On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 18:11 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

2010/8/18 nmarques :

...

Hi,

I've taken finally a more active role and I've proposed the creation of generic Portuguese Language Forums and made myself available to moderate the European Portuguese ones. I'm also making myself available to become an ambassador for Portugal and organize an event (this has mostly been planned with the support of the local city hall for Fedora but never went through), so I'm picking it up for the future.

As I'm starting something with SUSE Studio which was unreliable with Fedora due to some weird package dependencies from the Red Hat Desktop Team and specially due to my inactivity there, I'm ceasing soon my ties with Fedora Project (alongside with other reasons which don't matter for anyone except me and them, in a way personal).

I'm also making myself available for establishing cooperation with Brazilian users and Ambassadors to reach a mutual agreement on Portuguese Forums as there are two official branches (European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese) so we can provide a better offer to our audiences. Maybe someday we can do a launch campaign in Portuguese for the whole Portuguese speakers in the world ;)

File bellow (might have errors, dunno, but the idea is clear). I've submitted it to forum moderators.

Nelson

[1] - http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/opensuse-portug... -- nelson marques nmo.marques@gmail.com

Hi Nelson

Sometime ago there was an unofficial pt forum called opensusept.org (which is offline/dead for more than 4 months now) and there is the brazilian one susebr.org, which we are planning to agreggate or just link in official forums.o.o (like spanish and hebrew) I am in favor of sharing some thinks in comunity betwenn the original pt and the fork ;-) like our mailling list, irc channel and wiki (opensuse-pt). And now that apparently pt forum is dead, share the foruns too. Of course somethings cannot be share like translations and community organization.

I'm inviting you to join us on opensuse-pt mailling list as we are also starting to create a brazilian community.

Hi, I don't want to be misunderstood. I'm all in favor of cooperation between portuguese and brazilians. But I would like to keep a special strategical foruns oriented only for Portuguese. We're such a tiny community that we need another approach. As for wiki's and all the rest... I don't want to influence any of that, neither I do submit any proposal for changes. I just want to build a kick-start ramp so that Portuguese people can get proper attention while engaging on openSUSE, if possible that get can get good integration. For all the rest, community should follow as they please. nelson

Regards,

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

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On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 23:15 +0200, Rémy Marquis wrote:

On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 10:47 PM, nmarques wrote:

...

Hi,

I've taken finally a more active role and I've proposed the creation of generic Portuguese Language Forums and made myself available to moderate the European Portuguese ones. I'm also making myself available to become an ambassador for Portugal and organize an event (this has mostly been planned with the support of the local city hall for Fedora but never went through), so I'm picking it up for the future.

As I'm starting something with SUSE Studio which was unreliable with Fedora due to some weird package dependencies from the Red Hat Desktop Team and specially due to my inactivity there, I'm ceasing soon my ties with Fedora Project (alongside with other reasons which don't matter for anyone except me and them, in a way personal).

I'm also making myself available for establishing cooperation with Brazilian users and Ambassadors to reach a mutual agreement on Portuguese Forums as there are two official branches (European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese) so we can provide a better offer to our audiences. Maybe someday we can do a launch campaign in Portuguese for the whole Portuguese speakers in the world ;)

File bellow (might have errors, dunno, but the idea is clear). I've submitted it to forum moderators.

Nelson

[1] - http://nmarques.digitalwhores.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/opensuse-portug...

Hi Nelson,

I had a quick look at your proposal, and it seems really good to me. Thaks for the time you're investing to make this project possible!

I believe it would be good if you can find a Brazilian person to design eventual PT_BR forums that could be put online at the same time as the (european) PT forums.

Also, please follow the established Forums languages guidelines to create the (european) portuguese openSUSE forums : http://forums.opensuse.org/english/news/announcements/432590-establishing-la...

In addition, I strongly suggest you to find one or two other people willing to moderate the (european) PT forums. It's a very time consuming task that can't be done efficiently by a single person.

