[opensuse-marketing] Opensuse 11.0 boxed versions?
Hi all, OpenSuSE 11.0 has reached maturity and has gone GM, and as a result has been released onto the download mirrors. Boxed versions are still not available however, unless they are on pre-order. Something in the marketing is wrong as if the software is release it should be available in all forms. Why must a person who is supporting the OpenSuSE distro by buying a boxed version have to wait longer for it than those who can download it? The software has gone public and yet some of the public cannot access it, and I speak for those who might want boxed sets and who have no distributor in their country i.e. South Africa, as well as pitiful line speeds. When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ? Regards Hylton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 21:04 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ?
According to an email I got from Novell, they ship this Thursday, June
26th. I agree with you that they should be available same day, but we've
had several discussions on the main mailinglist about this, and from
what I'm getting, it's because the release to the public is one week
after the product goes gold, and that's not enough time to get boxed
editions produced and shipped. One week after the release is the
quickest I've seen a boxed edition become available, since the openSUSE
project started anyway (I wasn't following boxed editions before then).
--
Kevin "Yo" Dupuy
Public Mail
Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 21:04 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ?
According to an email I got from Novell, they ship this Thursday, June 26th. I agree with you that they should be available same day, but we've had several discussions on the main mailinglist about this, and from what I'm getting, it's because the release to the public is one week after the product goes gold, and that's not enough time to get boxed editions produced and shipped. One week after the release is the quickest I've seen a boxed edition become available, since the openSUSE project started anyway (I wasn't following boxed editions before then).
You lucky, you got mail from Novell. What are signed up to to receive it? Despite them saying the boxes are being shipped on the 26th, on visiting the site of http://en.opensuse.org/Buy_openSUSE and selecting my region, I still only get the option to pre-order the box i.e. http://shop.novell.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=novelleu&Locale=en_GB&Env=BASE&productID=105125500&&resid=L2h9NQoBAkcAAA@N0hwAAAAJ&rests=1214492352576 This is at 15h00 UTC. To me the day of the 26th started at 00h00 i.e. midnight on the 25th. You mention a week being the fastest you have seen for boxed sets to be produced. Has Novell not heard of forward planning? When the product went into Beta or even RC status, someone at Novell should have ordered the boxes printed so that by the time GM time comes, the DVD's can be mass produced, put in a box ready for shipping and it can be announced that the version has been released. The download mirrors are opened to the new software and people not downloading but visiting the on-line store are able to order and know that the package is on its way when they have completed the transaction. The openSuSE and SuSE distribution is a slick piece of software that needs to have slick distribution otherwise its name is dirtied by poor sales and distribution. If Susians knew that if a box set was ordered, they would receive it as soon as the postal system could deliver it, I am sure Novell would make far more money from the openSuSE boxed sets. Its all in the planning. I hope the necessary websites will enable me to order tomorrow and choose my shipment method. Regards Hylton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
"Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC)"
Kevin Dupuy wrote:
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 21:04 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ?
According to an email I got from Novell, they ship this Thursday, June 26th. I agree with you that they should be available same day, but we've had several discussions on the main mailinglist about this, and from what I'm getting, it's because the release to the public is one week after the product goes gold, and that's not enough time to get boxed editions produced and shipped. One week after the release is the quickest I've seen a boxed edition become available, since the openSUSE project started anyway (I wasn't following boxed editions before then).
You lucky, you got mail from Novell. What are signed up to to receive it?
Despite them saying the boxes are being shipped on the 26th, on visiting the site of http://en.opensuse.org/Buy_openSUSE and selecting my region, I still only get the option to pre-order the box i.e. http://shop.novell.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=novelleu&Locale=en_GB&Env=BASE&productID=105125500&&resid=L2h9NQoBAkcAAA@N0hwAAAAJ&rests=1214492352576 This is at 15h00 UTC. To me the day of the 26th started at 00h00 i.e. midnight on the 25th.
You mention a week being the fastest you have seen for boxed sets to be produced. Has Novell not heard of forward planning? When the product went into Beta or even RC status, someone at Novell should have ordered the boxes printed so that by the time GM time comes, the DVD's can be mass produced, put in a box ready for shipping and it can be announced that the version has been released. The download mirrors are opened to the new software and people not downloading but visiting the on-line store are able to order and know that the package is on its way when they have completed the transaction.
Hylton, we're doing this business since some time and do basically what you propose: * the DVDs are on the critical path * PDFs for printed manuals are delivered earlier so that they are printed at the same time the DVDs are pressed * The other material is also ordered for that day And yes, we have only one week between sending the DVD to production and delivering enough boxes out to suppliers. It just is not going faster. But should we delay the public release for that? In the past we delayed it for a couple of months to earn our money with the box - today we offer a choice.
