On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Fredag den 21. januar 2011 21:52:26 skrev todd rme:

...

A new phonon version is now out:

http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

This part was particularly significant in my opinion:

"Last but not least we changed the default priorities of backends on Linux. To get the best experience you should now either use GStreamer or VLC. The former preferred choice Xine is as of now considered unmaintained and should not be used anymore."

The openSUSE version, however, defaults to xine, and the VLC version is not available from the openSUSE or KDE:Distro:Factory repositories at all.

I know that there was some talk about moving the phonon-VLC backend and the stripped-down VLC components from playground to KDE:Distro:Factory for 11.4, but I think this makes it more pressing. The way they mention indicates they think it is ready for use.

Either way, should we change the default backend to gstreamer (or VLC if it is moved)?

It might be a good idea to have Phonon prefer VLC backend _if_ installed.

This would require it be available for installation, which it currently is not from the mainline repositories. I think it should definitely be moved to KDE:Distro:Factory, the developers say they think it is ready for mainstream use now.

But as for defaulting to gstreamer I have some doubts. Xine worksforme and we need libxine1 for Kaffeine anyway.

Also what good is it if the gstreamer phonon-backend is theoretically "better", if gstreamer itself is b0rked. I'm not a gstreamer expert, but I often heard about issues with Packman gstreamer packages. Isn't gstreamer an unmaintainable, steaming pile of sh*t from a packaging point of view?

Gstreamer is a freedesktop.org standard, used by a number of multimedia players and required by the telepathy project for voice and video chat, also a freedesktop.org standard (which is what KDE is moving towards for their chat systems). It also looks like Qt may be moving away from phonon and towards Gstreamer as well.

And either way, making gstreamer the default phonon backend will complicate codec installation substantially. Now you just need libxine1-codecs from packman and Amarok and Kaffeine will "just work" - if phonon uses gstreamer people need libxine1-codecs for Kaffeine and 5.000 gstreamer packages and strange libs constantly breaking compatibility with each other.

The Gstreamer phonon backend will detect when there are missing codecs and ask to install them, I think using kpackagekit. It is sort of like the openSUSE system that does the same thing, only integrated directly into phonon so every media player gets it for free.

Also I'd like to know what the problems with xine are supposed to be, before I just take someone's word for it, that I shouldn't use it.

That is your decision, and certainly we should continue packaging it, but as a distribution if the developers as a project say we shouldn't use something it is probably better to at least not make it the default anymore. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 11:08 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Lørdag den 22. januar 2011 16:43:59 skrev todd rme:

...

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Martin Schlander

...

It might be a good idea to have Phonon prefer VLC backend _if_ installed.

This would require it be available for installation, which it currently is not from the mainline repositories.  I think it should definitely be moved to KDE:Distro:Factory, the developers say they think it is ready for mainstream use now.

Do you consider Packman "a mainline repo"?

No, not really. Especially not for people trying to avoid legal issues.

Of course it would have been nice to include phonon-backend-vlc in the distro along with the parts of vlc which can be "legally" included. But that's too late now for 11.4 - it was always on the kde_ideas wiki page for 11.4 but apparently either noone cared enough, or had the time or the (technical/legal) skill to handle it.

Can we at least move it to the kde:extra repository then? And if VLC cannot be available, shouldn't we switch the default to the Gstreamer as the developers recommend?

...

...

But as for defaulting to gstreamer I have some doubts. Xine worksforme and we need libxine1 for Kaffeine anyway.

Also what good is it if the gstreamer phonon-backend is theoretically "better", if gstreamer itself is b0rked. I'm not a gstreamer expert, but I often heard about issues with Packman gstreamer packages. Isn't gstreamer an unmaintainable, steaming pile of sh*t from a packaging point of view?

Gstreamer is a freedesktop.org standard, used by a number of multimedia players

Being "a freedesktop.org standard" never stopped anything from being a major PITA before - you might even say: au contraire.