Good point, but the issue is, we are few Portuguese, so there shouldn't be very much traffic expected, that is why I can take responsability for the start for a Portuguese Forum (Portugal). Would be folly to take it for Brazilian as they are far more than us and will for sure generate far more traffic. Going live only on European Portuguese, would be problematic, that is why I expect Brazilian volunteers to take charge on Brazilian forums and help with general Portuguese. As for European Portuguese foruns only, that I believe 1 man can do it, but like I said, during this months of research I've only found 2 people who replied my emails, Carlos and Antonio. Discussed with Carlos which doesn't have enough time... I don't know anyone else... If they appear, sure we're reinforce the ranks, but until then... I really don't know what to do ;) Maybe a newspaper add :P nelson PS: Anyway the reason why I send this to this list was to get more people in discussing this, specially the Brazilian Ambassadors that can also use this as a tool for their work. As for the proper means, I've contacted already the forums administrator by PM as they requested. I've posted in the past (some months ago a topic about it and waited all this time to see if someone moved it forward, no one did, so I'm trying to do it with the only person I know that is interested, and that is me).

Regards,

R.

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Hi, On 2010/08/19, at 20:15, Nelson Marques wrote:

On Wed, 2010-08-18 at 23:15 +0200, Rémy Marquis wrote:

...

I believe it would be good if you can find a Brazilian person to design eventual PT_BR forums that could be put online at the same time as the (european) PT forums.

A brief update:

I've spoken superficially with Carlos Ribeiro, which I belong that represents the Brazilian Community towards this subject. We have agreed to coordinate efforts to provide "Portuguese Forums" and on a personal level I believe he understood my position.

When you say "Portuguese Forums" are you including all speaking Portuguese communities around the world, or just the European Portuguese? Sorry, but I ended up by not getting what you meant with that.

Once this is completed I look forward for "planet" with a message something like "openSUSE em Português" featuring only contents in Portuguese. I hope that such project can be coordinated and promoted on a later stage with Ambassadors from Portugal and Brazil (+ any other countries that officially speak Portuguese).

Again, pt_PT only? A planet with only aggregated blogs from pt_PT people?

I also leave the idea that we might think on creating a 'planet ring' with other planets that might come around in other languages and maybe having the planet.opensuse.org as the main planet.

planet.opensuse.org already host separated languages, each with its own RSS feed. My apologies in advance if I misunderstood you. Thanks, Carlos Gonçalves -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Monday 23 August 2010 15:00:37 Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

2010/8/20 Jos Poortvliet :

...

On Wednesday 18 August 2010 22:47:11 nmarques wrote:

...

Hi,

I've taken finally a more active role and I've proposed the creation of generic Portuguese Language Forums and made myself available to moderate the European Portuguese ones. I'm also making myself available to become an ambassador for Portugal and organize an event (this has mostly been planned with the support of the local city hall for Fedora but never went through), so I'm picking it up for the future.

As I'm starting something with SUSE Studio which was unreliable with Fedora due to some weird package dependencies from the Red Hat Desktop Team and specially due to my inactivity there, I'm ceasing soon my ties with Fedora Project (alongside with other reasons which don't matter for anyone except me and them, in a way personal).

I'm also making myself available for establishing cooperation with Brazilian users and Ambassadors to reach a mutual agreement on Portuguese Forums as there are two official branches (European Portuguese and Brazilian Portuguese) so we can provide a better offer to our audiences. Maybe someday we can do a launch campaign in Portuguese for the whole Portuguese speakers in the world ;)

File bellow (might have errors, dunno, but the idea is clear). I've submitted it to forum moderators.

Nelson,

Cool that you're going to set these things up. Like Carlos a bit further in this thread I'm not exactly clear on what you're going to do.

Set up a EU-portugese forum (I hope on forums.opensuse.org) next to the brazilian one? And a separate mailinglist? Or did you want to have a joint forum but separate mailinglist or the other way around?