The openSuSE and SuSE distribution is a slick piece of software that needs to have slick distribution otherwise its name is dirtied by poor sales and distribution. If Susians knew that if a box set was ordered, they would receive it as soon as the postal system could deliver it, I am sure Novell would make far more money from the openSuSE boxed sets.
Its all in the planning.
I hope the necessary websites will enable me to order tomorrow and choose my shipment method.
shop.novell.com is unfortunately another story, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 17:46 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Hylton, we're doing this business since some time and do basically what you propose: * the DVDs are on the critical path * PDFs for printed manuals are delivered earlier so that they are printed at the same time the DVDs are pressed * The other material is also ordered for that day
And yes, we have only one week between sending the DVD to production and delivering enough boxes out to suppliers. It just is not going faster.
But should we delay the public release for that? In the past we delayed it for a couple of months to earn our money with the box - today we offer a choice.
I haven't been a big proponent of extending the time between goldmaster and public release, although if two weeks after going gold is the quickest boxes can be produced, extending it by one week (since it's one week already) probably wouldn't cause too much fuss. And it could be good, from a marketing perspective, e.g. offer the goldmaster release to magazines and reviewers early, so they can test openSUSE's final release. Again, it's not the ideal circumstance, but we should maybe look into it?
shop.novell.com is unfortunately another story,
That's interesting, since most of the complaints, mine and others, have
to do with shop.novell.com, especially in North America. Andreas, do you
know of any attempts to try and improve the situation with Novell's
shop, and do you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean by it's
another story.
Thanks for your help.
--
Kevin "Yo" Dupuy
Public Mail
Kevin Dupuy
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 17:46 +0200, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
Hylton, we're doing this business since some time and do basically what you propose: * the DVDs are on the critical path * PDFs for printed manuals are delivered earlier so that they are printed at the same time the DVDs are pressed * The other material is also ordered for that day
And yes, we have only one week between sending the DVD to production and delivering enough boxes out to suppliers. It just is not going faster.
But should we delay the public release for that? In the past we delayed it for a couple of months to earn our money with the box - today we offer a choice.
I haven't been a big proponent of extending the time between goldmaster and public release, although if two weeks after going gold is the quickest boxes can be produced, extending it by one week (since it's one week already) probably wouldn't cause too much fuss. And it could be good, from a marketing perspective, e.g. offer the goldmaster release to magazines and reviewers early, so they can test openSUSE's final release.
Magazines in general test the media and those we could also make online available under some kind of non-distribution role.
Again, it's not the ideal circumstance, but we should maybe look into it?
Yes, please talk to Michael (see below).
shop.novell.com is unfortunately another story,
That's interesting, since most of the complaints, mine and others, have to do with shop.novell.com, especially in North America. Andreas, do you know of any attempts to try and improve the situation with Novell's shop, and do you mind elaborating on what exactly you mean by it's another story.
Michael - who's on vacation the next two weeks - is involved with shop.novell.com and could better comment on it. Btw. the pre-order button should be changed since friday and delivered should have started, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
On Thu, 2008-06-26 at 17:22 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
You lucky, you got mail from Novell. What are signed up to to receive it?
Despite them saying the boxes are being shipped on the 26th, on visiting the site of http://en.opensuse.org/Buy_openSUSE and selecting my region, I still only get the option to pre-order the box i.e. http://shop.novell.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=novelleu&Locale=en_GB&Env=BASE&productID=105125500&&resid=L2h9NQoBAkcAAA@N0hwAAAAJ&rests=1214492352576 This is at 15h00 UTC. To me the day of the 26th started at 00h00 i.e. midnight on the 25th.
I just got it automatically last Wednesday, but by then I had already
pre-ordered it. So maybe that's why I got it.
They should be shipping today, that's all I know.
--
Kevin "Yo" Dupuy
Public Mail
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 21:04 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Hi all,
OpenSuSE 11.0 has reached maturity and has gone GM, and as a result has been released onto the download mirrors. Boxed versions are still not available however, unless they are on pre-order. Something in the marketing is wrong as if the software is release it should be available in all forms.
I agree that there needs to be a faster turn-around between GM release and Boxed release. If I recall correctly, the 10.3 Boxed release was seriously delayed for whatever reason. However, I think it is next to impossible to release Boxed simultaneously to GM release, for the very nature of how this project works. If I'm not mistaken, the project went Gold only a few short days before actual release. Simply put, that's not enough time to print the manuals, burn the DVD's, test everything is shippable, and be ready on GM release day. What should be done, whomever is in charge of the Boxed release, is to ensure that there are no long delays as we experienced in 10.3. Bryen
Why must a person who is supporting the OpenSuSE distro by buying a boxed version have to wait longer for it than those who can download it? The software has gone public and yet some of the public cannot access it, and I speak for those who might want boxed sets and who have no distributor in their country i.e. South Africa, as well as pitiful line speeds.