I am not saying it does. The point was that xine is not unique in having KDE applications depend on it, Gstreamer has that trait as well, and lots more packages depend on Gstreamer outside of the KDE project. So pulling in Gstreamer by default is not going to be a big burden for the system since it is needed elsewhere. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag 22 Januar 2011, 16:43:59 schrieb todd rme:

Gstreamer is a freedesktop.org standard Just because something is hosted on freedesktop.org, it doesn't suddenly become a standard. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 10:46 AM, yamaban wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Fredag den 21. januar 2011 21:52:26 skrev todd rme:

...

A new phonon version is now out:

http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

This part was particularly significant in my opinion:

"Last but not least we changed the default priorities of backends on Linux. To get the best experience you should now either use GStreamer or VLC. The former preferred choice Xine is as of now considered unmaintained and should not be used anymore."

The openSUSE version, however, defaults to xine, and the VLC version is not available from the openSUSE or KDE:Distro:Factory repositories at all.

I know that there was some talk about moving the phonon-VLC backend and the stripped-down VLC components from playground to KDE:Distro:Factory for 11.4, but I think this makes it more pressing. The way they mention indicates they think it is ready for use.

Either way, should we change the default backend to gstreamer (or VLC if it is moved)?

It might be a good idea to have Phonon prefer VLC backend _if_ installed.

But as for defaulting to gstreamer I have some doubts. Xine worksforme and we need libxine1 for Kaffeine anyway.

Also what good is it if the gstreamer phonon-backend is theoretically "better", if gstreamer itself is b0rked. I'm not a gstreamer expert, but I often heard about issues with Packman gstreamer packages. Isn't gstreamer an unmaintainable, steaming pile of sh*t from a packaging point of view?

And either way, making gstreamer the default phonon backend will complicate codec installation substantially. Now you just need libxine1-codecs from packman and Amarok and Kaffeine will "just work" - if phonon uses gstreamer people need libxine1-codecs for Kaffeine and 5.000 gstreamer packages and strange libs constantly breaking compatibility with each other.

Also I'd like to know what the problems with xine are supposed to be, before I just take someone's word for it, that I shouldn't use it.

Well aside from the pure reason of code-security (unmaintained) of xine itself there's also the risk of the not really mainained codecs. As such it's a big NO-NO for any coming distro. One doesn't include unmaintained packages if one can help it.

This cleared, I'd like to ask about the state of any of the various phonon-backends.

GStreamer:  We've heard by now, that amarok with phonon-backend-gstreamer        doens't support fade, and the EQ isn't working.

VLC:    Amarok doesn't play at all.

Xine:   Works now, but becomes more and more risky

Others?? Is there a mplayer backend - just asking?

What's the state of confusion/work/art in other Jukebox/Player-Apps? What can be done to get at least one other backend (other than xine) to work with Amarok too?

Please dear gurus give us users some enlightment :->

Cheers, Yamaban out

I asked about the mplayer back-end. The guy who made the announcement says he doesn't have any idea what the story is with that project, and it wasn't included in the release announcement. There is still development going on, judging from the git logs. I have no problem using phonon-VLC v 3.1 (the previous release) with Amarok. But all of the issues you mentioned may be fixed with the new releases. Those have not been packaged in KDE:Distro:Factory yet. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/22/2011 05:46 PM, yamaban wrote:

On Sat, 22 Jan 2011, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Fredag den 21. januar 2011 21:52:26 skrev todd rme:

...

A new phonon version is now out:

http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

This part was particularly significant in my opinion:

"Last but not least we changed the default priorities of backends on Linux. To get the best experience you should now either use GStreamer or VLC. The former preferred choice Xine is as of now considered unmaintained and should not be used anymore."

The openSUSE version, however, defaults to xine, and the VLC version is not available from the openSUSE or KDE:Distro:Factory repositories at all.

