[opensuse-packaging] Tumbleweed "vendor" question

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[opensuse-packaging] Renaming of...

Greg KH

8 Dec 2010 8 Dec '10

22:49

Ok, I'm going to have a number of questions about packaging stuff and obs while I figure out how Tumbleweed is to properly work. Hopefully this is the correct list for it, if not, please point me in the correct location. Anyway, I have openSUSE:Tumbleweed set up and are trying to figure out both the workflow and how users are going to handle it. I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3. I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate. Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed. Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed. Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening? confused, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

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Patrick Shanahan

8 Dec 8 Dec

22:58

* Greg KH [12-08-10 17:51]:

...

Anyway, I have openSUSE:Tumbleweed set up and are trying to figure out both the workflow and how users are going to handle it.

I am ready, but on 11.2 :^(

...

I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf ## ## EXPERTS ONLY: Per default the solver will not replace packages of ## different vendors, unless you explicitly ask to do so. Setting this ## option to TRUE will disable this vendor check (unless the application ## explicitly re-enables it). Packages will then be considered based on ## repository priority and version only. This may easily damage your system. ## ## CHANGING THE DEFAULT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. ## ## Valid values: boolean ## Default value: false ## # solver.allowVendorChange = false #### Change #### solver.allowVendorChange = true -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

23:04

On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 05:58:39PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

...
I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf

## ## EXPERTS ONLY: Per default the solver will not replace packages of ## different vendors, unless you explicitly ask to do so. Setting this ## option to TRUE will disable this vendor check (unless the application ## explicitly re-enables it). Packages will then be considered based on ## repository priority and version only. This may easily damage your system. ## ## CHANGING THE DEFAULT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. ## ## Valid values: boolean ## Default value: false ## # solver.allowVendorChange = false #### Change #### solver.allowVendorChange = true

Ah. Is this something that we really want to require for people using Tumbleweed? I've seen packages change vendors on 'zypper dup', but this only seems to show up when there are other "normal" updates available at the same time. Why would that time override this option? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan

23:56

* Greg KH [12-08-10 18:07]:

...

...
## ## CHANGING THE DEFAULT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. ## ## Valid values: boolean ## Default value: false ## # solver.allowVendorChange = false #### Change #### solver.allowVendorChange = true

Ah. Is this something that we really want to require for people using Tumbleweed?

I've seen packages change vendors on 'zypper dup', but this only seems to show up when there are other "normal" updates available at the same time. Why would that time override this option?

dunnough :^) but it seems to work for me. Did you try it? but this allows me to use multi-vendors and play semi-bleeding edge where zypper dup (finally) caused problems of a nature similar to your case. I still have *small* problems occasionally but of my own making. Tumbleweed would fit my desires very well. I run a mail/web server and much special configurating. Upgrading to a newer distro is a real PAIN. Minor system downtime is not a problem. When/if it becomes a problem, I will offload the server functions to a secondary machine (lazyiness is the only thing keeping me from doing it now, and *time*). -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

9 Dec 9 Dec

16:11

On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 06:56:14PM -0500, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Greg KH [12-08-10 18:07]:

...
...
## ## CHANGING THE DEFAULT IS NOT RECOMMENDED. ## ## Valid values: boolean ## Default value: false ## # solver.allowVendorChange = false #### Change #### solver.allowVendorChange = true

Ah. Is this something that we really want to require for people using Tumbleweed?

I've seen packages change vendors on 'zypper dup', but this only seems to show up when there are other "normal" updates available at the same time. Why would that time override this option?

dunnough :^) but it seems to work for me. Did you try it?

Yes, now that the 64bit packages are there, it "just works" for me as well, sorry. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg Freemyer

00:41

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Greg KH wrote:

...

Ok, I'm going to have a number of questions about packaging stuff and obs while I figure out how Tumbleweed is to properly work. Hopefully this is the correct list for it, if not, please point me in the correct location.

Anyway, I have openSUSE:Tumbleweed set up and are trying to figure out both the workflow and how users are going to handle it.

I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

confused,

greg k-h --

Are trying from a 32-bit or 64-bit machine? I have a 64-bit machine and you don't seem to have a 64-bit package available. So changing architectures is not automatic. See: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/x86_... vs http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/i586... or am I looking in the wrong place? Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

16:11

On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 07:41:19PM -0500, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Greg KH wrote:

...
Ok, I'm going to have a number of questions about packaging stuff and obs while I figure out how Tumbleweed is to properly work. Hopefully this is the correct list for it, if not, please point me in the correct location.

