On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:14, Roger Luedecke wrote:

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I'm trying to understand why root apps won't take the theme of the user environment. SO, how do root applications get their theme data? Does the root user have its own theme stuff like a normal user?

Huh? Oh, is that old bug back?

Well, back in OSS 10.2 and in 11.2 again, after a clean install, I had to do a full X11 login as root, use qtconfig, the KDE- and Gnome-settings-tools and afterwards it was ok.

Somehow without a working configuration in the users/root .gtkrc, .kderc, and .kde/share/config it just didn't work right.

I'd oracle its a matter of which configs are read or ignored. Private user-config ($HOME/....) was honoured alright, but the so called system-pre-defined-defaults were ignored, if read at all.

Cheers, Yamaban. Well, we have consistently had the problem of root user qt applications (maybe others) such as YaST... or for that matter things like dolphin and KWrite not honoring the user set theme elements. It seems like the devs can't figure it out. And though I doubt I could figure a fix, I would like to understand what

On Sunday, November 20, 2011 03:29:06 AM Yamaban wrote: the issue really is. So, are you saying that the autogenerated configs somehow are off and this causes the system to ignore them? -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Sunday, November 20, 2011 08:47:40 AM Martin Schlander wrote:

Søndag den 20. november 2011 03:29:06 skrev Yamaban:

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:14, Roger Luedecke wrote:

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I'm trying to understand why root apps won't take the theme of the user environment. SO, how do root applications get their theme data? Does the root user have its own theme stuff like a normal user?

Huh? Oh, is that old bug back?

It's not a bug. Normal users are not supposed to decide what root user apps look like and root apps are not supposed to dig around in /home/ trying to guess what users want.

Unless otherwise configured, root apps will use the default themes and widget style for root. O, I suppose that makes sense. It sure comes off as a bug though. Maybe we should look into implementing a way for them to take the desktop users settings? -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Søndag den 20. november 2011 20:13:46 skrev Roger Luedecke:

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On Sunday, November 20, 2011 08:47:40 AM Martin Schlander wrote:

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Søndag den 20. november 2011 03:29:06 skrev Yamaban:

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2011 03:14, Roger Luedecke wrote:

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I'm trying to understand why root apps won't take the theme of the user environment. SO, how do root applications get their theme data? Does the root user have its own theme stuff like a normal user?> > > Huh? Oh, is that old bug back?

It's not a bug. Normal users are not supposed to decide what root user apps look like and root apps are not supposed to dig around in /home/ trying to guess what users want.

Unless otherwise configured, root apps will use the default themes and widget style for root.

O, I suppose that makes sense. It sure comes off as a bug though. Maybe we should look into implementing a way for them to take the desktop users settings?

On 12.1 coolo fixed it, so Oxygen is the default widget style for root Qt/KDE apps. That should be enough imo. Only geeks change the default widget style. Generally there is a great deal of improvement. However, if you look in this screnshot you'll notice that the root Dolphin has a slight variance in the gradient between the app background and the window decoration. By far though,

On Sunday, November 20, 2011 08:48:00 PM Martin Schlander wrote: this hideous theme for YaST bugs me far more than the rest. http://wstaw.org/m/2011/11/20/almostbutnotquiteconsistentoxygen.png ANd just for the heck of it, here is firefox looking purdy. http://wstaw.org/m/2011/11/20/firefoxperfectlyintegrated_.png -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : Użytkownik Roger Luedecke napisał:

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gradient between the app background and the window decoration. By far though, this hideous theme for YaST bugs me far more than the rest. http://wstaw.org/m/2011/11/20/almostbutnotquiteconsistentoxygen.png

Why do you call it hideous?  I am not convinced.

Can you see the difference between screenshots? It's a lack of refinement which greatly hurts our project. I thank coolo for restoring the Oxygen theme for root applications but there is clearly something causing these new problems. Also I think that when an applications is run as root, it should respect the theme and settings of the current user. Look at how OS X and Windows works. Everything looks built-in, but when Linux users escalate privileges, we get applications that look like what Roger showed us. Why do you think Apple has done so well? Because of refinement. Making application's respect the user's theme gives us a better distro.

Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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On Sunday, November 20, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : ----------snip------------

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Also I think that when an applications is run as root, it should respect the theme and settings of the current user.

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I have to disagree, when a user runs an application as root, they should know it instantly. They are no longer user, they are root.

