[opensuse-kernel] Maintenance update plan for openSUSE 13.2 kernel?
Hi, [maybe this had been already discussed somewhere but I couldn't find it, so...] What is the plan for (maintenance) updates of openSUSE 13.2 kernel? Will we stick with 3.16.x kernel, or will we upgrade to 3.17.x (and later one, eventually)? thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 10/28/14, 6:30 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Hi,
[maybe this had been already discussed somewhere but I couldn't find it, so...]
What is the plan for (maintenance) updates of openSUSE 13.2 kernel? Will we stick with 3.16.x kernel, or will we upgrade to 3.17.x (and later one, eventually)?
I don't think we've discussed changing anything, so it'd be 3.16.x. This is a topic that comes up for every release, but it's always brought up *after* the release. If we want to update the kernel version mid-release, that's a topic for discussion but it needs to happen well before release so it's communicated clearly. It's not a topic I've been interested in driving since there are costs and benefits to both sides and the status quo means less work for me. :) So, should we have that conversation now for 13.3? The general opensuse list should probably be involved for that. - -Jeff - -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUT6TqAAoJEB57S2MheeWy/akQAKVvlAUG6m7rEzfX+glAC7/P 1Oo3Xy5k6FKtsR0W+faBJJstN+5r+0zh2IOSKpVhgdnArhDrj+UZiWX1FeyX1788 hYPpJd28gV0erNi8Ep3DY3pnpYXjR5u0txMqUkxXlfz9mRvmnCvVhym4SuP54HnV kRFAzIXHlQhKOK8CwO+In/uzmV53z0CFZ233NnzZwSu8afCK3EAFtBMxJzMLY2pY 5qkZUOgVjo3uEARgRXbya81DGG8BtssHXd7A4F6dbCOorI/NzzqiZMkIGCg4q5Ye 1H0OIPcFqbL13RMRLDIKcUWpgdLoUZDCLl6W3lWrxEA0zaivEq1VApIBFQZ2PIh6 ThJrUBh7pUegiIfEz/Com6slKZzjrqHJh77bOsFyusEo+Ur5rFbJpB+KZzJVAZ+1 u3v1u1ldUqBoyUWX4oQF9MircRvLW8+1yCvCiWyUF/dsMTxqYUx7s0gK8fxkcn0V Ho6hpjGjJ3sdAJoUukTF1F+uX8/NpHogr0BbvddPgSPjy57lp1EKbqchZBkDqFN3 Z2a4+29c6xMe8daIPQneG/Ra0C2qvnk3iYLONTdXfJ5JrHzFA/aAb7+ygsyGrXK9 QjYlbdVKs0dvqDOlfT8gUcOtbHdRD4ARKA2O0LU3xu5YO7gzGRrpn9QGmTSgScNR B+C8C3oNrFsTVUIEmj5b =z6/U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:15:07 -0400, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
On 10/28/14, 6:30 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Hi,
[maybe this had been already discussed somewhere but I couldn't find it, so...]
What is the plan for (maintenance) updates of openSUSE 13.2 kernel? Will we stick with 3.16.x kernel, or will we upgrade to 3.17.x (and later one, eventually)?
I don't think we've discussed changing anything, so it'd be 3.16.x.
This is a topic that comes up for every release, but it's always brought up *after* the release. If we want to update the kernel version mid-release, that's a topic for discussion but it needs to happen well before release so it's communicated clearly. It's not a topic I've been interested in driving since there are costs and benefits to both sides and the status quo means less work for me. :)
Well, following the stable kernel would be even less work for you :) Seriously, if we'll keep 3.16.x line, it means essentially that we'll discontinue the maintenance soon after the release, since we won't receive stable kernel backports -- a similar situation like openSUSE 13.1, and it was horrible, IMHO. Canonical did a pretty good job for this with 3.11 kernel, but we have obviously no such resource to do in a similar way. That said, if we don't want to fall into the very same pit, I'd vote for following the stable until it hits longtime release.
So, should we have that conversation now for 13.3? The general opensuse list should probably be involved for that.