Anyway, I have openSUSE:Tumbleweed set up and are trying to figure out both the workflow and how users are going to handle it.

I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

confused,

greg k-h --

Are trying from a 32-bit or 64-bit machine?

I have a 64-bit machine and you don't seem to have a 64-bit package available. So changing architectures is not automatic.

See: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/x86_...

vs

http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/openSUSE:/Tumbleweed/standard/i586...

or am I looking in the wrong place?

No, you are looking at the right place, and yes, this was the problem, I was using a 64bit machine. The 64bit packages hadn't gotten copied yet, now that they have, all is well, and it upgrades to the tumbleweed package properly. And yes, I have seen the "change vendor" stuff a lot, but it was always an automatic thing, as it is now as well. Sorry for the noise, and thanks to everyone for the responses. greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Morales Vega

02:52

2010/12/8 Greg KH :

...

I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

I didn't follow all the Tumbleweed thing. There will not be installation medias? People is supposed to install openSUSE "normal" version X and from there pass to Tumbleweed? The possible solutions are: - Create the packages with the same vendor than the main distribution Whatever this makes sense or not depends on how Tumbleweed will exactly work. The discussion was long... a link to the final decision, please? - Set the Tumbleweed repo with a higher priority (lower value) than anything else. This way a "zypper dup" will do the update you expect. Depending on how Tumbleweed works "a higher priority" could mean different things. Once you add the Tumbleweed repo (the full one, not only this 3 package test), will you be able to remove the original main repo? If the original OSS/Non-Oss repos are removed whatever priority you set to the Tumbleweed repo will be higher than "nothing". I mean, the "virtual repository" "(System Packages)", that contains the installed packages that are not available in any configured repo, always has priority infinity (lowest possible). A "zypper dup" does just that, install the packages from the repositories with the higher priority... and will do that even if those packages are older than the installed ones. - zypper dup --from Tumbleweed This will always work, whatever vendor and priorities. If needed, you can specify multiple repositories: "zypper dup --from Packman --from Tumbleweed" (the result depending on Packman and Tumbleweed repo priorities). About "zypper dup", notice that before the 11.3 libzypp/zypper update from (last week?) it was subtle broken. So make sure to have it updated in your tests. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Richard Guenther

10:05

On Thu, 9 Dec 2010, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

2010/12/8 Greg KH :

...
I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

I didn't follow all the Tumbleweed thing. There will not be installation medias? People is supposed to install openSUSE "normal" version X and from there pass to Tumbleweed?

Yes, I think the install needs proper testing so is best left to a release. OTOH I saw tumbleweed as something that would track factory sources (with a delay) and does not build against any other repository. When factory approaches a openSUSE release tumbleweed would naturally sync itself to that release. Thus, do you really want to keep a tumbleweed for each openSUSE release? That wouldn't be exactly like a rolling release but more like a backports repository. So - I really want a Debian testing equivalent for openSUSE (ok, I want a unstable equivalent, but then people might say Factory does provide that). Richard.

Greg KH

16:14

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 11:05:38AM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

OTOH I saw tumbleweed as something that would track factory sources (with a delay) and does not build against any other repository. When factory approaches a openSUSE release tumbleweed would naturally sync itself to that release.

That is my goal for Tumbleweed as well. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

16:12

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 03:52:04AM +0100, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

...

2010/12/8 Greg KH :

...
I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

I didn't follow all the Tumbleweed thing. There will not be installation medias? People is supposed to install openSUSE "normal" version X and from there pass to Tumbleweed?

Yes, that is exactly the expected procedure, tumbleweed will not have install media.

...

About "zypper dup", notice that before the 11.3 libzypp/zypper update from (last week?) it was subtle broken. So make sure to have it updated in your tests.

Yes, I have that version installed, I made sure to keep the 11.3 update channel installed as well. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Ludwig Nussel

08:53

Greg KH wrote:

...

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

Wow, how did you manage to use openSUSE without ever getting into that situation before? :-) Anyways, try # zypper in --from openSUSE_Tumbleweed git-core While I'm in the camp of the vendor stickyness supporters I'd question whether the user interface for this kind of explicit request is optimal. zypper asks for confirmation of the vendor change anyways so it could just offer it right away instead of requiring the user to call zypper again. I'm sure there are bug reports with lengthy discussions about the behavior somewhere though. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

11:13

On Wed, Dec 08, 2010 at 02:49:16PM -0800, Greg KH wrote:

...

