[opensuse-marketing] desktop statistics...

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[opensuse-marketing] Issue #185 is...

Susanne Oberhauser

13 Jul 2011 13 Jul '11

16:05

Hi folks, I'd like to find out how many active openSUSE based desktops are in active use. Here's a proposal that evolved from a discussion during lunch break today: The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very simple url, like opensuse.org/home That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it. For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/). Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank). The trick obviously is the durable cookie. The day the cookie is set is the first log in of this desktop user. Every time the user comes back, the cookie helps to bean count the life span of this desktop. If the cookie is rejected, I suggest to give an explanatory page, trying to convince that this is a good cookie, respecting privacy and all. In that vein I also suggest to *not* store the preferred search engine on the server, but to put that into the cookie, alongside the first access time, plus a random hash. Rationale behind this: There is tons of guesswork how many desktops we have conquered. This proposal replaces that by facts. Feedback appreciated, S. -- Susanne Oberhauser SUSE LINUX Products GmbH +49-911-74053-574 Maxfeldstraße 5 Processes and Infrastructure 90409 Nürnberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

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Manu Gupta

13 Jul 13 Jul

17:41

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Susanne Oberhauser wrote:

...

Hi folks,

I'd like to find out how many active openSUSE based desktops are in active use.

Here's a proposal that evolved from a discussion during lunch break today:

The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very simple url, like opensuse.org/home

That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it.

For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/).

Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank).

The trick obviously is the durable cookie. The day the cookie is set is the first log in of this desktop user. Every time the user comes back, the cookie helps to bean count the life span of this desktop.

If the cookie is rejected, I suggest to give an explanatory page, trying to convince that this is a good cookie, respecting privacy and all.

In that vein I also suggest to *not* store the preferred search engine on the server, but to put that into the cookie, alongside the first access time, plus a random hash.

Rationale behind this: There is tons of guesswork how many desktops we have conquered. This proposal replaces that by facts.

Feedback appreciated,

I really like your idea, but it has to be done by someone just that. Part of it involves 1. making a new page with css and js 2. getting in touch with Wolfgang to include it in firefox as a replacement for homepage, and also other browsers like rekonq or konquerer Part one was discussed earlier but never came into action (without the tracking beacon idea) afaik Just that.

...

S.

-- Susanne Oberhauser SUSE LINUX Products GmbH +49-911-74053-574 Maxfeldstraße 5 Processes and Infrastructure 90409 Nürnberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

-- Regards Manu Gupta -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Bruno Friedmann

20:28

On 07/13/2011 07:41 PM, Manu Gupta wrote:

...

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Susanne Oberhauser wrote:

...
Hi folks,

I'd like to find out how many active openSUSE based desktops are in active use.

Here's a proposal that evolved from a discussion during lunch break today:

The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very simple url, like opensuse.org/home

That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it.

For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/).

Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank).

The trick obviously is the durable cookie. The day the cookie is set is the first log in of this desktop user. Every time the user comes back, the cookie helps to bean count the life span of this desktop.

If the cookie is rejected, I suggest to give an explanatory page, trying to convince that this is a good cookie, respecting privacy and all.

In that vein I also suggest to *not* store the preferred search engine on the server, but to put that into the cookie, alongside the first access time, plus a random hash.

Rationale behind this: There is tons of guesswork how many desktops we have conquered. This proposal replaces that by facts.

Feedback appreciated,

I really like your idea, but it has to be done by someone just that. Part of it involves 1. making a new page with css and js 2. getting in touch with Wolfgang to include it in firefox as a replacement for homepage, and also other browsers like rekonq or konquerer

Part one was discussed earlier but never came into action (without the tracking beacon idea) afaik Just that.

...
S.

-- Susanne Oberhauser SUSE LINUX Products GmbH +49-911-74053-574 Maxfeldstraße 5 Processes and Infrastructure 90409 Nürnberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Even if the idea seems nice, it has lots of limits. Firstly you will never see my browser here, that will not be my homepage :-) Nor for the openSUSE I install. Next you get a cookie, but it's totally false assumption that the desktop is installed how would you differentiate livecd with new cookie each time, or desktop installed and then replace by another distribution by the end user ? How accurate will be your stats based on biased sources ? -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

17 Jul 17 Jul

15:08

On 2011-07-13 Bruno wrote: <snip>

...

The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very

...
simple url, like opensuse.org/home

That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it.

For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/). Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank). <snip> Even if the idea seems nice, it has lots of limits. Firstly you will never see my browser here, that will not be my homepage :-) Nor for the openSUSE I install.

Next you get a cookie, but it's totally false assumption that the desktop is installed how would you differentiate livecd with new cookie each time, or desktop installed and then replace by another distribution by the end user ?

How accurate will be your stats based on biased sources ?

I also wonder - is this more accurate than counting the visits of a system to download.opensuse.org? I thought we had a reasonably accurate way of distinguising systems there? Not every system uses firefox (servers don't, lots of chromium, opera and other users out there). I do like the idea of having a nice custom homepage for firefox so in that regard I'm all for it. And, following manu, I can only ask if anyone here or on the artist list (CC'ed) might be interested in making such a standard homepage?