Definitely. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/28/2014 09:26 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:15:07 -0400, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
On 10/28/14, 6:30 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
Hi,
[maybe this had been already discussed somewhere but I couldn't find it, so...]
What is the plan for (maintenance) updates of openSUSE 13.2 kernel? Will we stick with 3.16.x kernel, or will we upgrade to 3.17.x (and later one, eventually)?
I don't think we've discussed changing anything, so it'd be 3.16.x.
This is a topic that comes up for every release, but it's always brought up *after* the release. If we want to update the kernel version mid-release, that's a topic for discussion but it needs to happen well before release so it's communicated clearly. It's not a topic I've been interested in driving since there are costs and benefits to both sides and the status quo means less work for me. :)
Well, following the stable kernel would be even less work for you :)
Seriously, if we'll keep 3.16.x line, it means essentially that we'll discontinue the maintenance soon after the release, since we won't receive stable kernel backports -- a similar situation like openSUSE 13.1, and it was horrible, IMHO.
Canonical did a pretty good job for this with 3.11 kernel, but we have obviously no such resource to do in a similar way.
That said, if we don't want to fall into the very same pit, I'd vote for following the stable until it hits longtime release.
So, should we have that conversation now for 13.3? The general opensuse list should probably be involved for that.
Definitely.
I have little at stake in this discussion because I am usually running developmental kernels; however, please be careful before adopting Canonical's methods. With their 3.13 kernels (at least), they are backporting API changes from later kernels. For those of us that support out-of-kernel drivers, this is a nightmare. Not only does the source need compiler directives to detect the kernel version, it also needs to check the Ubuntu release information! What a mess!!!!! Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:26:10PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:15:07 -0400, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
This is a topic that comes up for every release, but it's always brought up *after* the release. If we want to update the kernel version mid-release, that's a topic for discussion but it needs to happen well before release so it's communicated clearly. It's not a topic I've been interested in driving since there are costs and benefits to both sides and the status quo means less work for me. :)
Well, following the stable kernel would be even less work for you :)
From one point of view, yes. From another... For example, moving from 3.16 to 3.17 brings API changes which break build of VMware and VirtualBox modules (and maybe also other third-party ones). For illustration, this is summary of module audit I've done for the 3.12 (SLE12) based kernel I plan to use for evergreen 13.1:
- 3 modules dropped as "not used any more" - 2 modules dropped as obsoleted by other module/feature - 8 modules merged into one new - 2 modules renamed - 1 module now unconditionally linked into the image These are only changes from mainline between 3.11 and 3.12 (affecting modules from 13.1 packages), there were also some SuSE specific ones. Add API changes, kABI changes etc. I'm not trying to say that these issues can't be handled and I'm not trying to say upgrading to newer kernel version would be wrong. I just want to point out that it is wrong to think that "just following stable" is easy. Sure, I used newer kernel on three of my 13.1 systems for some time, 3.16 worked fine without any issue and 3.17 only required patching VMware host modules. But providing newer kernel to everyone in an update requires more careful approach. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Tue, 28 Oct 2014 23:24:14 +0100, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 03:26:10PM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Tue, 28 Oct 2014 10:15:07 -0400, Jeff Mahoney wrote:
This is a topic that comes up for every release, but it's always brought up *after* the release. If we want to update the kernel version mid-release, that's a topic for discussion but it needs to happen well before release so it's communicated clearly. It's not a topic I've been interested in driving since there are costs and benefits to both sides and the status quo means less work for me. :)
Well, following the stable kernel would be even less work for you :)
From one point of view, yes. From another... For example, moving from 3.16 to 3.17 brings API changes which break build of VMware and VirtualBox modules (and maybe also other third-party ones). For illustration, this is summary of module audit I've done for the 3.12 (SLE12) based kernel I plan to use for evergreen 13.1:
- 3 modules dropped as "not used any more" - 2 modules dropped as obsoleted by other module/feature - 8 modules merged into one new - 2 modules renamed - 1 module now unconditionally linked into the image
These are only changes from mainline between 3.11 and 3.12 (affecting modules from 13.1 packages), there were also some SuSE specific ones. Add API changes, kABI changes etc.
