On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Satoru Matsumoto wrote:

Hi Zonker,

First of all, I'd like to appreciate you and your staffs for the effort to establish these guidelines.

Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Have Questions? ===============

Yes. :-)

We can find the description "These Guidelines cover the following marks in word or logo form: openSUSE, SUSE, the Gecko, YaST, and AutoBuild." in "The openSUSE Marks" section.

What do you mean by "the Gecko" ?  Does it mean our awesome mascot "Geeko" in this context ?

Yes.

In general, gecko is an alias name for lizard[1], and in computer world, Gecko also means a layout engine currently developed by Mozilla Corporation[2].  Therefore, IMHO, we had better avoid using the word "the Gecko" in this context.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gecko_(layout_engine)

As you point out, a gecko is a name for a lizard -- and there's no reasonable chance of confusing our gecko with the Gecko layout engine. I'm not a lawyer, but we should be OK here. Just FYI - the mascot, if I understand correctly, was named for Juergen Geck (hence, gecko) one of the former SUSE guys.

By the way, is the name "Geeko" itself registered trademark of Novell ? I had an opportunity to read "Novell® Branding Guidelines - 2007 Edition",  but in that Guidelines, I couldn't find the description "Novell, the Novell logo, openSUSE and the openSUSE logo ... *Geeko* ...are registered trademarks of Novell, Inc...", while I can find the name "Geeko" in various pages on Novell site, e.g.: http://ocw.novell.com/training-resources/geeko-training-videos

Does anyone know the name "Geeko" itself is registered or not ?

Not sure. I'll ask our legal folks on that one. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier openSUSE Community Manager: http://zonker.opensuse.org Blogs: http://blogs.zdnet.com/community | http://www.dissociatedpress.net Twitter: jzb | Identica: jzb http://identi.ca/group/opensuse/members -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On 03/03/2009 08:05 AM, Satoru Matsumoto wrote:

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Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Just FYI - the mascot, if I understand correctly, was named for Juergen Geck (hence, gecko) one of the former SUSE guys.

Well, AFAIK, the name Geeko was selected in a name competition by SuSE in the year 2000. You can read the old slashdot story here: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/02/06/2346258

I guess I shouldn't believe all the stories I hear. :-) Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier jzb@zonker.net http://www.dissociatedpress.net/ Twitter/Identi.ca: jzb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 04 March 2009 10:34:14 Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

On Tuesday 03 March 2009, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Since it's easier than ever to create customized versions of openSUSE, we've seen a lot of interest in the branding of derivative distros. When is it OK to call a distro "openSUSE," or "powered by openSUSE," and when does the branding need to be removed entirely? The guidelines are an attempt to answer as many of those questions as possible in one concise document.

The guidelines are currently relatively strict about modified openSUSE versions. Wouldn't it be good to have something like a "weak" trademark which can be used more freely. So that I could for example call my openSUSE version where I updated KDE to the latest version something like "openSUSE powered" or "smells like openSUSE" or "once was openSUSE" or whatever? This would give openSUSE more visibility.

As Zonker said: We'd like to rework the guidelines. So, let's collect somewhere in the wiki a list of improvements or use cases where the current guidelines are too restrictive. What you propose is an interesting idea, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

On 03/04/2009 05:43 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

I'm a little unhappy with the "Publications" part. I think it's a bit too restrictive to have people ask permission for using the word "openSUSE" in the title of a publication. People should be encouraged to write as much about openSUSE as possible imo.

We're all about having people write about openSUSE, but it's fairly standard practice to require permission to use marks in publication titles. If someone puts out something like "The openSUSE Administration Guide" there's a fair chance of confusion over whether that's a product of the openSUSE Project, or if it's the product of a unaffiliated author.

I have been considering translating it to English, and possibly also getting in touch with a Danish publisher and maybe getting it published in pamphlet format - but now it seems I'd either have to not include "openSUSE" in title, or undergo "Novell censorship".

Let's not be dramatic. Throwing around words like "censorship" doesn't help anyone, and that's very far from what Novell or the openSUSE Project are trying to do. We have a fairly lightweight process, and we're trying to be as open possible while still protecting the mark so it isn't diluted or invalid. If you'd like to publish something with openSUSE in the title, please send a note to permission@novell.com and we'll deal with it as quickly as possible. Odds are, by the time you've gotten to the point of getting a publisher's interest, you'll have the answer - which is most likely going to be a "yes." Also, a lot of publishers are probably going to feel better about having official approval anyway. Finally, as I said when this was announced, this is a first release of the policy, not the final word. If there's something that should be changed, feel free to suggest it on the v2 wiki page here: http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines_v2 We'll be revising the guidelines after we have a better picture of what people want to do and what works best. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier jzb@zonker.net http://www.dissociatedpress.net/ Twitter/Identi.ca: jzb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Am Wed, 4 Mar 2009 10:34:14 +0100 schrieb Cornelius Schumacher :

The guidelines are currently relatively strict about modified openSUSE versions. Wouldn't it be good to have something like a "weak" trademark which can be used more freely. So that I could for example call my openSUSE version where I updated KDE to the latest version something like "openSUSE powered" or "smells like openSUSE" or "once was openSUSE" or whatever? This would give openSUSE more visibility.