I have alot of windows open all of the time. I purposely configure my root styles to look different (red colors, different widget style, etc) specifically so that I can instantly see that the application I am using has superpowers.

see ya dh I actually don't disagree with the idea of having applications run as root being somewhat distinctive. I think though a certain elegance in that matter would be nice. Once again, this is not a critical issue but one of aesthetics. I think it would be more appropriate if say the applications respected all the user settings but overrode (I think thats a word) the highlight colors and

On Sunday, November 20, 2011 02:24:12 PM dh wrote: that sort of thing. Subtle, but obvious. So instead of blue or green (as in my system) highlighting, it uses a light red color; but respects other system colors, widget, icons, and font settings. How something of that sort would be implemented is beyond me, hence the original question of this post. I would be happy to work out the patch or whatever... but I need to have a cursory understanding before I can begin working on it. On another note, I think I have seen some other distro that does just that... but its been a long time so I don't recall exactly. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 11/21/2011 12:33 AM, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 dh : On Sunday, November 20, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : ----------snip------------ Also I think that when an applications is run as root, it should respect the theme and settings of the current user. -----------snip-----------

I have to disagree, when a user runs an application as root, they should know it instantly. They are no longer user, they are root. While I agree with that as well, I think the only distinction between a root app and a non-root app is a poorly implemented Oxygen theme.

Why not have all root applications use an altered Oxygen theme? Oxygen + different colour scheme?

On the other hand, does the average user (or any user) need to be told twice that an app is running as root?

When you keep hem open, both as root and as mortal user, yes you need to be reminded. I very often have different konqueror / Dolphin sessions open like this and I need to see the difference. At least I do not want to losse the possibility. Linux is also different here, Root is a user and not a administrative mode. Peter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 21 November 2011 16:26, Roger Luedecke wrote: On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:17:57 PM Peter Vollebregt wrote:

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On 11/21/2011 12:33 AM, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 dh :

On Sunday, November 20, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : ----------snip------------

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Also I think that when an applications is run as root, it should respect the theme and settings of the current user.

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I have to disagree, when a user runs an application as root, they should know it instantly. They are no longer user, they are root.

While I agree with that as well, I think the only distinction between a root app and a non-root app is a poorly implemented Oxygen theme.

Why not have all root applications use an altered Oxygen theme? Oxygen + different colour scheme?

On the other hand, does the average user (or any user) need to be told twice that an app is running as root?

When you keep hem open, both as root and as mortal user, yes you need to be reminded. I very often have different konqueror / Dolphin sessions open like this and I need to see the difference. At least I do not want to losse the possibility.

Linux is also different here, Root is a user and not a administrative mode.

Peter It occurs to me then... if we need to make it obvious, we could make it look intentional. As it has been, it has looked entirely like a bug (and from what I remember that is indeed how it started) so we should make it look deliberate. Maybe use the "MS Windows 9x" style with a grey and red theme. It'll be ugly, but it will look intentional. Should probably give it a fugly, utilitarian icon theme too.

For no reason should a default theme look ugly (or fugly :) Why not a similar theme to Oxygen but with a different colour scheme?

-- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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Użytkownik Steven Sroka napisał:

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On 21 November 2011 16:26, Roger Luedecke wrote: On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:17:57 PM Peter Vollebregt wrote:

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On 11/21/2011 12:33 AM, Steven Sroka wrote:

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Why not have all root applications use an altered Oxygen theme? Oxygen + different colour scheme?

On the other hand, does the average user (or any user) need to be told twice that an app is running as root? When you keep hem open, both as root and as mortal user, yes you need to be reminded. I very often have different konqueror / Dolphin sessions open like this and I need to see the difference. At least I do not want to losse the possibility.

Linux is also different here, Root is a user and not a administrative mode.

Peter It occurs to me then... if we need to make it obvious, we could make it look intentional. As it has been, it has looked entirely like a bug (and from what I remember that is indeed how it started) so we should make it look deliberate. Maybe use the "MS Windows 9x" style with a grey and red theme. It'll be ugly, but it will look intentional. Should probably give it a fugly, utilitarian icon theme too. For no reason should a default theme look ugly (or fugly :) Why not a similar theme to Oxygen but with a different colour scheme? I would prefer the style to be more vanilla too (less colours, simpler icons, that kind of thing). The message would be: "Do not stay here any longer than absolutely necessary! I am NOT NICE!"

IMHO, Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday, November 21, 2011 09:48:38 PM Steven Sroka wrote:

For the "root gets another distinguishable theme" option, what about something like this:

http://susepaste.org/37078974 http://susepaste.org/20923151 http://susepaste.org/77996842

I can talk to the developers about how long they plan to maintain these themes. These are just different Window Decorations, which I don't believe we can do much about. And they don't totally address the fugliness with misaligned window gradients. Let me show what I mean briefly... http://susepaste.org/31388798 . Here you get the idea. If it has to look out of place, then lets make certain it looks deliberate. Here its green highlight because I didn't feel like monkeying about with my colors. The icons are faenza, but you'll see a number of them look more utilitarian than the artsy Oxygen. Also note, that though this theme isn't fancy it is not hideous and doesn't overly clash with the gradient of the Window Decoration. It looks deliberate, and utilitarian... which is ultimately what root is about. I would also recommend either the cursor settings be persistent as well or that we have a reddish cursor theme here as well. Now, if we can actually dictate the windows use a different Window Decoration then I say we should look into that. But the issues of making it look intentional and not a bug are addressed elegantly in my solution. -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Op 21-11-11 22:26, Roger Luedecke schreef:

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On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:17:57 PM Peter Vollebregt wrote:

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On 11/21/2011 12:33 AM, Steven Sroka wrote:

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2011/11/20 dh :

On Sunday, November 20, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote:

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> 2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : ----------snip------------

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Also I think that when an applications is run as root, it should respect the theme and settings of the current user.