I'm not trying to say that these issues can't be handled and I'm not trying to say upgrading to newer kernel version would be wrong. I just want to point out that it is wrong to think that "just following stable" is easy. Sure, I used newer kernel on three of my 13.1 systems for some time, 3.16 worked fine without any issue and 3.17 only required patching VMware host modules. But providing newer kernel to everyone in an update requires more careful approach.
Right, kABI change and module changes are the biggest downside of "following stable" method. OTOH, we don't need to move forward immediately when a new stable kernel appears. The only requirement is rather when we won't get any new stable updates. So, we can wait for a while until kABI issues on most drivers get fixed. 3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release. That is, in less than two months after openSUSE 13.2 release, we shall face the problem, and have to decide whether to leave it as wild west like openSUSE 13.1 kernel or not. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one. So 3.16 is literally dead. -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2. The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right? Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/30/2014, 07:39 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
Hi, this is not desired of course, but it is usually what happens :/. As far as I can see, opensuse kernel repos, if not based upon -stable, receive only CVE fixes. thanks, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:39:02AM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
Canonical guys announced yesterday they will be maintaining their 3.16 stable branch which gives us one more option. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On 10/31/2014, 12:16 PM, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:39:02AM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
Canonical guys announced yesterday they will be maintaining their 3.16 stable branch which gives us one more option.
But /me personally does not feel confident with their kernel as they do not follow the stable rules at all. This is why G-K-H asked to mark that tree as -something. That said, do not expect *me* to merge the tree to our releases :). thanks, -- js suse labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:39:02AM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
I'd like to add some end user perspective (clearly lacking background on the technical problems of a maintenance upgrade): openSUSE 13.2 has been announced basically everywhere on the net to be *released* with kernel 3.17, even on official openSUSE blogs/pages. If one searches for "opensuse 13.2 kernel version" and reads the articles, not just headlines, the picture one gets is that the beta/rc1 has 3.16 but final will have 3.17. So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging. Waiting for a 13.3 release might be a gamble as 13.2 took somewhat longer than the usual 8 months and https://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime states that the future release schedule beyond 13.2 is unclear. This is what the (partly educated) end user might see... Regards, J Brauchle
On 31.10.2014 15:36, Joschi Brauchle wrote:
So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging.
But it is still better than things accidentally broken with 3.16-3.17 migration. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 31 October 2014 13.36:12 Joschi Brauchle wrote:
On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 07:39:02AM +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
On 10/29/2014, 09:08 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
3.16.x will be discontinued after 3.18 release.
3.17 actually. 3.16.7 is supposed to be the last one.
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
I'd like to add some end user perspective (clearly lacking background on the technical problems of a maintenance upgrade):
openSUSE 13.2 has been announced basically everywhere on the net to be *released* with kernel 3.17, even on official openSUSE blogs/pages. If one searches for "opensuse 13.2 kernel version" and reads the articles, not just headlines, the picture one gets is that the beta/rc1 has 3.16 but final will have 3.17. Once RC1 is reached it has always been the story to use what was there at that time. Still you can open a bug for that.
So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging.
That's one perception, the other one would be uh they launch a kernel for which none of tier module are tested or existant ... Choose your poison.
Waiting for a 13.3 release might be a gamble as 13.2 took somewhat longer than the usual 8 months and https://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime states that the future release schedule beyond 13.2 is unclear. Will be certainly a year release soon, (at least I'm in favor off)
Then that's why there will be tumbleweed ... Get all the new stuff stable & tested on your computer. Or take the risk to follow kernel-stable on your computer. (Excellent repo btw)
This is what the (partly educated) end user might see... Add education. Regards, J Brauchle
-- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Board, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot
Hi Bruno, Le Friday 31 October 2014 à 14:46 +0100, Bruno Friedmann a écrit :
On Friday 31 October 2014 13.36:12 Joschi Brauchle wrote:
openSUSE 13.2 has been announced basically everywhere on the net to be *released* with kernel 3.17, even on official openSUSE blogs/pages. If one searches for "opensuse 13.2 kernel version" and reads the articles, not just headlines, the picture one gets is that the beta/rc1 has 3.16 but final will have 3.17.