Susanne Oberhauser

18 Jul 18 Jul

10:10

Jos Poortvliet writes:

...

On 2011-07-13 Bruno wrote: <snip>

...
The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very

...
simple url, like opensuse.org/home

That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it.

For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/). Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank). <snip> Even if the idea seems nice, it has lots of limits. Firstly you will never see my browser here, that will not be my homepage :-) Nor for the openSUSE I install.

When you start the browser for the very first time, for a new install, it will have this homepage. And the homepage will suggest which homepage to use in the future (see below), and it will use redirection to get you to that home page from there on, whenever you start the browser. So it will capture a lot for a lot of peoplke (except for you ;).

...

...
Next you get a cookie, but it's totally false assumption that the desktop is installed how would you differentiate livecd with new cookie each time, or desktop installed and then replace by another distribution by the end user ?

You mean lifecd *without* a local, persistent home? That one has a number of interesting statistics problems anyhow :) even if you use /var/lib/zypp/AnonymousUniqueId, those are a challenge.

...

...
How accurate will be your stats based on biased sources ?

What do you mean by "biased sources"?

...

I also wonder - is this more accurate than counting the visits of a system to download.opensuse.org? I thought we had a reasonably accurate way of distinguising systems there?

Yes, we have statistics counting updates on d.o.o, using /var/lib/zypp/AnonymousUniqueId These count the number of machines, recurring machines. However those do not count the number of desktop logins, which is different. i.e. How many people do really use openSUSE on a regular basis as their desktop? Do we mainly have a server operating system with few desktop users? Or is there a large share of regular desktop users out there?

...

Not every system uses firefox (servers don't, lots of chromium, opera and other users out there).

Oh, the mention of ff was just a random example. This will work for all browsers we ship ourselves. This is about a default landing page for _any_ openSUSE provided browser.

...

I do like the idea of having a nice custom homepage for firefox so in that regard I'm all for it. And, following manu, I can only ask if anyone here or on the artist list (CC'ed) might be interested in making such a standard homepage?

I think it should be very simple design, just a number of large buttons Welcome to openSUSE. Please choose a default browser homepage: search google search bing search yahoo use facebook blank page customize other something along such lines: We then store that selection in the cookie and each future browser start goes like this: show nothing fetch the cookie redirect to the cookie target that's it. S. -- Susanne Oberhauser SUSE LINUX Products GmbH +49-911-74053-574 Maxfeldstraße 5 Processes and Infrastructure 90409 Nürnberg GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

13:21

Am 18.07.2011 12:10, schrieb Susanne Oberhauser:

...

I think it should be very simple design, just a number of large buttons

Welcome to openSUSE. Please choose a default browser homepage:

search google search bing search yahoo use facebook blank page customize other

something like this? http://www.lhag.bplaced.com/~kdl/files/openSUSE thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

13:17

On Monday, July 18, 2011 15:21:22 Kim Leyendecker wrote:

...

Am 18.07.2011 12:10, schrieb Susanne Oberhauser:

...
I think it should be very simple design, just a number of large buttons

Welcome to openSUSE.

Please choose a default browser homepage: search google search bing search yahoo use facebook blank page customize other

something like this?

http://www.lhag.bplaced.com/~kdl/files/openSUSE

There needs to be a prominent link to openSUSE documentation and news. Also, the "Search google" page IMO should be a page that is openSUSE branded with a link to openSUSE and for example the subject of the last three stories from news.opensuse.org - still it needs to load quickly. Thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Program Manager openSUSE aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

13:43

Am 18.07.2011 15:17, schrieb Andreas Jaeger:

...

There needs to be a prominent link to openSUSE documentation and news.

Also, the "Search google" page IMO should be a page that is openSUSE branded with a link to openSUSE and for example the subject of the last three stories from news.opensuse.org - still it needs to load quickly.

okay, why not a personal google search page instead? thanks Kim -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

17 Jul 17 Jul

15:46

Am 13.07.2011 18:05, schrieb Susanne Oberhauser:

...

Hi folks,

I'd like to find out how many active openSUSE based desktops are in active use.

Here's a proposal that evolved from a discussion during lunch break today:

The default home page of all browsers on opensuse points to a very simple url, like opensuse.org/home

That page is so usefull that almost all users will appreciate it.

For example, it just consists of a very plain and simple search bar (like this well-known one: http://www.google.de/firefox/).

Or, maybe even better, it simply offers a number of search engines, and it will, based on a cookie, from here on replace itself with that search engine --- or even a blank page (about:blank).

The trick obviously is the durable cookie. The day the cookie is set is the first log in of this desktop user. Every time the user comes back, the cookie helps to bean count the life span of this desktop.

If the cookie is rejected, I suggest to give an explanatory page, trying to convince that this is a good cookie, respecting privacy and all.

In that vein I also suggest to *not* store the preferred search engine on the server, but to put that into the cookie, alongside the first access time, plus a random hash.

Rationale behind this: There is tons of guesswork how many desktops we have conquered. This proposal replaces that by facts.

