[opensuse-marketing] openSUSE Main Page redesign

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Re: [opensuse-marketing] openSUSE...

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier

10 Sep 2008 10 Sep '08

00:16

Hi all, A bit ago, Robert Lihm and Andreas Demmer put together a new design for the openSUSE Web page. We'd like to get some comments on this redesign *now* while it's in the design phase, as opposed to a bunch of commentary *after* it's deployed. :-) (Or, to put it another way, "speak now...") The new design is here: http://webtest.opensuse.org/en/ Some of the text is just placeholder text, so there's no need to worry right now about the content on the page (unless you have a desire to pitch in with that) -- but we do need some thought about the design. Two good comments made during the meeting in IRC: * The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom. * It's necessary to scroll to get to a lot of the content. I don't think this is entirely avoidable, but maybe it'd be possible to minimize this? I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page? Other thoughts? Overall, I'm greatly impressed with this design. Andreas and Robert - looks great! Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager jzb@zonker.net http://zonker.opensuse.org/ http://blogs.zdnet.com/community/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

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Magnus Boman

10 Sep 10 Sep

00:33

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Hi all,

A bit ago, Robert Lihm and Andreas Demmer put together a new design for the openSUSE Web page. We'd like to get some comments on this redesign *now* while it's in the design phase, as opposed to a bunch of commentary *after* it's deployed. :-) (Or, to put it another way, "speak now...")

The new design is here:

http://webtest.opensuse.org/en/

Some of the text is just placeholder text, so there's no need to worry right now about the content on the page (unless you have a desire to pitch in with that) -- but we do need some thought about the design.

Two good comments made during the meeting in IRC:

* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom. * It's necessary to scroll to get to a lot of the content. I don't think this is entirely avoidable, but maybe it'd be possible to minimize this?

I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page?

Other thoughts?

I'd like to see "Help & Support" moved up above "News & Events", just to make it as quick and easy as possible to find it. One other thing, which might only come in handy once every 6-8 months, would be to make sure that we can put "New openSUSE release" in a very prominent place on the page.

...

Overall, I'm greatly impressed with this design. Andreas and Robert - looks great!

Yes, it looks great. Fantastic work Robert and Andreas!

...

Best,

Zonker

Cheers, Magnus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

06:28

Magnus Boman schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...

I'd like to see "Help & Support" moved up above "News & Events", just to make it as quick and easy as possible to find it.

This should be very easy to do. @Robert: Do you agree?

...

One other thing, which might only come in handy once every 6-8 months, would be to make sure that we can put "New openSUSE release" in a very prominent place on the page.

We already thought of that! The text below the grey bar can be edited with an tiny WYSIWYG editor in the backend. So when a new release is available, it can easily be featured there.

...

Yes, it looks great. Fantastic work Robert and Andreas!

Thx alot! :-) -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Marko Jung

11:12

Hi. Magnus Boman schrieb:

...

I'd like to see "Help & Support" moved up above "News & Events", just to make it as quick and easy as possible to find it.

Yes. I think "Help & Support" is the beneath the downloads the most important thing to our users. Marko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Kevin Dupuy

00:52

Overall, I really like this page in it's current form, to be honest. It's a great improvement. On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

I think they work at the bottom. The three major links are already at the top, so those are kinda "extra". And as Magnus said, I believe that the main top grey part (where the three links are at the top) can be changed to a promo for new releases during their launch. The three links can be moved to the bottom of that section for that temporary ad. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy - openSUSE Member Public Mail: Meet Bob Barr - Libertarian for President - http://www.BobBarr2008.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Bryen

01:18

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 19:52 -0500, Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...

Overall, I really like this page in it's current form, to be honest. It's a great improvement.

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...
* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

I think they work at the bottom. The three major links are already at the top, so those are kinda "extra".

And as Magnus said, I believe that the main top grey part (where the three links are at the top) can be changed to a promo for new releases during their launch. The three links can be moved to the bottom of that section for that temporary ad. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy - openSUSE Member Public Mail: Meet Bob Barr - Libertarian for President - http://www.BobBarr2008.com/

Overall, I would assume that the cool openSUSE logo (looks like a peel-on sticker) would be replaced by the openSUSE Countdown box we used in 11.0 as we get closer to 11.1? Couple of other things I'm noticing now as I look closer at the page. (Hey, Andreas said he likes criticism!) * I finally noticed the search bar. Guess that shows it isn't easy for some of us to find it. * I used FireFox's zoom function to see the page better (hence the above discovery) and after just 2-3 zoom punches, the Create It button started to get cut off. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Tehmasp Chaudhri

01:40

The new page is great. I like the new addition of the drop down in the search bar. Cool. I have a comment though - take it or leave it and it may be nitpicking - but the only thing I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible). Thanks, Tehmasp On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:18 -0500, Bryen wrote:

...