I read exactly the same and was as surprised and disappointed as you are when seeing that openSUSE 13.2 would finally have kernel 3.16.
Once RC1 is reached it has always been the story to use what was there at that time. Still you can open a bug for that.
That makes sense, but then RC1 should have been using kernel 3.17, which was already available. If the timing was too short, then delaying the RC1 by a few days would certainly have been a better choice than shipping with an already old kernel. -- Jean Delvare SUSE L3 Support -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 01:36:12PM +0100, Joschi Brauchle wrote:
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
I'd like to add some end user perspective (clearly lacking background on the technical problems of a maintenance upgrade):
Thanks, your perspective is valuable.
openSUSE 13.2 has been announced basically everywhere on the net to be *released* with kernel 3.17, even on official openSUSE blogs/pages. If one searches for "opensuse 13.2 kernel version" and reads the articles, not just headlines, the picture one gets is that the beta/rc1 has 3.16 but final will have 3.17.
Looking at the release schedule of 13.1 and the time when 3.17 was released, "going for 3.17" was unrealistic at the time of RC1 milestone. Switching kernel without enough time to do QA up to the same level as the previous kernel got is hazardous.
So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging.
Do you have an example where the 3.17 kernel enables HW that does not work with 3.16 ? This has been probably mentioned, the obs://Kernel:stable repository follows the kernel.org stable releases so if you really need the newer kernel, adding this repository is straightforward.
Waiting for a 13.3 release might be a gamble as 13.2 took somewhat longer than the usual 8 months and https://en.opensuse.org/Lifetime states that the future release schedule beyond 13.2 is unclear.
I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind that - IOW from a user perspective, I should wait for the next distro release if I want a newer and supported kernel? (Compared to adding the OBS repository with kind of unsupported packages.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2014-10-31 at 14:59 +0100, David Sterba wrote:
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 01:36:12PM +0100, Joschi Brauchle wrote:
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
I'd like to add some end user perspective (clearly lacking background on the technical problems of a maintenance upgrade):
Thanks, your perspective is valuable.
openSUSE 13.2 has been announced basically everywhere on the net to be *released* with kernel 3.17, even on official openSUSE blogs/pages. If one searches for "opensuse 13.2 kernel version" and reads the articles, not just headlines, the picture one gets is that the beta/rc1 has 3.16 but final will have 3.17.
Looking at the release schedule of 13.1 and the time when 3.17 was released, "going for 3.17" was unrealistic at the time of RC1 milestone. Switching kernel without enough time to do QA up to the same level as the previous kernel got is hazardous.
So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging.
Do you have an example where the 3.17 kernel enables HW that does not work with 3.16 ?
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
This has been probably mentioned, the obs://Kernel:stable repository follows the kernel.org stable releases so if you really need the newer kernel, adding this repository is straightforward.
Yes, this is true, although in my case this required disabling UEFI Secureboot completely to be able to boot with the Kernel:Stable laptop (see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2014-10/msg00059.html ) and thus pay the price of not being able to boot into Windows8 again [nice covert way of disabling Windows usage ;)], so it is not without its downside. Best wishes. P.S.: This mail, already sent several hours back did not get posted somehow, apologies if because of the resending it eventually gets posted twice. -- Atri Bhattacharya Fri Oct 31 18:48:28 MST 2014 Sent from openSUSE 13.2 on my laptop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
01.11.2014 04:51, Atri Bhattacharya пишет:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
Could you open the ticket in our bugzilla, the commit seems to able to be easily backported to 3.12 kernel. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2014-11-01 at 10:31 +0300, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
01.11.2014 04:51, Atri Bhattacharya пишет:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
Could you open the ticket in our bugzilla, the commit seems to able to be easily backported to 3.12 kernel.