Hi all! I've the same impression. I've 3 examples/questions: * I'm one of the maintainers of the hamradio repository. We had the idea for some time to do a customized live-cd/install-cd with the packages of the repo included (tnx to susestudio or kiwi thats easy). Reading the new guidelines means to us - if I read all correctly - we would have to remove all branding and couldn't use openSUSE at all. It would have been great to add the cd to a hamradio magazine (non-profit or donation to openSUSE). Others use this approach for years now: knoppix<->afu-knoppix * team logos - that should work now, right ? Any special recommendations on the graphics? (IIRC was about where to put the text and so on). * Sharing content with other media - e.g. Blog/magazines/podcasts ? Perhaps 1-2 pages as "Annotation" with examples would help ? Best, Jan-simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 04 March 2009 06:39:09 am Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines_v2

Please use the v2 page for discussion & modifications. Thanks!

Protect page OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines to prevent accidental edits. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 04 March 2009, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

On 03/04/2009 04:34 AM, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

...

The guidelines are currently relatively strict about modified openSUSE versions. Wouldn't it be good to have something like a "weak" trademark which can be used more freely. So that I could for example call my openSUSE version where I updated KDE to the latest version something like "openSUSE powered" or "smells like openSUSE" or "once was openSUSE" or whatever? This would give openSUSE more visibility.

I'm very curious to know what openSUSE smells like... is it a rugged manly scent, or more of a fresh-baked cookie smell? I think we'd attract more geeks if it had a robust coffee aroma.

Anyway... I've put up the guidelines on the wiki here:

http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines_v2

Please use the v2 page for discussion & modifications. Thanks!

I added my comment to the discussion page of the v2 version. -- Cornelius Schumacher -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On 03/04/2009 12:26 PM, Michael Loeffler wrote:

Moin, On Wednesday 04 March 2009, Cornelius Schumacher wrote:

...

On Tuesday 03 March 2009, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier wrote:

...

Since it's easier than ever to create customized versions of openSUSE, we've seen a lot of interest in the branding of derivative distros. When is it OK to call a distro "openSUSE," or "powered by openSUSE," and when does the branding need to be removed entirely? The guidelines are an attempt to answer as many of those questions as possible in one concise document. The guidelines are currently relatively strict about modified openSUSE versions. Wouldn't it be good to have something like a "weak" trademark which can be used more freely. So that I could for example call my openSUSE version where I updated KDE to the latest version something like "openSUSE powered" or "smells like openSUSE" or "once was openSUSE" or whatever? This would give openSUSE more visibility.

I'm fully in agreement with that and like to add a few comments to the discussion in general: - a company needs to shield its trademark to maintain ownership of it - we shouldn't be more holy than the pope (german saying - don't know it this translates good into english), eg. Martin's example of the danish openSUSE documentation. Why should Novell have something against this? At least I can't find a reasonable answer

No reason Novell should mind Martin doing Danish documentation (or any other language...), but there's a chance of confusion between "official" guides and documentation / publications produced by the community if we allow any use of openSUSE in publication titles/subtitles. We could do one of three things here: 1) Allow use in publication titles. But this may mean someone chooses to publish "The openSUSE Guide to Administration" (or whatever) which is unclear whether it's a project document, or simply about openSUSE. 2) Request that authors ask permission to use openSUSE in the title. This could be a burden for authors/publishers, but doesn't rule out the use -- it only means they have to say "is this title OK for this work?" This doesn't strike me as unreasonable, but it would be on Novell to provide a quick turnaround. 3) Allow use of openSUSE in publication titles, but specify use cases that aren't permitted: i.e., "The openSUSE guide to..." isn't allowed unless it's from Novell or the project, but "A guide to openSUSE" might be allowed. This might be the best way to go, but it requires us to provide a set of examples and may still lead to questions to permission@novell.com

- with permission@novell.com we do have now an official way to ask for permission, and yes, we (Novell) needs to show quick turn around times here and need to adjust the guidelines if reality requests that

Yep. Best, Zonker -- Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier jzb@zonker.net http://www.dissociatedpress.net/ Twitter/Identi.ca: jzb -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 04 March 2009 07:31:15 pm Kevin Dupuy wrote: ...

Overall, I liked the guidelines. Easy to read, understand, and it's a legal document with the adjective "cool" in it - how often do you see that?

The one line I have some qualms about (mainly that I think it is too broad) is this one:

"We are pleased to permit you to link to opensuse.org from your web site. We have provided several logo graphics for you to choose from. To use these logos you must agree that: ...your web site will not contain content that could be construed as distasteful, offensive, or controversial, and will contain only content that is appropriate for all age groups"

I absolutely understand why this is necessary - and I agree with it. But many members of the openSUSE community or just normal fans have blogs that have political opinions on them - and those opinions could be considered controversial to some people. Perhaps there should be some sort of added language that either defines 'controversial' or add language stating that political opinions shouldn't classify as 'offensive' or 'controversial' unless we're talking some seriously un-cool stuff on the website.

Can you put that on: http://en.opensuse.org/Talk:OpenSUSE_Trademark_Guidelines_v2 -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

On Mar 5, 2009, at 8:15 AM, Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier

wrote: Please also put this on the wiki!

Do you have a suggestion here? I agree that "controversial" may be vague, but I'm not really sure how to tighten it.

Also, narrowing the definition too much may make it difficult later on if someone comes up with a "controversial" use we didn't think of. If nothing else, the 15 years I've been online have impressed upon me the ability of people to be offensive in new and inventive ways.

Best,

Zonker

I'll put it on the wiki when I get home this afternoon :-) Have a fun day, -- Sent from Kevin Yeaux's mobile device. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org