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 19:52 -0500, Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...
Overall, I really like this page in it's current form, to be honest. It's a great improvement.

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...
* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

I think they work at the bottom. The three major links are already at the top, so those are kinda "extra".

And as Magnus said, I believe that the main top grey part (where the three links are at the top) can be changed to a promo for new releases during their launch. The three links can be moved to the bottom of that section for that temporary ad. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy - openSUSE Member Public Mail: Meet Bob Barr - Libertarian for President - http://www.BobBarr2008.com/

Overall, I would assume that the cool openSUSE logo (looks like a peel-on sticker) would be replaced by the openSUSE Countdown box we used in 11.0 as we get closer to 11.1?

Couple of other things I'm noticing now as I look closer at the page. (Hey, Andreas said he likes criticism!)

* I finally noticed the search bar. Guess that shows it isn't easy for some of us to find it.

* I used FireFox's zoom function to see the page better (hence the above discovery) and after just 2-3 zoom punches, the Create It button started to get cut off.

Bryen

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

¡ElCheVive!

01:45

Hi, I dislike the search box on the top of the page, maybe centralized below the Get/Discover/Create it (his part can be reduced slightly to leave the search box in the middle to bottom of page, at least for 1024x768 monitors) but, it was a great improvement! regards, Luiz Fernando 2008/9/9 Tehmasp Chaudhri :

...

The new page is great. I like the new addition of the drop down in the search bar. Cool.

I have a comment though - take it or leave it and it may be nitpicking - but the only thing I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible).

Thanks, Tehmasp

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:18 -0500, Bryen wrote:

...
On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 19:52 -0500, Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...
Overall, I really like this page in it's current form, to be honest. It's a great improvement.

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...
* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

I think they work at the bottom. The three major links are already at the top, so those are kinda "extra".

And as Magnus said, I believe that the main top grey part (where the three links are at the top) can be changed to a promo for new releases during their launch. The three links can be moved to the bottom of that section for that temporary ad. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy - openSUSE Member Public Mail: Meet Bob Barr - Libertarian for President - http://www.BobBarr2008.com/

Overall, I would assume that the cool openSUSE logo (looks like a peel-on sticker) would be replaced by the openSUSE Countdown box we used in 11.0 as we get closer to 11.1?

Couple of other things I'm noticing now as I look closer at the page. (Hey, Andreas said he likes criticism!)

* I finally noticed the search bar. Guess that shows it isn't easy for some of us to find it.

* I used FireFox's zoom function to see the page better (hence the above discovery) and after just 2-3 zoom punches, the Create It button started to get cut off.

Bryen

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

06:43

¡ElCheVive! schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...

I dislike the search box on the top of the page, maybe centralized below the Get/Discover/Create it (his part can be reduced slightly to leave the search box in the middle to bottom of page, at least for 1024x768 monitors)

The searchbox position does not only make make the page look organic, it is also a learned habit to have the searchbox on the upper right corner of the website. Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Andreas Demmer

06:41

Tehmasp Chaudhri schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...

I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible).

Robert and me discussed over this a lot where I took your argumentation. But we saw very quickly that the button looked oddly faked when we removed the reflections over the letters only (and the perspective distortion). So we came out in seeing the sticker as what it is: A perspective sticker. If someone cannot read "openSUSE", the text below has the name again: Bold and green. Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Satoru Matsumoto

11 Sep 11 Sep

04:14

Andreas Demmer wrote:

...

Tehmasp Chaudhri schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...
I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible).

Robert and me discussed over this a lot where I took your argumentation. But we saw very quickly that the button looked oddly faked when we removed the reflections over the letters only (and the perspective distortion).

So we came out in seeing the sticker as what it is: A perspective sticker. If someone cannot read "openSUSE", the text below has the name again: Bold and green.

