On 03/02/2011 07:37 AM, Helen South wrote:

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Jan Holesovsky wrote:

...

Hi all,

Since I experienced some very poor communication about LibreOffice recently, I thought it would be good to reach out to this list...

I mean this:

http://news.opensuse.org/2011/02/26/opensuse-11-4-rc2-steps-out/

It is of course right to point people to the known bugs; but before it is done publicly, it should be researched if the bugs are still valid at all - in this case the bug claimed to be present in LibreOffice was fixed quite some time ago, in a duplicate bug report.

Worse - the form chosen in the article was insulting to all the developers who spent days (and some nights too) on getting LibreOffice the best choice for openSUSE. It is also undermining the efforts of the LibreOffice marketing team.

I am sure you all know the benefits of the switch to LibreOffice (if not, I'll be glad to follow-up), so _please_ - make the communication appropriate:

- openSUSE supports LibreOffice, many of the LibreOffice developers are openSUSE members, when you do not communicate properly about LibreOffice, you harm openSUSE

- reach to Petr Mladek , the LibreOffice packager for openSUSE, whenever you want to have the most recent list of known bugs, or when you need to check what is the real status of the release, or of a concrete bug. Should you fail to reach him, try me, or Michael Meeks. Also Petr's blog [1] is a good source of the relevant info.

- phrases like "not quite ready for the production environment" are very sensitive, and should be used only when you know what are you doing ['you know what you are doing' usually means 'you have communicated it with Petr' ;-)]

- when you need anything about LibreOffice quickly, reach to us in the #libreoffice channel on irc.freenode.net, there's always somebody awake there ;-) For the openSUSE-related stuff, search for pmladek, mmeeks, kendy, thorsten, or other people with the opensuse/member IRC cloak

- and of course, there is also a LibreOffice marketing team too, reachable at marketing@libreoffice.org

I am sure we can do better the next time - do reach to us, we are eager to help.

Regards, Kendy

[1] http://lizards.opensuse.org/author/pmladek/

Kendy,

this is entirely my responsibility and does not reflect the attitudes and abilities of the project in any way. Please don't direct any criticism towards the capable and professional members of the project when the error is soley on my part.

I'm inexperienced with this kind of documentation and should not have published it without having someone review the material.

regards,

Helen

Helen don't hit yourself too much. As mainly it was due to my bug. Ok we failed, those bug should have been closed before that. Now it's ok Kendy sorry, there's no offense against LO. Now we detect that we failed somewhere in the reviewing of bugzilla. I promise, if any of my bug is still open (the P1 P2 level) even if I'm a total hurry of time, I will recheck their validity before using them. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Hi Helen, Andreas, On 2011-03-02 at 11:23 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

this was indeed a mistake that we should not repeat and I'm sorry for it.

Your apologies accepted, and appreciated :-) - thank you for that.

What can we do now? Would it make sense to have a news story about openSUSE 11.4 as first distribution which ships LibreOffice and speak about the impressive rate the LibreOffice team fixed bugs?

I think it would be great to do an article about LibreOffice in openSUSE in general - new features, fixed bugs, integration with openSUSE. Or - even better - Manu has done an interview with Petr for news.opensuse.org, about him, his work on LibreOffice and openSUSE, and about LibreOffice in general. It might be a good time to publish it - it is more personal, and most probably contains info you cannot find on the 'normal' news servers. [If it is already out, I am sorry, I somehow cannot find it :-(] Thank you, Kendy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

In the followup to this, I think it's important to note that libreoffice is "Tumbleweed enabled." That generally means that if the package is actively supported(and libreoffice is), the very latest updates including any bugs as well as new features would be pushed out to the User almost immediately. That would also imply that practically any "news" about a Tumblewee-enabled app like libreoffice is likely "old news" and probably obsolete Tony On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 6:14 AM, Bryen M. Yunashko wrote:

On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 11:23 +0100, Andreas Jaeger wrote:

...

Kendy and the LibreOffice developers,

this was indeed a mistake that we should not repeat and I'm sorry for it.

What can we do now? Would it make sense to have a news story about openSUSE 11.4 as first distribution which ships LibreOffice and speak about the impressive rate the LibreOffice team fixed bugs?

Andreas --  Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE,  aj@{novell.com,opensuse.org}   Twitter: jaegerandi | Identica: jaegerandi    SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg)     Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany      GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Manu has written a very nice article and interviewed Petr about openOffice being the first to release LibreOffice.  We should get that out soon.

I agree with many of the points that have been raised here, but I'd also like to defend Helen, as well as the circumstances that lead up to publication of articles.

In some cases, (more often than not), we're in a rush to publish an article because it may be time-sensitive.  The ability to accurately vet an article does get hampered.  I'm speaking generally here, not just pointing to the LibreOffice issue.

The bigger and overlaying question is how do we do a good vetting off an article before it gets published?  People, for whom an article may affect, are not always readily available and in some cases in the past have been downright unresponsive.  For example, we've had some people even submitting a story-lead to the news team and then disappearing after that.   In one case, someone recently sent an idea for a good article on a project he was working on, and when we asked for additional information so we can create a good article, that person has still yet to respond.

We can be slower in releasing articles in order to get it properly vetted, or we can release articles faster in order to generate the buzz it deserves.  Both have their positives and negatives.   How do we get people more responsive to NEEDINFO aspect, as the news team definitely wants to create an atmosphere that boosts the visibility of openSUSE, and this will be especially a critical issue in the next two weeks with the 11.4 release coming up and a plethora of articles coming out.

Also, in Helen's case, she needed to get the RC2 announcemnt out quickly, and it was weekend when she did so.  My experience is that people are less responsive on weekends (or Mondays even) than during the rest of the week.

I'm not diminishing the harm that the article may have presented to LibreOffice team nor the mistakes that were made here, but trying to find a solution that addresses the higher-level challenge we have on the news team.

Bryen

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