[opensuse-packaging] Getting rid of /etc/tmpdirs.d
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd. I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d The question is how to create the directories when booting with SysVinit. We have two options: 1) Run /bin/systemd-tmpfiles from systemd to create these 2) Add some shell magic that reads and parses the tmpfiles.d and creates those. Since I see that systemd is already - even if not used by default - required by a couple of packages, I'm going with the first option. This was triggered by a bug in screen where screen did not create the needed directories at install time, they were created only at boot time. I'll fix now all packages - and take care of the %post section as well. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
The question is how to create the directories when booting with SysVinit. We have two options: 1) Run /bin/systemd-tmpfiles from systemd to create these 2) Add some shell magic that reads and parses the tmpfiles.d and creates those.
While shell-free bootup is a major goal of systemd it's a major reason for others to stick with init scripts at all.
Since I see that systemd is already - even if not used by default - required by a couple of packages, I'm going with the first option.
Having already tons of dependencies is a good argument to create even more dependencies? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/22/2011 12:02 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
Not really config files. And we have them already in that location, just duplicated with different semantics.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
I can only take care of files as part of the distribution. Note that even openSUSE 12.1 will not by default read /etc/tmpdirs.d at all unless you use sysvinit.
The question is how to create the directories when booting with SysVinit. We have two options: 1) Run /bin/systemd-tmpfiles from systemd to create these 2) Add some shell magic that reads and parses the tmpfiles.d and creates those.
While shell-free bootup is a major goal of systemd it's a major reason for others to stick with init scripts at all.
Since I see that systemd is already - even if not used by default - required by a couple of packages, I'm going with the first option.
Having already tons of dependencies is a good argument to create even more dependencies?
No, an argument to not reinvent the wheel a second time but instead use one tool for all cases, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:02 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
Not really config files. And we have them already in that location, just duplicated with different semantics.
Having them already in wrong location doesn't makes that location better.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
I can only take care of files as part of the distribution. Note that even openSUSE 12.1 will not by default read /etc/tmpdirs.d at all unless you use sysvinit.
Saying this you can even drop sysvinit support right now. No need to break it step by step.
The question is how to create the directories when booting with SysVinit. We have two options: 1) Run /bin/systemd-tmpfiles from systemd to create these 2) Add some shell magic that reads and parses the tmpfiles.d and creates those.
While shell-free bootup is a major goal of systemd it's a major reason for others to stick with init scripts at all.
Since I see that systemd is already - even if not used by default - required by a couple of packages, I'm going with the first option.
Having already tons of dependencies is a good argument to create even more dependencies?
No, an argument to not reinvent the wheel a second time but instead use one tool for all cases,
IMHO the second wheel is the reinvented one not the first one. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/22/2011 01:42 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:02 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
Not really config files. And we have them already in that location, just duplicated with different semantics.
Having them already in wrong location doesn't makes that location better.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
I can only take care of files as part of the distribution. Note that even openSUSE 12.1 will not by default read /etc/tmpdirs.d at all unless you use sysvinit.
Saying this you can even drop sysvinit support right now. No need to break it step by step.
My change will not break SysVinit at all - if it does, it would be wrong. Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 01:42 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:02 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
Not really config files. And we have them already in that location, just duplicated with different semantics.
Having them already in wrong location doesn't makes that location better.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
I can only take care of files as part of the distribution. Note that even openSUSE 12.1 will not by default read /etc/tmpdirs.d at all unless you use sysvinit.
Saying this you can even drop sysvinit support right now. No need to break it step by step.
My change will not break SysVinit at all - if it does, it would be wrong.
Don't forget on the other tmpfs thread you said yesterday something like "sysvinit is still needed as fallback". What is this fallback solution worth if it heavily depends on the thing from which we want to fall back in case of trouble. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/22/2011 04:31 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 01:42 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
On 11/22/2011 12:02 PM, Ruediger Meier wrote:
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
Moving config files from /etc to /usr/lib?
Not really config files. And we have them already in that location, just duplicated with different semantics.
Having them already in wrong location doesn't makes that location better.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
How can you ensure that? We don't know about files which have been added by admins.
I can only take care of files as part of the distribution. Note that even openSUSE 12.1 will not by default read /etc/tmpdirs.d at all unless you use sysvinit.
Saying this you can even drop sysvinit support right now. No need to break it step by step.
My change will not break SysVinit at all - if it does, it would be wrong.
Don't forget on the other tmpfs thread you said yesterday something like "sysvinit is still needed as fallback". What is this fallback solution worth if it heavily depends on the thing from which we want to fall back in case of trouble.
You can use the helper from systemd on its own without using all of systemd... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
I suggest to drop /etc/tmpdirs.d completely (after taking care that the files are listed in tmpfiles.d
The question is how to create the directories when booting with SysVinit. We have two options: 1) Run /bin/systemd-tmpfiles from systemd to create these 2) Add some shell magic that reads and parses the tmpfiles.d and creates those.
I vote for the former. Note however that this may contradict or obsolete some sysconfig settings such as TMP_DIRS_TO_CLEAR. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
I'm not thrilled. I know that systemd doesn't particularly care for backward compatibility, but perhaps we should? Why in /usr (what's with our old wish to have /usr on NFS?)? And /usr/lib/? Huh. For sysvinit they are bash scripts, so the location might be debatable, but for systemd they most definitely _are_ config files, so they belong to /etc. Ciao, Michael. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 22 November 2011, Michael Matz wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
I'm not thrilled. I know that systemd doesn't particularly care for backward compatibility, but perhaps we should? Why in /usr (what's with our old wish to have /usr on NFS?)? And /usr/lib/? Huh. For sysvinit they are bash scripts, so the location might be debatable,
It doesn't matter that it "looks like" shell code. They are still non executable config files like many other shell, lisp or whatever config files in /etc.
but for systemd they most definitely _are_ config files, so they belong to /etc.
IMO it's ok to have the hardcoded upstream (systemd) idea of tmpdirs in /usr. But if other packages or admins ever need to add something then it should belong to /etc. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
On 11/22/2011 03:45 PM, Michael Matz wrote:
Hi,
On Tue, 22 Nov 2011, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
We currently use both /etc/tmpdirs.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - the first for SysVinit, the second for systemd.
I'm not thrilled. I know that systemd doesn't particularly care for backward compatibility, but perhaps we should? Why in /usr (what's with our old wish to have /usr on NFS?)? And /usr/lib/? Huh. For sysvinit they are bash scripts, so the location might be debatable, but for systemd they most definitely _are_ config files, so they belong to /etc.
Ciao, Michael.
/usr on NFS works just fine with openSUSE 12.1 since we mount /usr in the initrd. I prefer to not change the upstream way of doing it, so if you like to change it, talk with the systemd team. Note that with systemd there are both /etc/tmpfiles.d and /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d - and they are config files in the way that if you place it in /etc, it shadows the one in /usr/lib/tmpfiles.d. So, just copy it to /etc and change it Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn,Jennifer Guild,Felix Imendörffer,HRB16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-packaging+owner@opensuse.org
participants (4)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Ludwig Nussel -
Michael Matz -
Ruediger Meier