Have you already read "Artwork:Brand" page on the wiki? In the "Things to Avoid" section, there is a sentence: * Do not stretch, skew the logo. Always keep the aspect ratio intact when resizing. http://en.opensuse.org/Artwork:Brand#Things_to_Avoid I also think the sticker design is cool, but I'm afraid the design is inconsistent with the article of the "Things to Avoid". Is there no problem? Regards, -- _/_/_/ To be Happy! _/_/_/ _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto _/_/ _/ helios_reds@gmx.net _/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Tehmasp Chaudhri

13:45

Yeah, good point. Andreas, I really think it's a bad idea customizing the logo/name and not having it perfectly clear. What would Novell say or OS community members that work for Novell? Tehmasp On Thu, 2008-09-11 at 13:14 +0900, Satoru Matsumoto wrote:

...

Andreas Demmer wrote:

...
Tehmasp Chaudhri schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...
I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible).

Robert and me discussed over this a lot where I took your argumentation. But we saw very quickly that the button looked oddly faked when we removed the reflections over the letters only (and the perspective distortion).

So we came out in seeing the sticker as what it is: A perspective sticker. If someone cannot read "openSUSE", the text below has the name again: Bold and green.

Have you already read "Artwork:Brand" page on the wiki? In the "Things to Avoid" section, there is a sentence:

* Do not stretch, skew the logo. Always keep the aspect ratio intact when resizing.

http://en.opensuse.org/Artwork:Brand#Things_to_Avoid

I also think the sticker design is cool, but I'm afraid the design is inconsistent with the article of the "Things to Avoid". Is there no problem?

Regards,

-- _/_/_/ To be Happy! _/_/_/ _/_/ Satoru Matsumoto _/_/ _/ helios_reds@gmx.net _/

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Michael Loeffler

10 Sep 10 Sep

09:04

On Wednesday 10 September 2008, Kevin Dupuy wrote:

...

Overall, I really like this page in it's current form, to be honest. It's a great improvement.

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...
* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

I think they work at the bottom. The three major links are already at the top, so those are kinda "extra". +1 all bottom links are already somewhere above. So, bottom is the right place imo. M

And as Magnus said, I believe that the main top grey part (where the three links are at the top) can be changed to a promo for new releases during their launch. The three links can be moved to the bottom of that section for that temporary ad. -- Kevin "Yo" Dupuy - openSUSE Member Public Mail: Meet Bob Barr - Libertarian for President - http://www.BobBarr2008.com/

-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Bryen

00:52

On Tue, 2008-09-09 at 20:16 -0400, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Hi all,

A bit ago, Robert Lihm and Andreas Demmer put together a new design for the openSUSE Web page. We'd like to get some comments on this redesign *now* while it's in the design phase, as opposed to a bunch of commentary *after* it's deployed. :-) (Or, to put it another way, "speak now...")

The new design is here:

http://webtest.opensuse.org/en/

Some of the text is just placeholder text, so there's no need to worry right now about the content on the page (unless you have a desire to pitch in with that) -- but we do need some thought about the design.

Two good comments made during the meeting in IRC:

* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom. * It's necessary to scroll to get to a lot of the content. I don't think this is entirely avoidable, but maybe it'd be possible to minimize this?

I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page?

Other thoughts?

Overall, I'm greatly impressed with this design. Andreas and Robert - looks great!

Best,

Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager

Some of us chatted after the meeting with Andreas and discussed a few points. * To increase accessibility to page and basically send out a "We care" message, Andreas will add an option to switch to high-contrast view. * Though I didn't get into this discussion, I think it was generally agreed that the language option should be placed at the top of the page, rather than the bottom. Bryen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Adi Nugroho

03:34

On Wednesday 10 September 2008 08:16:01 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

The new design is here:

http://webtest.opensuse.org/en/

Other thoughts?

I am using notebook with 1280x800 resolution. Therefore, for sure I would prefer the old design : http://en.opensuse.org/ It is fluid width (variable width). It is more readable, It also has 3 column for easy navigation. Less scrolling. In one word.... MODERN. But maybe user with 800x600 resolution or less would prefer the new design with fixed width and 2 column design. -- Salam, Adi Nugroho - http://adi.internux.co.id/ iNterNUX --- http://www.internux.net.id/ Jalan Dr. Sam Ratulangi No. 53J Makassar Tel. +62-411-834690 Fax. +62-411-834691 CDMA:+62-411-6109535 GSM:+62-816-27-9193 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

06:25

Adi Nugroho schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...