Maybe it is my lack of sleep, but I don't get it ;-)

Bulletpoints, dude, bulletpoints! for the less smart ppl among us ;-)

Love, Jos

Hi Jos,

If I'm not wrong, Nelson's proposal is to create a Portuguese forum under the offcial forums.o.o with the folowing configuration>

forums.o.o * Portuguese # European Portuguese (its not the write way of calling as its spoken also on African & Asia) # Brazilian Portugues (aka 'the fork' ;-) )

And my suggest is to redirect brazilian subforum to our existent www.susebr.org forum (at least for now, maybe in the future migrate all its content to forums.o.o).

Nelson's suggestions only split the forums in which he believes is more attractive for newcomers given the difference between pt and pt_BR.

Regards,

Luiz, You're my friend now. You can talk manager, hehe. I get it, and it makes sense. I haven't seen any 'nay' sayers yet so I'd say go ahead :D

Luiz

2010/8/30 Nelson Marques :

On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 10:00 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

# European Portuguese (its not the write way of calling as its spoken also on African & Asia)

 It's statements like this that justify the need to having separate forums.  Such statement does not translate the truth, it's misleading, false and injurious to the Portuguese.

 Should 'we' Portuguese ignore such statements which show a total lack of respect towards our sovereignty and conventions?  - quick answer - For the sake of this list, YES!

 I would strongly advice you or anyone else who wants to clear that out to contact «Instituto Camões»[1] which is the organization responsible for promoting worldwide European Portuguese also known as Portuguese of Portugal or Lusitan Portuguese.

 They alongside with the «Academia de Ciências de Lisboa»[2] are the highest organizations that will provide the required information, and not one's common sense.

 [1] - http://www.instituto-camoes.pt/  [2] - http://www.acad-ciencias.pt/

 nelson

So to stop this discussion, do the European Portuguese forum and the other one call it 'Ex-colonies Portuguese (America, Asia & Africa)" While some people want to make Portuguese one of ONU's official language (by doing the 1990 agreement for example), some people seams to go in the other direction, but this is not the right mailinglist to discuss this. Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

2010/8/30 Nelson Marques :

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:56 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

While some people want to make Portuguese one of ONU's official language (by doing the 1990 agreement for example), some people seams to go in the other direction, but this is not the right mailinglist to discuss this.

First, I don't care about politics, unless it's domestic politics. Second, that doesn't give you the right to deliberately pass on false information.

Second, don't go that way and try to override things that are tightly related to our culture. As a sovereign nation we are pretty much capable of deciding our future as we've been doing for the last 1000 years. Thank you.

Third, the official language of Portugal is 'Portuguese' referred nationally as "Português/Portuguese" and internationally as "European Portuguese" or "Lusitan Portuguese" or "Portuguese of Portugal". This are the expressions approved to refer to it. If you don't like it, file a complaint to the organizations that regulate it, which I pointed in the previous email, else stop passing on false information, no one really benefits from that, and instead of making people more rich culturally you are actually leading people to mistake.

nelson.

Ok. End of discussion, at least from my part. Regards, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 31 August 2010 03:29:13 Carlos Ribeiro wrote:

Hello fellows

Let's try to have some fun?

IMHO this related topic does not have to flood marketing ML. I really believe that we need to clean our house first and only after that ask for good neighbors and mates to came and visit our cleaned house and give their opinions about how things are doing and how to improve it.

I inviting everyone that have some points to defend about this thread to join us at our #opensuse-pt channel and have a democratic discussion way to fix this in the next meeting.

What do you think guys, could I add this thread as a topic for the next meeting?

I really believe up there is the best and democratic place to have discussions about openSUSE Portuguese language.

PS: I do not have my opinion about that yet, I hope after our meeting, some things starts to be more clear in my mind to have a opinion and to be able to help the Portuguese language TEAM more effectively. Also I didn't see several english language forums for American english, australia english, england english, canadina english, south africa english, .... for example, but again, I believe the better and democratic way to solve this could be inside our portuguese language irc channel not here, and I not telling that we do not need use this Marketing ML, I'm just telling that we need to clean up our house first, working together with our house mates, before any action involving Marketing ML.

