in a separate thread because Ive jsut subscribed to the list, Welcome.
I dont know what exactly do you want. I cant understand. I and others would like an opensuse channel for the discussion of policy and social dogma which fosters communication and understanding for the benefit of the FOSS and opensuse communities.
You always post lots of bad news about Novell, that are based on speculation and I really dont understand how exactly this helps the project. I rarely post bad news regarding Novell. In fact, the only bad news regarding Novell that I can even recall over the last seven months was the M$-Novell deal (viewed by many people in the FOSS community as betrayal) .
Can you explain how is this helping the project? I fail to see. The reason you cannot see it is because you do not wish to see it... the free software movement (open source is only a very small piece) is all about social change, not about the mechanics of distributing software. Open discussion of social policy helps the opensuse-project by helping to achieve a solidarity within *all* of the FOSS community... which includes Novell (at the moment). Novell broke ranks out of fear and paranoia; we must try very hard to maintain a solidarity within FOSS--- if we can do this then *all* of FOSS benefits.
I dont see any proposal, any action, anything useful coming from those threads, all I see is that it wastes people's time. People that do useful things, that take actions, rea actions, in opensuse. The reason there is always not a single positive result about yours and others threads is that you people are doing it with the sole purpose to "release your stress" by bashing someone No. Stress relief and bashing are *not* on the agenda. What is on the agenda? --dismantling the patent system in the United States and around the world... making knowledge and technology (at a marginal cost of zero) freely available around the globe for the benefit of all mankind... fostering world peace through the free exchange of ideas (which no man my own), free dialogue, free technological intercourse, and free "as in freedom" science and technology (of which open source software is a small piece).
People like you releasing and posting news like you that pretend to know things like you are rotting the discussions. People that you say that know better, that your news are based on facts known by lawyers. Well, Eben Moglen does know his stuff. And fortunately for the free software movement the M$ and Novell lawyers failed to include a date detail on their vouchers... for which we are very greatfull. This actually is "good" news for FOSS in general, but also for Novell. I mean this turn of events was shrewd perhaps to the ultimate... Novell gets to stay in business a little longer (leveraged by M$ funding) and yet the dateless vouchers (in conjunction with the GPLv3) prevent further M$ bullying--- returning the FOSS community to a level playing field once again.
The news you said that are facts like the one saying novell violates gplv2 and should stop distributing linux. Those are facts right? It wasnt speculation, or fud, it was 100% facts right, like if I was looking at the sky and saying it is blue. I know "forget" that, as it is convenient. And if its 100% correct, why not forward it to a suse list and take a shot on novell right? I have *never* accused Novell of violating the GPLv2-- never. Also, just because an article that I post may claim that Novell has violated the GPLv2 does not mean that I agree with the article, nor does it imply that I believe everyone else should agree with the article. The reason for the post is to put the article in front of the community and to solicit ideas and comments--- so that the community can sort out the facts from the fiction and have a clear understanding of the issues affecting the community.
It will be a stress-release activity, people will know me ("I need public attention"), Again, I do not need any stress relief, nor do I want personal attention... those things are not important to me. I do care for the free software movement, FOSS, and opensuse... and truth.
And now you take it to here, which is a place that Ive heard from pals that IS WORKING. That get things done. Why? Because another participant suggested it. I did not post here for spite, or attention, or fud, or to cause any distress. I posted here because I was told that this list was the correct venue to post these topics, and I am trying to accommodate the politics of the list server and and am trying to be accommodating to the wishes and sensibilities of the community who use this list. I do not wish to anger anyone, nor do I wish to cause confusion, nor do I wish to waste any valuable time for anyone.
here and in opensuse@opensuse it irritates dar more people right? Again, no. The reason for "here" is because I do not wish to disrupt the technical discussion forum, and because I was advised that this list was the appropriate list.
Of course I dont expect anything different as replies to my email than people complaining about my language or addressing completely different things from my topic in this email, as its the usual, and its even more disappointing... Heck, I dont even think people will address any of the points of this email. Actually, Marcio, I know that you are an intelligent and very talented person... I appreciate your candor (in this post) and I value your input. I read it thoughtfully and have responded sensibly. I appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with you (and others) for the genuine purpose of enhancing FOSS solidarity and establishing good will in the world.
Disappointed with mankind. I too am disappointed with mankind from time to time... but I always maintain hope in the words that one of our U.S. presidents is famous for:
“If we cannot now end our differences, at least we can help make the world safe for diversity; for in the final analysis...we all inhabit this small planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future; and we are all mortal.” ---John F. Kennedy -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Den Monday 21 May 2007 21:46:48 skrev M Harris:
I and others would like an opensuse channel for the discussion of policy and social dogma which fosters communication and understanding for the benefit of the FOSS and opensuse communities.