I am using notebook with 1280x800 resolution. Therefore, for sure I would prefer the old design : http://en.opensuse.org/ It is fluid width (variable width). It is more readable, It also has 3 column for easy navigation. Less scrolling.

The old design had no additional information for new users, which do not know what openSUSE is. So we decided to put more text in it. New users should be picked up at the front door. But more text needs narrower columns, that the text stays readable and has a balanced number of words per line. Otherwise, in a fluid layout the text would end up as an "ant street". :-) Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Adi Nugroho

09:52

On Wednesday 10 September 2008 14:25:52 Andreas Demmer wrote:

...

The old design had no additional information for new users, which do not know what openSUSE is. So we decided to put more text in it. New users should be picked up at the front door.

It is not about design, but content :) Just an idea.... If it is possible to still use the old design, I would suggest to: * We don't need the welcome screen (currently http://www.opensuse.org). move http://en.opensuse.org there, with language selector placed in top-right area. * just re-arrange the menu, so it is more user friendly (now it is developer friendly). With less work, we can make our website more attractive. * The three selection (get it - discover it - create it) can be just listed as menu * You are right, the first thing should be shown is "what opensuse is ". I have seen it rightly placed on the top of http://en.opensuse.org. If we need more explanation, then place it on a link (like ubuntu philosophy on ubuntu website) If it is possible to still use the old design, I will search some good website we can see for example. -- Salam, Adi Nugroho - http://adi.internux.co.id/ iNterNUX --- http://www.internux.net.id/ Jalan Dr. Sam Ratulangi No. 53J Makassar Tel. +62-411-834690 Fax. +62-411-834691 CDMA:+62-411-6109535 GSM:+62-816-27-9193 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

10:07

Adi Nugroho schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

...

t is not about design, but content :) +1

Form follows function but design provides guidance.

...

If it is possible to still use the old design, I would suggest to:

Sorry, but this is likely not an option. 50+ people agreed that the new frontpage is far better than the old one (despites the suggestions), only 2 countervotes so far. :-) Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Andreas Demmer

06:20

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

We decided to put them to the lower bottom from an aesthetic point of view. IMHO it is a learned habit that if the meta-navigation is not on the upper right side, it can be found in the page footer.

...

* It's necessary to scroll to get to a lot of the content. I don't think this is entirely avoidable, but maybe it'd be possible to minimize this?

Whitespace is good! We did not want to fill every available space which would make the pake look rather packed. Now, it has a certain ease to it. IMHO vertical scrolling is very common for web pages and as long as you do not need to scroll for ages to reach the relevant parts of a website, that's fine. We tried to put the most common tasks on top (get, discover, build) while most users will have their deeplinks for the other pages.

...

I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page?

Robert loves his searchbar! :-) The seperation and position gives the page an organic feeling to it. We scribbled other suggestions but were not too pleased with the results.

...

Overall, I'm greatly impressed with this design. Andreas and Robert - looks great!

Thank you! :-) Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Robert Lihm

12:52

On 10.09.2008, at 08:20, Andreas Demmer wrote:

...

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...
* The text links at the bottom (Get Software ... Wiki ... Build Service) should be up top rather than at the bottom.

We decided to put them to the lower bottom from an aesthetic point of view. IMHO it is a learned habit that if the meta-navigation is not on the upper right side, it can be found in the page footer.

I also see it as a unwritten rule. Specially the main topic of this page is transparency and overview. This means: 1. Make it easy for newbies and newcomers to: 1.1 find out what openSUSE is (Text unter the sticker-graphic) 1.2 dig into the openSUSE.org univers (3 Boxes: Get it, Discover it, Creatie it) 2. Make searching the openSUSE-pages easy (Search-box) 3. Get informations about current or upcoming events, etc. (the wide column in the second half) 4. Provide some news, to display, that we are a active community (News at the top of the slim column) 5. Provide help (the "life belt" get enough attention if you are looking for Help! Also slim column) 6. Promote the openSUSE merchandising shop About #5:

...

I'd like to see "Help & Support" moved up above "News & Events", just to make it as quick and easy as possible to find it.

Our users need no help, 'cause everything works perfect in openSUSE, the Help thing is just symbolic ;-) No, seriously: I think it's at the perfect position there. Who is looking for help will find it very easily and moving it above the News would send the message "More people are interested in Help then in New and the Community". And I'm absolutely against this message! So Andreas wrote:

...