Wow! That would be amazing (assuming you meant 3.16 kernel, the one released with openSUSE 13.2?). Here goes the bug report: http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=903542 . Would be highly appreciated if this fix can be backported, indeed. Best wishes. -- Atri Bhattacharya Sat Nov 1 02:19:01 MST 2014 Sent from openSUSE 13.2 on my laptop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:31:31 +0300, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
01.11.2014 04:51, Atri Bhattacharya пишет:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
Could you open the ticket in our bugzilla, the commit seems to able to be easily backported to 3.12 kernel.
It's no single commit but a large amount of commit series, so not that trivial. Look at the commits around the suggested one above. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, 2014-11-02 at 09:09 +0100, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:31:31 +0300, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
01.11.2014 04:51, Atri Bhattacharya пишет:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
Could you open the ticket in our bugzilla, the commit seems to able to be easily backported to 3.12 kernel.
It's no single commit but a large amount of commit series, so not that trivial. Look at the commits around the suggested one above.
You are right, Takashi, it does look like there are several commits relevant to this one. Anyway, then, let me know if I should close my bug-report here (requesting backporting ALPS v7 touchpad support to 3.16.x) http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=903542 as WONTFIX. Best wishes. -- Atri Bhattacharya Sun Nov 2 02:53:38 MST 2014 Sent from openSUSE 13.2 on my laptop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On November 2, 2014 3:09:51 AM EST, Takashi Iwai
At Sat, 01 Nov 2014 10:31:31 +0300, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
01.11.2014 04:51, Atri Bhattacharya пишет:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex
14)
touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=3... and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
Could you open the ticket in our bugzilla, the commit seems to able to be easily backported to 3.12 kernel.
It's no single commit but a large amount of commit series, so not that trivial. Look at the commits around the suggested one above.
Takashi
I'm not personally impacted by the decision, but it seems with factory/tumbleweed likely to have thousands of users testing the 3.17 kernel, upgrading kernels post release is a more realistic option than bin previous releases. (As of summer 2014, factory was reported to have 6,000 users, announcing the factory/tumbleweed integration I assume will only increase that. We may know real numbers in a couple weeks.) In this case it seems recent Lenovo laptop support is either going to take significant backporting or updating to 3.17. Neither option seems good to me, but one of them is least bad. If that can be figured out then the answer will hopefully become obvious. Greg -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 06:51:35PM -0700, Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-31 at 14:59 +0100, David Sterba wrote:
This has been probably mentioned, the obs://Kernel:stable repository follows the kernel.org stable releases so if you really need the newer kernel, adding this repository is straightforward.
Yes, this is true, although in my case this required disabling UEFI Secureboot completely to be able to boot with the Kernel:Stable laptop (see http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kernel/2014-10/msg00059.html )
AFAIK it should be possible to add an additional key to your UEFI "secure boot" setup.
and thus pay the price of not being able to boot into Windows8 again [nice covert way of disabling Windows usage ;)], so it is not without its downside.
Well, it's rather the other way around. One of the main purposes of "secure boot" design (albeit not the officialy presented one, of course) is to make booting and using _other_ systems (than Windows) as uncomfortable as possible. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 31 of October 2014 18:51:35 Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit /?id=3808843cf10e4a696d942359d99822eff1a2de8e and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Mon, 2014-11-03 at 07:26 +0100, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Friday 31 of October 2014 18:51:35 Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit /?id=3808843cf10e4a696d942359d99822eff1a2de8e and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other.
Just to clarify, in this case, I was only responding to a specific question asked by David regarding what new HW support was added to Kernel 3.17 that was absent from 3.16, and not trying to influence the maintenance model of the openSUSE release kernel; I completely agree the kernel maintainers are definitely the best judge of that. -- Atri Bhattacharya Sun Nov 2 23:46:04 MST 2014 Sent from openSUSE 13.2 on my laptop. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
03.11.2014 09:26, Michal Kubecek пишет:
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other.
As far as I know, fixing hardware support has always been a reason for maintenance update. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 03 of November 2014 11:12:37 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
03.11.2014 09:26, Michal Kubecek пишет:
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other.
As far as I know, fixing hardware support has always been a reason for maintenance update.