When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ?
Regards Hylton
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi Bryen, Bryen wrote:
On Tue, 2008-06-24 at 21:04 +0200, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Hi all,
OpenSuSE 11.0 has reached maturity and has gone GM, and as a result has been released onto the download mirrors. Boxed versions are still not available however, unless they are on pre-order. Something in the marketing is wrong as if the software is release it should be available in all forms.
I agree that there needs to be a faster turn-around between GM release and Boxed release. If I recall correctly, the 10.3 Boxed release was seriously delayed for whatever reason.
However, I think it is next to impossible to release Boxed simultaneously to GM release, for the very nature of how this project works. If I'm not mistaken, the project went Gold only a few short days before actual release. Simply put, that's not enough time to print the manuals, burn the DVD's, test everything is shippable, and be ready on GM release day.
Without planning simultaneous release IS impossible as you and many others will say. With forward planning, a simultaneous release certainly is possible and this efficiency should bolster the SuSE/openSuSE brand even further, as apart from just having a good product Novell is responsive to customers' needs by making sure that the boxed versions are shipped at the same time the download version is made available. Regards Hylton -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi Hylton,
Why must a person who is supporting the OpenSuSE distro by buying a boxed version have to wait longer for it than those who can download it? The software has gone public and yet some of the public cannot access it, and I speak for those who might want boxed sets and who have no distributor in their country i.e. South Africa, as well as pitiful line speeds.
In a word, production -- the only thing we could do to even out the disparity would be to make the downloaders wait longer, which is pretty undesirable as well. But, we simply don't have any way to speed production up to the point that we could deliver the GM and have it to all customers in just a few days. I know that's not a very satisfying answer, but it does take a while to actually get boxed versions made. We could achieve it artificially by delaying downloads of the GM, but from a production standpoint I don't see any good way to achieve simultaneous delivery. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager http://zonker.opensuse.org/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier a écrit :
but it does take a while to actually get boxed versions made.
Hi, Do you know when is the boxed dvd due to be released (even approximatly) ? I've got a friend that's ready And willing to switch to linux ;) thanks Fabrice -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 24 June 2008 22:27:28 manchette wrote:
Do you know when is the boxed dvd due to be released (even approximatly) ?
It's released. When you get it depends on many things: language version, your country, where you buy/how long the dealer chain is. I read that German subscribers received their openSUSE 11.0 box even on day of release. :-) Bye, Steve -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
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Hash: SHA1
Stephan Binner wrote:
| On Tuesday 24 June 2008 22:27:28 manchette wrote:
|
|> Do you know when is the boxed dvd due to be released (even
approximatly) ?
|
| It's released. When you get it depends on many things: language
version, your
| country, where you buy/how long the dealer chain is. I read that German
| subscribers received their openSUSE 11.0 box even on day of release. :-)
Yep, indeed. I bought a subscription where every release is
automatically sent to me when available, and received the box on
Thursday, from here: http://www.edv-buchversand.de/suse/
cheers
- --
~ -o) Pascal Bleser
Pascal Bleser a écrit :
Stephan Binner wrote: | On Tuesday 24 June 2008 22:27:28 manchette wrote: | |> Do you know when is the boxed dvd due to be released (even approximatly) ? | | It's released. When you get it depends on many things: language version, your | country, where you buy/how long the dealer chain is. I read that German | subscribers received their openSUSE 11.0 box even on day of release. :-)
Yep, indeed. I bought a subscription where every release is automatically sent to me when available, and received the box on Thursday, from here: http://www.edv-buchversand.de/suse/
cheers hello, i don't understand german, so i saw this site in english : http://shop.novell.com/DRHM/servlet/ControllerServlet?Action=DisplayProductDetailsPage&SiteID=novelleu&Locale=en_GB&Env=BASE&productID=105125500&&resid=0aQ5AgoHAi0AACduLpcAAAAA&rests=1214392634664 is the boxed dvd mentionning english also providing french language ? Thanks Fabrice -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi Joe, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:
Hi Hylton,
Why must a person who is supporting the OpenSuSE distro by buying a boxed version have to wait longer for it than those who can download it? The software has gone public and yet some of the public cannot access it, and I speak for those who might want boxed sets and who have no distributor in their country i.e. South Africa, as well as pitiful line speeds.
In a word, production -- the only thing we could do to even out the disparity would be to make the downloaders wait longer, which is pretty undesirable as well. I refer to my answer I gave Kevin. PLANNING
But, we simply don't have any way to speed production up to the point that we could deliver the GM and have it to all customers in just a few days. I know that's not a very satisfying answer, but it does take a while to actually get boxed versions made.