This suggestion is actually on-topic here, and I support it. I believe it would also help opensuse@ as a support channel if it were support _only_. Some say opensuse-offtopic@ already exists - but it doesn't seem to be listed anywhere? Maybe we could redirect noise there, or create a different list for discussions off-topic on other lists. Policy would be on-topic here if it were constructive discussion about *openSUSE project policy*. Noone in openSUSE has any power over what patent deals Novell make or don't make. So it's irrelevant here. It was very unclear what the point of your original post was, wrt. openSUSE project. A link and a quote?.. did you want to suggest we do something? If your intention was to just inform of us of the news bit it was extremely off-topic on this list. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 21 May 2007 15:15, Martin Schlander wrote:
I and others would like an opensuse channel for the discussion of policy and social dogma which fosters communication and understanding for the benefit of the FOSS and opensuse communities.
This suggestion is actually on-topic here, and I support it. I believe it would also help opensuse@ as a support channel if it were support _only_. Thank you. I hope others will agree.
Policy would be on-topic here if it were constructive discussion about *openSUSE project policy*. Agreed.
It was very unclear what the point of your original post was, wrt. openSUSE project. A link and a quote?.. The purpose of the first post (and there has been only one) was two fold. And before I explain please do not confuse the reasons for "fun" or trifling. I am most sincere, and without mallace.
did you want to suggest we do something? Just be informed. I realize that in any corporate environment (I was an IBMer for 25 years) there is a vast disconnect between management at the wheel (and esp the legal team) and the technical people who spin the rubber tires on the roadway... but there are those in the technical arena who have influence within their own management structures. It is hoped that some of
It was: 1) To experiment with the list a bit, and to see how folks would react to the topic-- ie., to find out whether the post would get blasted out of the water, or whether the article would motivate discussion that would indicate that this type of post would be welcome. The purpose was not to cause trouble, nor was it to irritate anyone--- just to see if Rajko's suggestion would work here. 2) To point the community at (what I believe to be) a trustworthy focal point for breaking news on this topic (Groklaw, for those not familiar) so that opensuse developers (and others) have at least the opportunity to follow the developments of FOSS that affect us all. Again, not to spread FUD, but in an honest and genuine attempt to clear some of the FUD away--- in all sincerity. the free software movement ideals will filter up from the ranks and affect the deal-making of the future at the management level. Regardless of attestation, I am also sure that *some* managers *do* read these lists... whether they post or not. The other thing I am hoping that you do (or help accomplish) is to sponsor this kind of dialogue, as your post indicates you may be willing to do... as we agree... to the extend that the dialogue is constructive and benefits the community. Thank you again for your willingness in this area. -- Kind regards, M Harris <>< --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
Den Monday 21 May 2007 23:55:29 skrev M Harris:
did you want to suggest we do something?
Just be informed.
If you think the openSUSE community is just closing it's eyes and ignoring the issue I think you are very wrong. I'm rather convinced that noone is more informed and follows the issue closer than active openSUSE community members. .. It wouldn't surprise me the least if most hits on boycottnovell.com were SUSE-boxes. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
1) To experiment with the list a bit, and to see how folks would react to the topic-- ie., to find out whether the post would get blasted out of the water, or whether the article would motivate discussion that would indicate that this type of post would be welcome. The purpose was not to cause trouble, nor was it to irritate anyone--- just to see if Rajko's suggestion would work here.
I wonder if you experiment with people in real life too by trying to see how they react to your provocative claims. It sounds unfair to me and I hope it was just a wrong choice. Next time you want to know a community, just become a member of it for some time and see how it works. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
On 5/21/07, M Harris
I rarely post bad news regarding Novell. In fact, the only bad news regarding Novell that I can even recall over the last seven months was the M$-Novell deal (viewed by many people in the FOSS community as betrayal) .
Take a look at http://opensuse.org/FAQ:Novell-MS for a lot of the frequent problems people think there are. If you have any unanswered questions, feel free to join us in #opensuse-fud on Freenode (real channel created for discussion on the deal). Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M$-Novell deal (viewed by many people in the FOSS community as betrayal) .
You are again re-heating this discussion that has already happened to exhaustion, You dont need to inform nobody again. I dont care about your point of view, which is your point of view, and thats why you cited, and put "the community thinks this". You say you want to discuss this issue but all the new syou post are old bullshit that has been discussed to death, you just want to bring it again over and over, generally ading some FUD comment like "yeah, we knew this was goin to happen" "oh, what would you expect, its microsoft" and some other remark just to stress people, for example "viewed by many people in the FOSS community as betrayal". And hyi, we are very aware of any suse news. Much more aware than you, I would say. We already know you are a slashdot fanboy, and what they say its the absolute truth, isnt it...