Unless I completely misunderstood, this looks rather like adding support for new hardware (that hasn't been supported so far) than fixing support which is already present. Michal Kubeček -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Mon, 03 Nov 2014 07:26:33 +0100, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Friday 31 of October 2014 18:51:35 Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit /?id=3808843cf10e4a696d942359d99822eff1a2de8e and so missed 3.16.x series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other.
Right. Meanwhile, we should reconsider why we need to keep the old base kernel. So far, the arguments for keeping 3.16 are: A. It's less work for Jeff B. kABI can be broken by the new kernel (VMware, etc) C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed. Let's begin with A. Here we should replace "Jeff" with general "kernel maintainers". And rethink: is it really less work? With 3.16, we have to backport each patch for the reported security bugs. In the case of stable kernels, it's usually gratis there. For any device bugs (regression, not working, whatever): we report to the upstream, wait resolution there, eventually the upstream fixes in the latest code, tag to Cc to stable. Then finally we can backport it by ourselves. For stable kernels, it's usually gratis there. The kernel base version change is done by HEAD and stable branches, and tested by FACTORY. It's already a regular work. So what would bring "more work" for kernel maintainers by following stable? Now think about B. Yes, this can be a showstopper. However, we don't have to switch to the very newest kernel but stable kernels. Ideally, FACTORY is supposed to be tested more widely than before, so we may catch up the third-party KMPs in time. This needs more evaluation objectively. Finally, about C: of course, this is the biggest question. How is the ratio of fixed vs new bugs? Does anybody have numbers? One thing I'd like to point out is that our position is mostly "just reporting to the upstream and cooperating". And, for upstream, it's even better to be tested with a newer kernel. With an upstream maintainer hat on, I would ask at first to retest with a newer kernel if I get such a bug report. That said, keeping the dead base line is rather more work load for cooperative debugging with upstream. thanks, Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
03.11.2014 13:29, Takashi Iwai пишет:
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Can we have two parallel kernel versions for some time? Just to allow the user to temporarily revert to the 3.16 if 3.17 just doesn't boot on his hardware. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On 03.11.2014 12:18, Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
03.11.2014 13:29, Takashi Iwai пишет:
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Can we have two parallel kernel versions for some time? Just to allow the user to temporarily revert to the 3.16 if 3.17 just doesn't boot on his hardware.
multiversion for the kernel is default anyway. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
On Monday 03 November 2014 14.18:13 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
03.11.2014 13:29, Takashi Iwai пишет:
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Can we have two parallel kernel versions for some time? Just to allow the user to temporarily revert to the 3.16 if 3.17 just doesn't boot on his hardware.
Mat I send to back to read zypp.conf inside the distribution how to have several flavors of kernel (and kernel-devel) installed. Work great, and should be the default since 12.3 ... (I was not just yet able to have several kernel-macros version installed together) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Board, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
Am 03.11.2014 um 13:23 schrieb Bruno Friedmann:
On Monday 03 November 2014 14.18:13 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
03.11.2014 13:29, Takashi Iwai пишет:
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Can we have two parallel kernel versions for some time? Just to allow the user to temporarily revert to the 3.16 if 3.17 just doesn't boot on his hardware.
Mat I send to back to read zypp.conf inside the distribution how to have several flavors of kernel (and kernel-devel) installed.
Work great, and should be the default since 12.3 ...
Matwey has helped us a great deal in keeping ARM Kernel:HEAD building and working, so I'm sure he knows how to install kernels. ;) I'm rather interpreting his question as: can both series be maintained in parallel for users to choose, which takes us back to A. more maintenance work. Cheers, Andreas -- SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer; HRB 21284 AG Nürnberg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Mon, 03 Nov 2014 18:01:19 +0100, Andreas Färber wrote:
Am 03.11.2014 um 13:23 schrieb Bruno Friedmann:
On Monday 03 November 2014 14.18:13 Matwey V. Kornilov wrote:
03.11.2014 13:29, Takashi Iwai пишет:
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Can we have two parallel kernel versions for some time? Just to allow the user to temporarily revert to the 3.16 if 3.17 just doesn't boot on his hardware.
Mat I send to back to read zypp.conf inside the distribution how to have several flavors of kernel (and kernel-devel) installed.