-----------snip-----------

I have to disagree, when a user runs an application as root, they should know it instantly. They are no longer user, they are root.

While I agree with that as well, I think the only distinction between a root app and a non-root app is a poorly implemented Oxygen theme.

Why not have all root applications use an altered Oxygen theme? Oxygen + different colour scheme?

On the other hand, does the average user (or any user) need to be told twice that an app is running as root?

When you keep them open, both as root and as mortal user, yes you need to be reminded. I very often have different konqueror / Dolphin sessions open like this and I need to see the difference. At least I do not want to lose the possibility.

Linux is also different here, Root is a user and not an administrative mode.

Peter

It occurs to me then... if we need to make it obvious, we could make it look intentional.

Thanks for understanding.

For me a reddish colour theme would be sufficient though. This is what I have to do now every time at a new install. Although I often add a courier font to make all apps really fugly ;-) But not everyone needs such an ugly reminder.

Peter Right. But if we can't make apps launched as root honor any of the desktop users settings then it makes sense to make sure it is looking out of place on

On Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:45:44 AM Peter Vollebregt wrote: purpose. But we have been kicking this idea around. As for me, I don't know the technical details on how to implement this. I could most likely change the stuff on my system, but that leaves two questions. *Can applications launched as root honor the desktop users settings, as opposed to being manually set? *Since we are in agreement as to the idea, how do we begin working on a patch? -- Roger Luedecke openSUSE Ambassador Ind. Repairs and Consulting **Looking for a C++ etc. mentor*** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 22 November 2011 15:12, dh wrote: On Tuesday, November 22, 2011, Roger Luedecke wrote:

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On Tuesday, November 22, 2011 10:45:44 AM Peter Vollebregt wrote:

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Op 21-11-11 22:26, Roger Luedecke schreef:

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On Monday, November 21, 2011 01:17:57 PM Peter Vollebregt wrote:

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On 11/21/2011 12:33 AM, Steven Sroka wrote:

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> 2011/11/20 dh : > > On Sunday, November 20, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote: >>> 2011/11/20 Krzysztof Żelechowski : > ----------snip------------

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Linux is also different here, Root is a user and not an administrative mode.

Peter

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Right. But if we can't make apps launched as root honor any of the desktop users settings then it makes sense to make sure it is looking out of place on purpose.

I'm not sure what you mean here. It seems that you are saying that when running an application as su (kdesu someapp) that the users preferences should take precedence. If this is what you are saying then I disagree.

When  user1 runs an application as  user2, they "become" user2 and user2's preferences should be in effect for that instance as much as possible. Except for window borders that seems to be what we currently have. Or am I missing something?

But does user1 care that they are running an application as user2? Usually they just want to use the application. I like the idea of changing the window decorations, but the problem is that we only currently change the look of the window because of a bug. Why not give root a different, nice looking default theme, and have every application respect the theme of the user that the application is being run as. For example: $ kdesu dolphin -> runs with root's unique colour scheme/window decorations/etc. $ dolphin -> runs with the current user's colour scheme/window decorations/etc. $ && dolphin -> runs with the Bob's colour scheme/window decorations/etc. even though the current logged in user is not Bob

see ya dh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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On Tuesday, November 22, 2011, Steven Sroka wrote:

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On 22 November 2011 15:12, dh wrote: On Tuesday, November 22, 2011, Roger Luedecke wrote: -----------snip------------ When user1 runs an application as user2, they "become" user2 and user2's preferences should be in effect for that instance as much as possible. Except for window borders that seems to be what we currently have. Or am I missing something?

But does user1 care that they are running an application as user2? Usually they just want to use the application.

They care if they are running an application as someonre that could break or compromise their system/

I like the idea of changing the window decorations, but the problem is that we only currently change the look of the window because of a bug.

Why not give root a different, nice looking default theme, and have every application respect the theme of the user that the application is being run as.

Agree

For example:

$ kdesu dolphin -> runs with root's unique colour scheme/window decorations/etc.

$ dolphin -> runs with the current user's colour scheme/window decorations/etc.

$ && dolphin -> runs with the Bob's colour scheme/window decorations/etc. even though the current logged in user is not Bob

I thought that was what I was saying. see ya dh -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org