Feedback appreciated,

S.

At first, it seems like a good idea to find out how many desktop users openSUSE has, indeed. *But* I´m getting kinda nervous when you´re talking about cookies. This could be misunderstood by the community, _even_ it´s a "good" one. And what´s with these people, who install a fresh openSUSE image, start the PC, connect to the internet and do install a new browser as their first action on the new system? There´s SUSE Greeter isn´t it? And it starts on every installed KDE desktop (at least) right after the installation (I don´t know how it´s like under GNOME and the other desktops, but I think we can talk to the GNOME team, if necessary.) Why not implementate a survey on SUSE Greeter? This survey could contain the following questions? * Which desktop do you use (KDE, GNOME, LXDE, Xfce etc.) * Which browser do you use * Are you happy with openSUSE? * What can we do better in future? With this, you not just get the information how many desktops are running with openSUSE, you also get a kind of feedback, which is, IMHO, much more important then every statistic. I hope this helps, -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Klaas Freitag

18 Jul 18 Jul

14:51

Am Sonntag 17 Juli 2011, 17:46:15 schrieb Kim Leyendecker: Hi,

...

At first, it seems like a good idea to find out how many desktop users openSUSE has, indeed. *But* I´m getting kinda nervous when you´re talking about cookies. This could be misunderstood by the community, _even_ it´s a "good" one. There is hardly a thing like a "good" cookie IMO. Even if its for a good reason in our opinion, it is data that is associated to an IP address which (at least in germany) can be followed back to personal identity under circumstances.

There´s SUSE Greeter isn´t it? And it starts on every installed KDE desktop (at least) right after the installation (I don´t know how it´s like under GNOME and the other desktops, but I think we can talk to the GNOME team, if necessary.) Why not implementate a survey on SUSE Greeter?

Good point, but I instead wonder why we do not kill SUSE Greeter and use the first browser page instead. That would be more cool content, more recent, more flexible. And the number of not connected desktops is probably not very high any more.

...

This survey could contain the following questions?

* Which desktop do you use (KDE, GNOME, LXDE, Xfce etc.) * Which browser do you use * Are you happy with openSUSE? * What can we do better in future? This can be cool if somebody really reads and processes it.

regards, Klaas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker

16:18

Am 18.07.2011 16:51, schrieb Klaas Freitag:

...

Good point, but I instead wonder why we do not kill SUSE Greeter and use the first browser page instead. That would be more cool content, more recent, more flexible. And the number of not connected desktops is probably not very high any more.

Indeed. SUSE Greeter becomes really annoying when you have a low level machine, or something created with VirtualBox, VMWare etc. The start page is a cool idea, really, the only thing that makes me a bit holding against it is the cookie. It just doesn´t seem to be right to me. thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

20 Jul 20 Jul

23:56

On Monday, July 18, 2011 09:51:36 AM Klaas Freitag wrote:

...

Good point, but I instead wonder why we do not kill SUSE Greeter and use the first browser page instead. That would be more cool content, more recent, more flexible. And the number of not connected desktops is probably not very high any more.

For those that can't connect there should be browser page anyway that will link to local docs in html format, most notably troubleshooting guide for network, but also there can be sound and graphics troubleshooting sections. It would help to have such page in a root of installation media, so one can find it easily, and use it on another computer. It should provide links to docs, forums, wiki, and IRC via webchat. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-marketing+help@opensuse.org

Jos Poortvliet

27 Jul 27 Jul

04:50

On 2011-07-18 Klaas wrote:

...

Am Sonntag 17 Juli 2011, 17:46:15 schrieb Kim Leyendecker: Hi,

...
At first, it seems like a good idea to find out how many desktop users openSUSE has, indeed. *But* I´m getting kinda nervous when you´re talking about cookies. This could be misunderstood by the community, _even_ it´s a "good" one.

There is hardly a thing like a "good" cookie IMO. Even if its for a good reason in our opinion, it is data that is associated to an IP address which (at least in germany) can be followed back to personal identity under circumstances.

...
There´s SUSE Greeter isn´t it? And it starts on every installed KDE desktop (at least) right after the installation (I don´t know how it´s like under GNOME and the other desktops, but I think we can talk to the GNOME team, if necessary.) Why not implementate a survey on SUSE Greeter?

Good point, but I instead wonder why we do not kill SUSE Greeter and use the first browser page instead. That would be more cool content, more recent, more flexible. And the number of not connected desktops is probably not very high any more.

...
This survey could contain the following questions?

* Which desktop do you use (KDE, GNOME, LXDE, Xfce etc.) * Which browser do you use * Are you happy with openSUSE? * What can we do better in future?

This can be cool if somebody really reads and processes it.

Could be a always-changing poll on the page we send ppl too, instead of a survey. So it wouldn't need anything special that way...

...

regards,

Klaas

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12 comments

8 participants

participants (8)

Andreas Jaeger
Bruno Friedmann
Jos Poortvliet
Kim Leyendecker
Klaas Freitag
Manu Gupta
Rajko M.
Susanne Oberhauser