Work great, and should be the default since 12.3 ...
Matwey has helped us a great deal in keeping ARM Kernel:HEAD building and working, so I'm sure he knows how to install kernels. ;) I'm rather interpreting his question as: can both series be maintained in parallel for users to choose, which takes us back to A. more maintenance work.
Well, in that case, we don't maintain the old kernel, so no longer burden here. If the new kernel is broken, we fix the new kernel. IIRC, the openSUSE update repo contains each released package. So user can take back to the old versions at any time. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/3/14, 5:29 AM, Takashi Iwai wrote:
At Mon, 03 Nov 2014 07:26:33 +0100, Michal Kubecek wrote:
On Friday 31 of October 2014 18:51:35 Atri Bhattacharya wrote:
I can help with that: Kernel 3.17 enables my laptop's (Lenovo Flex 14) touchpad to be recognised while 3.16 doesn't. This is an ALPS v7 device, which got added by way of this commit https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit
/?id=3808843cf10e4a696d942359d99822eff1a2de8e and so missed 3.16.x
series. With 13.2, therefore, my touchpad does not work (it is recognised as PS/2 mouse and that is even worse!), but I upgraded to 3.17.1 from Kernel:Stable and it works now. This is not an exotic device either: most recent Lenovo laptops in the Yoga and Flex series come with this or a synaptic touchpad whose support also only got added to Kernel 3.17.
IMHO we should clearly distinguish between maintenance and bugfixes on one side and features and HW enablement on the other.
Right.
Meanwhile, we should reconsider why we need to keep the old base kernel. So far, the arguments for keeping 3.16 are:
A. It's less work for Jeff
It's not a huge difference for me. That's just the reason I haven't been the one to raise the proposal. - -Jeff
B. kABI can be broken by the new kernel (VMware, etc)
C. More bugs can be introduced than fixed.
Let's begin with A. Here we should replace "Jeff" with general "kernel maintainers". And rethink: is it really less work?
With 3.16, we have to backport each patch for the reported security bugs. In the case of stable kernels, it's usually gratis there.
For any device bugs (regression, not working, whatever): we report to the upstream, wait resolution there, eventually the upstream fixes in the latest code, tag to Cc to stable. Then finally we can backport it by ourselves. For stable kernels, it's usually gratis there.
The kernel base version change is done by HEAD and stable branches, and tested by FACTORY. It's already a regular work.
So what would bring "more work" for kernel maintainers by following stable?
Now think about B. Yes, this can be a showstopper. However, we don't have to switch to the very newest kernel but stable kernels. Ideally, FACTORY is supposed to be tested more widely than before, so we may catch up the third-party KMPs in time. This needs more evaluation objectively.
Finally, about C: of course, this is the biggest question. How is the ratio of fixed vs new bugs? Does anybody have numbers?
One thing I'd like to point out is that our position is mostly "just reporting to the upstream and cooperating". And, for upstream, it's even better to be tested with a newer kernel. With an upstream maintainer hat on, I would ask at first to retest with a newer kernel if I get such a bug report. That said, keeping the dead base line is rather more work load for cooperative debugging with upstream.