Anyway, I have openSUSE:Tumbleweed set up and are trying to figure out both the workflow and how users are going to handle it.

I have it populated with only 3 packages at the moment, and it's building against 11.3.

I added the repo to zypper, but when trying to do an update on a package that I know is newer, I get the following error from zypper: There is an update candidate for 'git', but it is from a different vendor. Use 'zypper install git-1.7.3.2-43.1.i586' to install this candidate.

Now I don't really want to have to have every user do this by hand for each package that gets added to tumbleweed, so how do I get this to be automatically overridden due to the fact that the 'git' package really is newer, and it should be installed.

No, that's not the default. "Tumbleweed" is not offical openSUSE, so it is correct that is has a different vendor.

...

Note, when running 'zypper dup' it says that there is nothing to do, I only get the above message when explicitly asking that git be installed, eventhough git is installed.

'zypper dup' ignores the vendor, it acts like a fresh installation.

...

Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'. See the comments about "vendordir" in /etc/zypp/zypp.conf. (Unfortunately zypper/YaST don't offer a nice interface to list/modify the vendor classes.) Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

16:15

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 12:13:31PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...

...
Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'.

Hm, how could I get my repo to have the same id as the opensuse vendor? Or is that something that I shouldn't be trying to do? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Michael Schroeder

16:22

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 08:15:14AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 12:13:31PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...
...
Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'.

Hm, how could I get my repo to have the same id as the opensuse vendor? Or is that something that I shouldn't be trying to do?

At the current state of the project I don't think it makes sense to use the same id. Cheers, Michael. -- Michael Schroeder mls@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF Markus Rex, HRB 16746 AG Nuernberg main(_){while(_=~getchar())putchar(~_-1/(~(_|32)/13*2-11)*13);} -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

16:27

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 05:22:08PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 08:15:14AM -0800, Greg KH wrote:

...
On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 12:13:31PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...
...
Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'.

Hm, how could I get my repo to have the same id as the opensuse vendor? Or is that something that I shouldn't be trying to do?

At the current state of the project I don't think it makes sense to use the same id.

I agree for the moment, but perhaps in the future? :) I'll wait for now. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Adrian Schröter

16:50

On Thursday 09 December 2010 08:15:14 Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 12:13:31PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...
...
Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'.

Hm, how could I get my repo to have the same id as the opensuse vendor? Or is that something that I shouldn't be trying to do?

When you consider Tumbleweed as save update repository (just larger than the usual default Update repo) using the openSUSE vendor should be fine. If you consider Tumbleweed more something like in the middle of 11.3 and Factory, not really 100% safe for your grandma, you should not use the same vendor. Otherwise the user will not get notificated about a switch of a package and he has no chance to stay on the stable side. This where I still have no clear picture of tumbleweed atm, I thought it is the first (the safe update path), but it seems to me atm it isn't. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

Greg KH

20:16

On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 05:50:30PM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

On Thursday 09 December 2010 08:15:14 Greg KH wrote:

...
On Thu, Dec 09, 2010 at 12:13:31PM +0100, Michael Schroeder wrote:

...
...
Anything I can do to the repo to keep this from happening?

Either configure that the vendor is equivalent to opensuse or use 'zypper dup'.

Hm, how could I get my repo to have the same id as the opensuse vendor? Or is that something that I shouldn't be trying to do?

When you consider Tumbleweed as save update repository (just larger than the usual default Update repo) using the openSUSE vendor should be fine.

If you consider Tumbleweed more something like in the middle of 11.3 and Factory, not really 100% safe for your grandma, you should not use the same vendor. Otherwise the user will not get notificated about a switch of a package and he has no chance to stay on the stable side.

Good point.

...

This where I still have no clear picture of tumbleweed atm, I thought it is the first (the safe update path), but it seems to me atm it isn't.

It's a completly unsafe test at the moment which might break your machine :) But we are working through the issues, give us time to figure it out. Hopefully by the time 11.4 is out we will have a handle on it. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+help@opensuse.org

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Adrian Schröter
Cristian Morales Vega
Greg Freemyer
Greg KH
Ludwig Nussel
Michael Schroeder
Patrick Shanahan
Richard Guenther

[opensuse-packaging] Tumbleweed "vendor" question

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