Can you explain how is this helping the project? I fail to see. The reason you cannot see it is because you do not wish to see it... the free software movement (open source is only a very small piece) is all about social change, not about the mechanics of distributing software. Open
Its EXACTLY about the mechanics of distributing and creating software. Its exactly about. Its just about. ITS ABOUT THAT. Its about software, its about making something useful for people to put in their computers. And more recently people that lack completely skill on doing anything useful with the software *thinks* they need to be leaders and talking bla bla bla about it, because apparently it looks cool. But these people dont understand linux and they like to give random theories about things, which is understandable in this case, because they dont know what they are talking about. The biggest proof this is happening and we have lot of opportunists invading places of development like this is that the people are trying to make policy with linux. All this government and other bullshits...
discussion of social policy helps the opensuse-project by helping to achieve a solidarity within *all* of the FOSS community... which includes Novell (at the moment). Novell broke ranks out of fear and paranoia; we must try very hard to maintain a solidarity within FOSS--- if we can do this then *all* of FOSS benefits.
Your discussion on if its opensource or free software or whatever the shit shows exactly what you have admitted before: which is that you are just agitating a random bla bla bla and not letting people work and develop. You have a profile to join FSF, it seems. I recommend you to go there, because they love discussing. Then you can tell them about the opensoure and free software difference. Be sure to use gnu/linux all the time. Its great because I feel that if we keep discussing slashdot news all the time eventually from all these pile of shit of emails it will eventually grow a new opensuse distribution right? I need to tell all those guys comitting stuff to factory for them to stop that, and come here and help this thread. Here is what everything is going on. Why dont you join greenpeace or a non-govt-organization to bring peace to the world? Now if you can do that and let people that are working in creating linux nowadays, Im sure all FOSS benefits much more.
No. Stress relief and bashing are *not* on the agenda. What is on the agenda? --dismantling the patent system in the United States and around the world... making knowledge and technology (at a marginal cost of zero) freely available around the globe for the benefit of all mankind... fostering world peace through the free exchange of ideas (which no man my own), free dialogue, free technological intercourse, and free "as in freedom" science and technology (of which open source software is a small piece).
vouchers... for which we are very greatfull. This actually is "good" news
Only thing I would be grateful would be if you stopped wasting people's time. I would be forever in debt.
everyone else should agree with the article. The reason for the post is to put the article in front of the community and to solicit ideas and comments--- so that the community can sort out the facts from the fiction and have a clear understanding of the issues affecting the community.
Ah, so people in the community know the news by subscribing to this news? That awsnt know for me. Thanks for explaining. The community can sort facts (and even read linux news, oh yeah, I know it sounds strange but believe me on this one). And they can do that WITHOUT your fud threads, with fud remarks like "novell betrayed the movement *cries*"
It will be a stress-release activity, people will know me ("I need public attention"), Again, I do not need any stress relief, nor do I want personal attention... those things are not important to me. I do care for the free software movement, FOSS, and opensuse... and truth.
If you care about opensuse stop harassing the development
And now you take it to here, which is a place that Ive heard from pals that IS WORKING. That get things done. Why? Because another participant suggested it. I did not post here for spite, or
Then I suggest you to create the opensuse-mharris mailing list. IF somebody suggested, it must be the best thing to do.
list. I do not wish to anger anyone, nor do I wish to cause confusion, nor do I wish to waste any valuable time for anyone.
stop fudding the lists with FUD news tjat everybody can read in a place called "the internet" and you will make me the happiest fella in the planet
Actually, Marcio, I know that you are an intelligent and very talented person... I appreciate your candor (in this post) and I value your input. I
I doubt, as you dont know me. But it would sound cool to end an email with that, Im sure.
read it thoughtfully and have responded sensibly. I appreciate the opportunity to dialogue with you (and others) for the genuine purpose of enhancing FOSS solidarity and establishing good will in the world.
screw solidarity. Stop fucking this project. Marcio --- druid --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-project+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-project+help@opensuse.org
M Harris escribió:
the free software movement (open source is only a very small piece) is all about social change
If you want to help social change you can a) join a non-gov organization to help on your country problems b) visit your favorite church/political party/whatever and organize events to talk about linux, free software etc.. c) teach youth in social risk about the benefits and how to use linux ( as I personally do from time when I can, few times a year) , not about the mechanics of distributing software. it is exaclty about that, about producing a better product that people will be happy to use.
--dismantling the patent system in the United States and around the world... making knowledge and technology (at a marginal cost of zero) freely available around the globe for the benefit of all mankind... fostering world peace through the free exchange of ideas (which no man my own), free dialogue, free technological intercourse, and free "as in freedom" science and technology (of which open source software is a small piece).
Unfortunately the real world does not currently work like that.. and If you want to change that, it is fine and I applaud your efforts. join to "nosoftwarepatents" movement, talk with you congress representative or whatever, but here we produce a linux distribution and this lists are designed for that purpose.
I do care for the free software movement, FOSS, and opensuse... and truth.
if you care about the truth, then stay with the proven facts.
participants (8)
-
Alberto Passalacqua -
Cristian Rodriguez R. -
Druid -
Francis Giannaros -
Jonathan Arsenault -
M Harris -
Martin Schlander -
Pascal Bleser