This should be very easy to do. @Robert: Do you agree?

I do not agree. We could display just 3 News to bring the Help-section closer to the top.

...

...
* It's necessary to scroll to get to a lot of the content. I don't think this is entirely avoidable, but maybe it'd be possible to minimize this?

Whitespace is good! We did not want to fill every available space which would make the pake look rather packed. Now, it has a certain ease to it.

IMHO vertical scrolling is very common for web pages and as long as you do not need to scroll for ages to reach the relevant parts of a website, that's fine. We tried to put the most common tasks on top (get, discover, build) while most users will have their deeplinks for the other pages.

Agree. There is a study about user-behavior on webpages, which discovered, that more then 80% of the tested people did not actively notice that they scrolled on a webpage. And as Andreas already mentioned ... the importend stuff is at the top and the rest is for visitors wich are more interested or look for something special. And the scrolling distance is nearly nothing.

...

...
I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page?

Robert loves his searchbar! :-) The seperation and position gives the page an organic feeling to it. We scribbled other suggestions but were not too pleased with the results.

The searchbar is perfect at these position! With out it, the page is just an other boring standard webpage with out any flavor. It's a necessary part of the screen-design.

...

* To increase accessibility to page and basically send out a "We care" message, Andreas will add an option to switch to high-contrast view.

+1 This idea is brilliant!

...

...
I would change is to make the 'openSUSE' text in the button sticker image completely legible. The 'openSUSE' name is a brand I guess and the fancy bend/twist of the image shouldn't affect any part of the text or chameleon logo (right now the trailing 'SE' letters are not perfectly clear/visible).

Robert and me discussed over this a lot where I took your argumentation. But we saw very quickly that the button looked oddly faked when we removed the reflections over the letters only (and the perspective distortion).

The Logo is fully recognisable and all characters are still readable. It a great eye-candy, which makes the page cool and I don't see a problem here. Whit out tweaking the "SE" and the reflections it would look like a cheep fake made by an amateur.

...

...
A possible bug: http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/os_flag.png See http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+flag

Ok, insistance is the path to success: In the next update, I will use the union-jack as flag for the English language. :-)

Thank you! :-)

...

Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning.

I see your point, but it's a perfekt hook for people who Skimm & Scann the page ... what the most users on webpages do.

...

...
t is not about design, but content :) +1

Form follows function but design provides guidance.

Aye, fully agree!

...

...
If it is possible to still use the old design, I would suggest to:

Sorry, but this is likely not an option. 50+ people agreed that the new frontpage is far better than the old one (despites the suggestions), only 2 countervotes so far. :-)

...

...
The help & support section excludes irc and documentation. Don't know if that's deliberate, but I think those are important - maybe it should just be a link to help.opensuse.org

Good suggestion!

+1 Good point.

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I think the search bar positioning in relation to the rest of the content is a little bit "avant garde" and unusual, but it's part of what makes the page so cool. I definitely vote to keep it as is.

+1000 :-D

+1000! That's exactly the idea behind it :-D

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Overall, I'm greatly impressed with this design. Andreas and Robert - looks great!

Thank you! :-)

Thanx! :) Cheers, Robert --- Robert Lihm, Webdesigner - Build Service Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, D-90409 Nuernberg Tel: +49-911-74053-0 - rlihm@suse.de ____________________________________________________________ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) ____________________________________________________________ SUSE - a Novell business -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Marko Jung

13:50

Hi. Robert Lihm schrieb:

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could display just 3 News to bring the Help-section closer to the top.

How do you like the idea to add links to the Words of the title "News & Events" to news.opensuse.org and the calendar-page? Cheers! Marko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Benji Weber

06:46

2008/9/10 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier :

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Other thoughts?

A possible bug http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/os_flag.png See http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+flag Otherwise it looks good. -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

06:52

Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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A possible bug: http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/os_flag.png See http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+flag

Ok, insistance is the path to success: In the next update, I will use the union-jack as flag for the English language. :-)

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Otherwise it looks good.

