Hello, I'll just started to use skim/scim (first for my first steps in Chinese and as support for the Chinese members in our group). (I've the new version from projects/m17n/ on a SUSE Linux 9.2 system with de_DE.UTF-8.) In the skim configuration dialog I can enter keyboard shortcuts to enable/disable scim and to change to the next input, but they don't seem to be effective. Is there a simple method to disable/enable scim completely? I mean in a way I can quickly re-enable it. I tend to hit Shift+space rather frequently and get then some nice characters, e.g., instead of leaving vi (":q"). At "Scim server|input methods" of Skim config, I can enable/disable input methods, but it does not seem to have any effect on both the menu shown by the kicker applet or on the methods shown when cycling through. What is the difference between Keyboard and German/Keyboard>German/European by the way? Question of the complete novice in Chinese: Next to the input parameter field I see with "intelligent pinyin" a button labeled "中" and three other symbols still unknown to me. What is ment by those? By the way, I'll completely miss a description of how the input methods work. I figured out that, e.g., unicode works by entering the entering the hex code of the character, but what means "unicode", "utf-8", "de" next to it? Tobias
Tobias Burnus
I'll just started to use skim/scim (first for my first steps in Chinese and as support for the Chinese members in our group). (I've the new version from projects/m17n/ on a SUSE Linux 9.2 system with de_DE.UTF-8.)
In the skim configuration dialog I can enter keyboard shortcuts to enable/disable scim and to change to the next input, but they don't seem to be effective.
Did you click on "Reload config"?
Is there a simple method to disable/enable scim completely? I mean in a way I can quickly re-enable it. I tend to hit Shift+space rather frequently and get then some nice characters, e.g., instead of leaving vi (":q").
If you have the latest packages from projects/m17n, you can change the trigger key from the command line like this: scim-config-agent -s /Hotkeys/FrontEnd/Trigger=Control+Alt+Shift+space scim-config-agent --reload You could put such commands to set the trigger key to some weird, inconvenient key combination which you cannot hit by accident in to a script and execute such a script with a button on your KDE desktop for example. Then you would have a button to disable and another button to enable scim. Currently it is *not* possible to disable scim by making the value of /Hotkeys/FrontEnd/Trigger empty, in that case scim uses Control+Space which is hardcoded in the source code. Maybe it should be allowed to disable keybindings by setting them to empty? Zhe Su, what do you think?
At "Scim server|input methods" of Skim config, I can enable/disable input methods, but it does not seem to have any effect on both the menu shown by the kicker applet or on the methods shown when cycling through.
Looks like you need to reload the config.
What is the difference between Keyboard and German/Keyboard>German/European by the way?
I think none.
Question of the complete novice in Chinese: Next to the input parameter field I see with "intelligent pinyin" a button labeled "中" and three other symbols still unknown to me. What is ment by those?
The symbol which looks like a crescent moon toggles between full width and half width. You can use that for example to write full with LAT IN. The next button to the right which shows a period and a comma toggles between the full width and the half width forms for punctuation.
By the way, I'll completely miss a description of how the input methods work.
Yes, some more documentation is needed. Some nice descriptions made by users are already available on the internet and I plan to add some description of the various scim input methods to my home page as well after SuSE 9.3 is released.
I figured out that, e.g., unicode works by entering the entering the hex code of the character, but what means "unicode", "utf-8",
No, the 4 digit Unicode code point, i.e. UCS2 (=UTF-16 in the BMP).
"de" next to it?
"de" next to what?
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Mike FABIAN
Hello, Mike FABIAN wrote:
In the skim configuration dialog I can enter keyboard shortcuts to enable/disable scim and to change to the next input, but they don't seem to be effective.
Did you click on "Reload config"?
I've played a bit around, especially with the input methods since they are easier to see. (I use kconfig and scim-panel-kde.) Setting the values and clicking Ok, Apply does not change anything. Running now scim-config-agent --reload, reloads the modules but doesn't change anything menu wise in skim. Then I tried to restart skim. There is _no_ option in the kicker applet nor in the scim configation dialog. What I had to do was: (a) adding the reload icon to the symbol bar and (b) enable scim. Then I could click on the reload bar which caused skim to crash and prevented any further keystroke. Something similar happens if I dare to click on Exit in the kicker app.
scim-config-agent -s /Hotkeys/FrontEnd/Trigger=Control+Alt+Shift+space scim-config-agent --reload
tob@tux:~> scim-config-agent -s /Hotkeys/FrontEnd/Trigger=Control+Alt+Shift+space Set data success. tob@tux:~> scim-config-agent --reload Configuration reload request has been sent to the running scim. tob@tux:~> scim-config-agent -g /Hotkeys/FrontEnd/Trigger Control+Alt+Shift+space Hmm, ctrl-space still activates the mode, but shift-alt-space does now as well; but the skim config had still the old option (ctrl-space and shift-space, the latter never worked for me). (Changed that but didn't hit reload 'cause I don't want to restart X11.) ps shows by the way these processes: skim /usr/lib/scim-1.0/scim-helper-manager /usr/lib/scim-1.0/scim-launcher -d -c kconfig -e all -f socket --no-stay /usr/lib/scim-1.0/scim-launcher -d -c socket -e socket -f x11
Maybe it should be allowed to disable keybindings by setting them to empty? Zhe Su, what do you think?