We could achieve it artificially by delaying downloads of the GM, but from a production standpoint I don't see any good way to achieve simultaneous delivery. Please do not delay the downloads of the GM until the boxed sets are ready given current methods as there will be a revolt. Perhaps it is better to delay the release of the download until you at least have some GM boxed versions to ship and the download mirrors have been correctly populated. Then open the 'floodgates' and let those who want to download do it and those wanting to purchase, purchase. All it takes is, although not minor, is planning.
Regards Hylton
Best,
Zonker
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
Hi, On Tuesday 24 June 2008, Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) wrote:
Hi all,
OpenSuSE 11.0 has reached maturity and has gone GM, and as a result has been released onto the download mirrors. Boxed versions are still not available however, unless they are on pre-order. Something in the marketing is wrong as if the software is release it should be available in all forms.
Why must a person who is supporting the OpenSuSE distro by buying a boxed version have to wait longer for it than those who can download it? We need to make a difference regarding countries. In EMEA and especially german speaking countries first boxes arrived at release day at customer's side. As production happens in Germany and North America is pretty far away the shipment is delayed through shipment itself plus customs.
For 11.0 we see the fatest turn around time for production and delivery of physical boxes. Unless we don't let downlaod customers wait for another week or so it is impossible to ship at release date in certain countries to customers. BTW: I'm oppose delaying release day.
The software has gone public and yet some of the public cannot access it, and I speak for those who might want boxed sets and who have no distributor in their country i.e. South Africa, as well as pitiful line speeds. Here we see budget and chicken egg issues. Boxes are currently available in EMEA, with a strong focus on Germany and in North America. Through shop.novell.com they are available kind of worldwide with the downside of ridiculous high cost for shipping. Setting up a retail channel e.g. for South Africa is costly and as of today its not justified through demand. FYI, prior to the openSUSE.org project with its free download we produced localised boxes for Italy, Spain and France. But due to low demand we needed to pull out of this markets again.
Best Michael
When are the boxed sets going to be available, not on pre-order, but as a live order as I have seen nothing on the announcements list ?
Regards Hylton
-- Michael Löffler, Product Management SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 09:46 +0200, Michael Loeffler wrote:
We need to make a difference regarding countries. In EMEA and especially german speaking countries first boxes arrived at release day at customer's side. As production happens in Germany and North America is pretty far away the shipment is delayed through shipment itself plus customs.
For 11.0 we see the fatest turn around time for production and delivery of physical boxes. Unless we don't let downlaod customers wait for another week or so it is impossible to ship at release date in certain countries to customers. BTW: I'm oppose delaying release day.
Interesting, and thanks for explaining it further, Michael. I do have
one question for you: I went and pulled out some older SUSE Linux boxes
(I'm in the US, BTW), and my 10.1 and 10.0 boxes both have a sticker on
the bottom labeled "Made in USA". Both 10.2 and 10.3 boxes have a
sticker labeled "Made in Germany". The 10.2 box was the first one that I
had trouble getting here (meaning longer ship times, etc.)
Was that another case of budget/low demand, Novell pulling out of
producing boxes in North America and not selling boxes through the
distribution channel (stores, Amazon.com US, etc.)?
--
Kevin "Yo" Dupuy
Public Mail
Kevin Dupuy
On Wed, 2008-06-25 at 09:46 +0200, Michael Loeffler wrote:
We need to make a difference regarding countries. In EMEA and especially german speaking countries first boxes arrived at release day at customer's side. As production happens in Germany and North America is pretty far away the shipment is delayed through shipment itself plus customs.
For 11.0 we see the fatest turn around time for production and delivery of physical boxes. Unless we don't let downlaod customers wait for another week or so it is impossible to ship at release date in certain countries to customers. BTW: I'm oppose delaying release day.
Interesting, and thanks for explaining it further, Michael. I do have one question for you: I went and pulled out some older SUSE Linux boxes (I'm in the US, BTW), and my 10.1 and 10.0 boxes both have a sticker on the bottom labeled "Made in USA". Both 10.2 and 10.3 boxes have a sticker labeled "Made in Germany". The 10.2 box was the first one that I had trouble getting here (meaning longer ship times, etc.)
Was that another case of budget/low demand, Novell pulling out of producing boxes in North America and not selling boxes through the distribution channel (stores, Amazon.com US, etc.)?
These two are not directly related - but happened at similiar timing. Novell pulled out of the distribution channel in the US. For the box production I have to go some more back in time: In the SUSE days, boxes were produced in Germany, then with Novell we produced them both in Ireland and the US - and finally went back to the German fab only, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
participants (9)
-
Andreas Jaeger -
Bryen -
Hylton Conacher (ZR1HPC) -
Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier -
Kevin Dupuy -
manchette -
Michael Loeffler -
Pascal Bleser -
Stephan Binner