How about just having a private mail thread about this among you guys? Or having a private IRC discussion? Adding this to a meeting will only increase the flame and amount of discussion... ???

best regards and do not forget to ...

have a lot fun!

CarlosRibeiro

...

...

...

Em 30/08/2010 às 04:04 PM, na mensagem , Luiz Fernando Ranghetti gravou: 2010/8/30 Nelson Marques : On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:56 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote: While some people want to make Portuguese one of ONU's official language (by doing the 1990 agreement for example), some people seams to go in the other direction, but this is not the right mailinglist to discuss this.

First, I don't care about politics, unless it's domestic politics.

...

...

Second, that doesn't give you the right to deliberately pass on false information.

Second, don't go that way and try to override things that are tightly related to our culture. As a sovereign nation we are pretty much capable of deciding our future as we've been doing for the last 1000 years.

...

...

Thank you.

Third, the official language of Portugal is 'Portuguese' referred nationally as "Português/Portuguese" and internationally as "European Portuguese" or "Lusitan Portuguese" or "Portuguese of Portugal". This are the expressions approved to refer to it. If you don't like it, file a complaint to the organizations that regulate it, which I pointed in the previous email, else stop passing on false information, no one

...

...

really benefits from that, and instead of making people more rich culturally you are actually leading people to mistake.

nelson.

Ok.

End of discussion, at least from my part.

Regards,

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

...

I'll answer this in private not to add more fuel into this. On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 22:14 -0500, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

(Top-posting because I'm responding to the thread as whole rather than to a specific post within the thread...)

I'm a little confused by the whole discussion on several fronts.

- First... Why dies this discussion exist on this particular mailing list? Discussions about forums should be done with the forum admins. We, on the marketing team, have no direct control over the activities of the Forum administration and mergings of multiple languages.

- Second, our "borders" within openSUSE have been language-based, not geography based. That is to say, for example, English. We do not hold separate channels of communication for England, Australia, United States, etc. There is ONE EN for all speakers of a language regardless of where they live. It could be argued that each of those countries mentioned use English in a different way, but there's still an underlying root commonality that we're all able to communicate regardless.

Here, I'm uncertain if there is such a distinctive difference in the Portuguese language that it is so drastically different per country that it needs separate locality designation. If there is, please enlighten me. But from what I'm seeing in #opensuse-pt and elsewhere, Portuguese-speaking people of different regions seem to be able to communicate effectively with each other.

So why do we need distinctive forum specifically for the country of Portugal and others? The more we spread out support information into smaller pods, the less we're going to achieve. And that hurts us in so many ways, including even raising our Google indexibility.

So, in a nutshell, can someone clarify to me as well as to others, why we want to even begin to consider breaking away from the traditional model of being language-based rather than geography-based?

But otherwise, really, this discussion doesn't belong on this mailing list.

Thanks, Bryen M Yunashko

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 20:00 +0100, Nelson Marques wrote:

...

On Mon, 2010-08-30 at 14:56 -0300, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

While some people want to make Portuguese one of ONU's official language (by doing the 1990 agreement for example), some people seams to go in the other direction, but this is not the right mailinglist to discuss this.

First, I don't care about politics, unless it's domestic politics. Second, that doesn't give you the right to deliberately pass on false information.

Second, don't go that way and try to override things that are tightly related to our culture. As a sovereign nation we are pretty much capable of deciding our future as we've been doing for the last 1000 years. Thank you.

Third, the official language of Portugal is 'Portuguese' referred nationally as "Português/Portuguese" and internationally as "European Portuguese" or "Lusitan Portuguese" or "Portuguese of Portugal". This are the expressions approved to refer to it. If you don't like it, file a complaint to the organizations that regulate it, which I pointed in the previous email, else stop passing on false information, no one really benefits from that, and instead of making people more rich culturally you are actually leading people to mistake.

nelson.

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