Hmm, better would be some methode to disable it which leaves the keys untouched.
Looks like you need to reload the config.
Well, does not seem to work; but I actually didn't try reload in skim ...
Question of the complete novice in Chinese: Next to the input parameter field I see with "intelligent pinyin" a button labeled "中" and three other symbols still unknown to me. What is ment by those?
The symbol which looks like a crescent moon toggles between full width and half width. You can use that for example to write full with LAT IN. The next button to the right which shows a period and a comma toggles between the full width and the half width forms for punctuation.
Well, I actually ment what happens when you click on the "中" button and toggle it. But thanks to make me fully understand how half/full symbols work.
I figured out that, e.g., unicode works by entering the entering the hex code of the character, but what means "unicode", "utf-8",
No, the 4 digit Unicode code point, i.e. UCS2 (=UTF-16 in the BMP).
Well, I ment the hexencoded number shown in the unicode charts at http://www.unicode.org/charts/ since I saw somewhere the decimal version of it (Word or OpenOffice, I forgot).
"de" next to it?
"de" next to what?
I don't see it in the moment, maybe it was the gnome version which I think I had at one point (I think I clicked exit in the kicker app and then I had suddenly two kicker apps, one of which was seemingly the gnome version.') Tobias
Tobias Burnus
Question of the complete novice in Chinese: Next to the input parameter field I see with "intelligent pinyin" a button labeled "中" and three other symbols still unknown to me. What is ment by those?
The symbol which looks like a crescent moon toggles between full width and half width. You can use that for example to write full with LAT IN. The next button to the right which shows a period and a comma toggles between the full width and the half width forms for punctuation.
Well, I actually ment what happens when you click on the "中" button and toggle it. But thanks to make me fully understand how half/full symbols work.
Ah, I see. When clicking on the 中 button, you get 中 -> Chinese 简 -> simplified Chinese 繁 -> traditional Chinese 英 -> English Apparently this intelligent Pinyin input method can be tuned to prefer simplified or traditional Chinese. I don't know any details here as I don't speak Chinese and therefore don't use this input method.
I figured out that, e.g., unicode works by entering the entering the hex code of the character, but what means "unicode", "utf-8",
No, the 4 digit Unicode code point, i.e. UCS2 (=UTF-16 in the BMP).
Well, I ment the hexencoded number shown in the unicode charts at http://www.unicode.org/charts/ since I saw somewhere the decimal version of it (Word or OpenOffice, I forgot).
Yes, the hex numbers in these unicode charts are the same as UCS2 or
UTF-16.
Until know I didn't notice that the button labeled "Unicode"
in the "RAW CODE" input method can be toggled to "UTF-8".
If you select that, you can input the UTF-8 code instead of the 4
digit Unicode code point. For example you can input 直by it's UTF-8
sequence "e79bb4" instead of it's Unicode code point "76f4".
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Mike FABIAN
Tobias Burnus
(I use kconfig and scim-panel-kde.) Setting the values and clicking Ok, Apply does not change anything. Running now scim-config-agent --reload, reloads the modules but doesn't change anything menu wise in skim.
Ah, you use skim.
I have not yet tried this option reloading stuff with skim, usually I
use only scim with the gtk panel.
I'll try now ...
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Mike FABIAN
Hello, Mike FABIAN wrote:
(I use kconfig and scim-panel-kde.) Setting the values and clicking Ok, Apply does not change anything. Running now scim-config-agent --reload, reloads the modules but doesn't change anything menu wise in skim.
Ah, you use skim.
I have not yet tried this option reloading stuff with skim, usually I use only scim with the gtk panel.
I switched to scim (no skim) anymore and it improved, but: - used input methods: I can call reload from the menu plus call --reload. If I choose exit, it restartes but the hotkey does no longer work. If I kill everything scim related, then the applet restarts (automatically) and I finally get the updated input method. => Reported to scim bugtracker. - somehow the trigger commands (control-s) have problems after such a forced restart. I think I will stay with scim and try very hard _not_ to set options which require the restart of scim since this seems to cause problems. Hopefully, in SUSE 9.3 it will work better. Tobias PS: The URL given in the scim.rpm file (http://scim.freedesktop.org/) should be replaced by http://www.scim-im.org/ which is more useful. scim-qtimm-0.8.5-2.1 contains the file /usr/bin/edittest. Is that one really useful?
Tobias Burnus
PS: The URL given in the scim.rpm file (http://scim.freedesktop.org/) should be replaced by http://www.scim-im.org/ which is more useful.