:-) Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Benji Weber

07:34

2008/9/10 Andreas Demmer :

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Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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A possible bug: http://bw.uwcs.co.uk/os_flag.png See http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+flag

Ok, insistance is the path to success: In the next update, I will use the union-jack as flag for the English language. :-)

Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning. The union flag is not ideal because other languages are spoken in the United Kingdom - such as Welsh[1]. The St George's cross would represent English/England, or a combination of the Commonwealth flag[2] and the flag of the United States of America would cover most of the English-Speaking world, but I don't really think using a country to pick a language makes much sense. [0] http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20050223.15165421 [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_Commonwealth_of_Nations.svg -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Benji Weber

07:36

2008/9/10 Benji Weber :

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[0] http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20050223.15165421

That should be http://www.w3.org/TR/i18n-html-tech-lang/#ri20040808.173208643 sorry. -- Benjamin Weber -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

07:49

Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning.

Flags make it most intuitive to understand that this is the selector that somehow deals with i18n. Imagine a visitor who speaks only spanish enters the english website (assumed that language detection failed). How can he visually identify the language switcher? I showed our solution to a lot of different people (~20) with a lot of different computing skills without explanation, asking them to find the language switcher. All of them found it instantly, all of them explaining that the flag helped a lot.

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The union flag is not ideal because other languages are spoken in the United Kingdom - such as Welsh[1]. The St George's cross would represent English/England, or a combination of the Commonwealth flag[2] and the flag of the United States of America would cover most of the English-Speaking world, but I don't really think using a country to pick a language makes much sense.

I would postpone this discussion when we have welsh translations and the like. Maybe we worked out a better solution until then. Right now, the flags are just an indicator for i18n, combined with the name of the language which works out quite well in the most common usecases. I guess we start off with a limited number of translations, e.g. English, Spanish, French and German. I would appreciate if we manage to have a russian and a chinese version soon after. Maybe Karl Eichwalder can address the translation lists. Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Jan-Simon Möller

08:57

Am Mittwoch 10 September 2008 09:49:56 schrieb Andreas Demmer:

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Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning.

Flags make it most intuitive to understand that this is the selector that somehow deals with i18n. Imagine a visitor who speaks only spanish enters the english website (assumed that language detection failed). How can he visually identify the language switcher?

I showed our solution to a lot of different people (~20) with a lot of different computing skills without explanation, asking them to find the language switcher. All of them found it instantly, all of them explaining that the flag helped a lot.

+1 I understand Benji's point of view, but I know no better _visual_ sign representing a language. I think the usage of the flags is also a sign where the language was historically spoken first. E.g. English -> England/GB/whatever, French/France, Russian/Russia. And from this point it sounds quite reasonable. E.g. a user speaking french will know the flag of France and so on. best regards Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Michael Loeffler

09:27

On Wednesday 10 September 2008, Jan-Simon Möller wrote:

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Am Mittwoch 10 September 2008 09:49:56 schrieb Andreas Demmer:

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Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning.

Flags make it most intuitive to understand that this is the selector that somehow deals with i18n. Imagine a visitor who speaks only spanish enters the english website (assumed that language detection failed). How can he visually identify the language switcher?

I showed our solution to a lot of different people (~20) with a lot of different computing skills without explanation, asking them to find the language switcher. All of them found it instantly, all of them explaining that the flag helped a lot.

+1 I understand Benji's point of view, but I know no better _visual_ sign representing a language. I think the usage of the flags is also a sign where the language was historically spoken first. E.g. English -> England/GB/whatever, French/France, Russian/Russia. And from this point it sounds quite reasonable. E.g. a user speaking french will know the flag of France and so on. +1 I think so too. Most important people can find their language easily. And as no 100% political correct way is known flags should do the job. M

best regards Jan-Simon

-- Michael Löffler, Product Management Email: michl@suse.de Phone: +49 911 74053-376 SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

¡ElCheVive!

13:33

Hi, Regarding the flags, I see a future problem for Portuguese as there oficially "two" portuguesese languages, the brazilian one and the "original" one and we share the wiki, list and whatever so using a Portugal flag or a Brazil's one will not be the best option... regards, Luiz 2008/9/10 Jan-Simon Möller :

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Am Mittwoch 10 September 2008 09:49:56 schrieb Andreas Demmer:

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Benji Weber schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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Well I'm not sure that using flags at all is a good idea. The w3c recommends against it[0], see their reasoning.

Flags make it most intuitive to understand that this is the selector that somehow deals with i18n. Imagine a visitor who speaks only spanish enters the english website (assumed that language detection failed). How can he visually identify the language switcher?