thanks,
Takashi
- -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.19 (Darwin) iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJUV5CCAAoJEB57S2MheeWyqmoP/3asF7slhFjDTiE4GcGyVerP 322L4iqhQRTvAXxI/niW8Kc5nrqwnBvazZJuv76Kv0FuxWEIfThjIBdbYsd1q/KM 74C+5/FxLN/RgEbzwPJmu/ZhngVwBzqRAvB+BjBHAas2OJpfqF1SFn9Y5jScqkAc n3a8/Apf2b8afo0ilHB3vYqVnk2AuDzBs+i+azZF65hI/KElDGlOlMrriNHldkiB RmO/1IwXIbNEyGnU+EVWKL0MDiJtOqORF1iIrZanK7d8ra6+7mMjTn+egMdtjU1y EHOBzWRxPzb2BszljeK6/J2QhPO5UwSL36LLQ4nf4nZQzBfVznV1qNZj6tdBblHG ZcGPN8CjNueboFnhVtTDJar2mrF3Ogc3t5oEF528UTZFpe+bObRMlA5dBE8/eyPR /R0gdFLtY6FmQX6P1wdzYk1O5lEDDIWKkXRcnCsnLSbUcWIRqmtHfZSgbTAv3HmH canCLJ4L5SqeUv87tcmeBFMShhcok24TaDe9F9dzieBOvXXKDkg+9cWeVnVLTmTi F3XgkgYDAzAwm5P6ghvY3Gg/jbL2tZmc4qkvpHrAJHkwlFDrSJ6NLHJ3QTU4EXyt yEaV+ClU/CH1lqtn7qLlyEhroiXLTNTWz3tpJ1r9C+etxU4Mj064fXQmH2ul3iUK 1AcuYS7euzFNhwNMc5Fa =LzrB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
At Fri, 31 Oct 2014 14:59:56 +0100, David Sterba wrote:
So for me, seeing a *brand new* openSUSE release with a 3.16 kernel that is not fully supporting some rather popular current hardware and being discontinued soon after release is pretty discouraging.
Do you have an example where the 3.17 kernel enables HW that does not work with 3.16 ?
This has been probably mentioned, the obs://Kernel:stable repository follows the kernel.org stable releases so if you really need the newer kernel, adding this repository is straightforward.
I started the thread because of the bug 902831: http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=902831 DP MST support is a bulky change that is new in 3.17. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
Le Thursday 30 October 2014 à 07:39 +0100, Takashi Iwai a écrit :
At Wed, 29 Oct 2014 13:36:35 +0100, Jiri Slaby wrote:
So 3.16 is literally dead.
Oh really? That's bad for openSUSE 13.2.
The discussion seems stalling again. So, do I understand correctly that we won't do any fixes for openSUSE 13.2 kernel unless explicitly specified in bug reports, right?
As an upstream kernel maintainer, I try to spot relevant fixes in my areas and backport them to openSUSE kernels from time to time. Basically I grep the stable kernel changes (ChangeLog-3.17.* for now) for specific keywords. I hope others are doing the same, but maybe not. Anyway, even if we had picked kernel 3.17 for openSUSE 13.2, let's be honest, that wouldn't have solved the maintenance problem [1]. It would only have made things better for ~3 months, which is not so meaningful for a distribution that is maintained for 18 months. Unless we are lucky and we pick a kernel which ends up being an upstream longterm kernel, "we" either have to volunteer to maintain the kernel as a longterm kernel ourselves, or "we" have to do the cherry-picking work (as I'm doing, or trying to do.) The problem is of course to define "we" in the sentence above. [1] Kernel 3.17 would have been mostly valuable for hardware enablement, methinks. -- Jean Delvare SUSE L3 Support -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Am 28.10.2014 um 15:15 schrieb Jeff Mahoney:
So, should we have that conversation now for 13.3? The general opensuse list should probably be involved for that.
I actually don't think so. Any list but the opensuse-kernel list is pretty much not informed enough to make a decision. If you want to change the rules, make up a decision and present the change. "less work for me" is not a good argument if it means problems won't be addressed at all. I think most bug reporters will prefer "go to upstream, we'll update to stable later" over "well, 13.3 is released somewhen next year". Greetings, Stephan - -- Ma muaß weiterkämpfen, kämpfen bis zum Umfalln, a wenn die ganze Welt an Arsch offen hat, oder grad deswegn. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEYEARECAAYFAlRP3YEACgkQwFSBhlBjoJZ8owCdEeQ/1E3poGTuRnS3Dzx2wnOA qB0AoIvufdDEQqemhJ/ohPwQ5gV1O3N+ =ppNW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kernel+owner@opensuse.org
participants (14)
-
Andreas Färber -
Atri Bhattacharya -
Bruno Friedmann -
David Sterba -
Greg Freemyer -
Jean Delvare -
Jeff Mahoney -
Jiri Slaby -
Joschi Brauchle -
Larry Finger -
Matwey V. Kornilov -
Michal Kubecek -
Stephan Kulow -
Takashi Iwai