That is already done for SuSE 9.3. But this part of the .spec file (and some other parts like the description, summary, authors, ...) are fetched from a database when building the package with the SuSE autobuild system. I cannot edit this in the .spec file, only in the database. When I build scim packages for SuSE 9.2, the old values from the SuSE 9.2 database will be inserted. I have already updated this in the database for SuSE 9.3 but the database for SuSE 9.2 is read only for me. When I build scim for SuSE 9.3 from the same .spec file, I will get rpm packages with the correct, new values.
scim-qtimm-0.8.5-2.1 contains the file /usr/bin/edittest. Is that one really useful?
I like to use it for testing, therefore included it.
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Mike FABIAN
Tobias Burnus
- used input methods: I can call reload from the menu plus call --reload.
After that your new hotkey settings should be active. At least that works fine for me. Do you experience problems already here?
If I choose exit, it restartes but the hotkey does no longer work.
Better don't use that exit button in the scim-panel, as it kills scim. GTK2 and QT applications (which use scim via the input module plugin support) will restart scim, but old-style X applications which use scim via XIM will not restart scim. And such XIM clients like xterm, mlterm, java, (X)Emacs, ... will often hang if their XIM server is suddenly killed. This "exit" button is only there in a debugging build of scim. It is not very useful though. Currently I build the scim packages with --enable-debug because it is helpful to track down problems. Maybe I switch that of for the SuSE 9.3 release.
If I kill everything scim related,
That is also problematic, for the same reasons as using this "exit" button.
then the applet restarts (automatically) and I finally get the updated input method. => Reported to scim bugtracker.
Restarting everything scim related cleanly is indeed a bit difficult. I often have the problem that the scim-panel-gtk behaves strangely after a killall scim-launcher; killall scim-panel-gtk; scim -d often some buttons are missing or the fonts are too small. Killing scim-panel-gtk once again often helps. Currently the only really clean way to restart scim seems to be to exit all applications using scim first (usually that means to exit your X session as well) and then restart.
- somehow the trigger commands (control-s) have problems after such a forced restart.
I cannot remember that I ever had that problem, but as I wrote above, scim often behaves strange after a forced restart. I have no problems with reloading the options though. At least I can change the key bindings and then reload the options either from the panel or from the command line without problems.
I think I will stay with scim and try very hard _not_ to set options which require the restart of scim since this seems to cause problems.
There are options which do indeed require a restart and then it may become a bit difficult if you want to avoid to restart your X session (usually works for me though. But sometimes I need to kill and restart several times).
Hopefully, in SUSE 9.3 it will work better.
Of course we are trying to make it work as good as possible and
reports from users like you certainly help a lot.
Zhe Su, the scim author does a wonderful job with scim, although there
are still some minor bugs, I think it is great already and a huge
improvement over the input methods we used by default for SuSE Linux
<= 9.1.
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Mike FABIAN
Hello, Mike FABIAN wrote:
Tobias Burnus
さんは書きました: used input methods: I can call reload from the menu plus call --reload.
After that your new hotkey settings should be active. At least that works fine for me. Do you experience problems already here?
Changing hotkeys - at least from the commandline - works, enabling/disabling the input methods does not.
If I choose exit, it restartes but the hotkey does no longer work.
Better don't use that exit button in the scim-panel, as it kills scim. GTK2 and QT applications (which use scim via the input module plugin support) will restart scim, but old-style X applications which use scim via XIM will not restart scim. And such XIM clients like xterm, mlterm, java, (X)Emacs, ... will often hang if their XIM server is suddenly killed.
Ok. That is what I see.
Restarting everything scim related cleanly is indeed a bit difficult. I often have the problem that the scim-panel-gtk behaves strangely after a
killall scim-launcher; killall scim-panel-gtk; scim -d
often some buttons are missing or the fonts are too small. Killing scim-panel-gtk once again often helps.
Hmm, maybe a scim-restart script would be useful, killing skim as well.
I think I will stay with scim and try very hard _not_ to set options which require the restart of scim since this seems to cause problems.
There are options which do indeed require a restart and then it may become a bit difficult if you want to avoid to restart your X session (usually works for me though. But sometimes I need to kill and restart several times).
Ok. I'll try your advice on what to kill and what not.
Zhe Su, the scim author does a wonderful job with scim, although there are still some minor bugs, I think it is great already and a huge improvement over the input methods we used by default for SuSE Linux <= 9.1.
Yes, I wagely remember a user for whom I setup a Chinese input system; it was only for Chinese, more cumbersome to use and to setup and didn't look as sleek! Tobias
Tobias Burnus
Maybe it should be allowed to disable keybindings by setting them to empty? Zhe Su, what do you think?
Hmm, better would be some methode to disable it which leaves the keys untouched.
For the trigger hotkey, maybe.
But I think it might be useful if empty values for all configurable
keybindings were allowed. Maybe one does not need a certain function
at all and doesn't want to have it on any key in order not to hit it
accidentally. Then it might be nice to make the key binding empty in
the scim configuration dialog.
Currently it is not possible to make such key bindings empty, if
nothing is found in the configuration files, fallback key bindings
which are hard coded in the source code are used.
I think this would be easy to change to accept empty values to be able
to disable certain key bindings, but would that make sense?
Zhe, what do you think?
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Mike FABIAN
participants (2)
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Mike FABIAN
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Tobias Burnus