I showed our solution to a lot of different people (~20) with a lot of different computing skills without explanation, asking them to find the language switcher. All of them found it instantly, all of them explaining that the flag helped a lot.

+1 I understand Benji's point of view, but I know no better _visual_ sign representing a language. I think the usage of the flags is also a sign where the language was historically spoken first. E.g. English -> England/GB/whatever, French/France, Russian/Russia. And from this point it sounds quite reasonable. E.g. a user speaking french will know the flag of France and so on.

best regards Jan-Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

10:24

Onsdag 10 september 2008 02:16:01 skrev Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier:

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We'd like to get some comments on this redesign *now* while it's in the design phase, as opposed to a bunch of commentary *after* it's deployed. :-) (Or, to put it another way, "speak now...")

The new design is here:

http://webtest.opensuse.org/en/

Love it. Can't wait for it to go live.

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Some of the text is just placeholder text, so there's no need to worry right now about the content on the page (unless you have a desire to pitch in with that) -- but we do need some thought about the design.

Maybe this is not the time then, but I don't think you can seperate design and content decisions entirely, so here are a couple of points. I think this excellent front page, makes it more apparent that we also need a pretty page to present openSUSE the distro and the project that can be linked to from the front page - aimed at the completely uninitiated. With some screenshots, list of some key features of the distribution, what makes it better than other distros and non-linux competitors, basic information like what's the release cycle, what's the lifetime, etc. Maybe a wiki page could suffice. If done right it shouldn't need much maintenance other than updating the screenshots every 7-9 months... Do I have the desire to pitch in with that.. hmm.. maybe :-) The help & support section excludes irc and documentation. Don't know if that's deliberate, but I think those are important - maybe it should just be a link to help.opensuse.org

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I'm not a designer, but I'm wondering if it might make better use of space to include the search bar in the grey box on the page?

I think the search bar positioning in relation to the rest of the content is a little bit "avant garde" and unusual, but it's part of what makes the page so cool. I definitely vote to keep it as is. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Demmer

10:39

Martin Schlander schrieb am Mittwoch 10 September 2008:

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I think this excellent front page, makes it more apparent that we also need a pretty page to present openSUSE the distro and the project that can be linked to from the front page - aimed at the completely uninitiated. With some screenshots, list of some key features of the distribution, what makes it better than other distros and non-linux competitors, basic information like what's the release cycle, what's the lifetime, etc.

This is already in the works. Robert and me are planning to restructure the WIKI frontpage with an screenshot slider information and some vital informations. IMHO this is the right location for it, since you reach the WIKI frontpage with the "discover" button on the frontpage. Here you can see a sneek peek of the screenshot slider we are planning: http://imageslider.andreas-demmer.de (just a mockup, neither the actual design nor the right screenshots)

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The help & support section excludes irc and documentation. Don't know if that's deliberate, but I think those are important - maybe it should just be a link to help.opensuse.org

Good suggestion!

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I think the search bar positioning in relation to the rest of the content is a little bit "avant garde" and unusual, but it's part of what makes the page so cool. I definitely vote to keep it as is.

+1000 :-D Greets, Andreas -- Skype: andreas.demmer ICQ: 103 924 771 http://www.andreas-demmer.de

Denis Leslie

14:45

On Wednesday 10 September 2008 01:16:01 Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

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Other thoughts?

I like the design - it's a significant improvement on the previous page. Congrats to the designers. There is one comment I would make. On the 3 links in the grey bar - Get it, Discover it, Create it - the text that follows e.g. "Download openSUSE or find additional software packages" and similar for the other 2 links spills out of the coloured boxes on my screen, making it difficult to see and read. It would be an improvement if the text did not spill out of those boxes. Is it possible to fix that? For info, my screen resolution is 1280 x 1024, I use Firefox 2.0.0.16, and I have the browser Options set to default font size of 24, minimum font size of 16. -- Denis Leslie Can we live on our own renewables? - http://www.withouthotair.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

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31 comments

16 participants

participants (16)

Adi Nugroho
Andreas Demmer
Benji Weber
Bryen
Denis Leslie
Jan-Simon Möller
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier
Kevin Dupuy
Magnus Boman
Marko Jung
Martin Schlander
Michael Loeffler
Robert Lihm
Satoru Matsumoto
Tehmasp Chaudhri
¡ElCheVive!