I know that there was some talk about moving the phonon-VLC backend and the stripped-down VLC components from playground to KDE:Distro:Factory for 11.4, but I think this makes it more pressing. The way they mention indicates they think it is ready for use.

Either way, should we change the default backend to gstreamer (or VLC if it is moved)?

It might be a good idea to have Phonon prefer VLC backend _if_ installed.

But as for defaulting to gstreamer I have some doubts. Xine worksforme and we need libxine1 for Kaffeine anyway.

Also what good is it if the gstreamer phonon-backend is theoretically "better", if gstreamer itself is b0rked. I'm not a gstreamer expert, but I often heard about issues with Packman gstreamer packages. Isn't gstreamer an unmaintainable, steaming pile of sh*t from a packaging point of view?

And either way, making gstreamer the default phonon backend will complicate codec installation substantially. Now you just need libxine1-codecs from packman and Amarok and Kaffeine will "just work" - if phonon uses gstreamer people need libxine1-codecs for Kaffeine and 5.000 gstreamer packages and strange libs constantly breaking compatibility with each other.

Also I'd like to know what the problems with xine are supposed to be, before I just take someone's word for it, that I shouldn't use it.

Well aside from the pure reason of code-security (unmaintained) of xine itself there's also the risk of the not really mainained codecs. As such it's a big NO-NO for any coming distro. One doesn't include unmaintained packages if one can help it.

This cleared, I'd like to ask about the state of any of the various phonon-backends.

GStreamer: We've heard by now, that amarok with phonon-backend-gstreamer doens't support fade, and the EQ isn't working.

VLC: Amarok doesn't play at all.

Xine: Works now, but becomes more and more risky Xine is far from unmaintained, it;s hosted by debian. That and the maturity it holds, it was there in SuSE 7.3. Dave P

Others?? Is there a mplayer backend - just asking?

What's the state of confusion/work/art in other Jukebox/Player-Apps? What can be done to get at least one other backend (other than xine) to work with Amarok too?

Please dear gurus give us users some enlightment :->

Cheers, Yamaban out

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/22/2011 10:45 AM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Fredag den 21. januar 2011 21:52:26 skrev todd rme:

...

A new phonon version is now out:

http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

This part was particularly significant in my opinion:

"Last but not least we changed the default priorities of backends on Linux. To get the best experience you should now either use GStreamer or VLC. The former preferred choice Xine is as of now considered unmaintained and should not be used anymore."

The openSUSE version, however, defaults to xine, and the VLC version is not available from the openSUSE or KDE:Distro:Factory repositories at all.

I know that there was some talk about moving the phonon-VLC backend and the stripped-down VLC components from playground to KDE:Distro:Factory for 11.4, but I think this makes it more pressing. The way they mention indicates they think it is ready for use.

Either way, should we change the default backend to gstreamer (or VLC if it is moved)?

It might be a good idea to have Phonon prefer VLC backend _if_ installed.

But as for defaulting to gstreamer I have some doubts. Xine worksforme and we need libxine1 for Kaffeine anyway.

Also what good is it if the gstreamer phonon-backend is theoretically "better", if gstreamer itself is b0rked. I'm not a gstreamer expert, but I often heard about issues with Packman gstreamer packages. Isn't gstreamer an unmaintainable, steaming pile of sh*t from a packaging point of view?

And either way, making gstreamer the default phonon backend will complicate codec installation substantially. Now you just need libxine1-codecs from packman and Amarok and Kaffeine will "just work" - if phonon uses gstreamer people need libxine1-codecs for Kaffeine and 5.000 gstreamer packages and strange libs constantly breaking compatibility with each other.

Also I'd like to know what the problems with xine are supposed to be, before I just take someone's word for it, that I shouldn't use it.

Xine has moved from cvs to hg, which is new to me I was surprised to find I already had hg installed. but seems to be another git clone and appears to be active so I don;t know where the perception of unmaintained comes from. Xine-ui seems to be depreciated in favour of gxine a gtk frontend, and it's been modularised very efficiently with a browser plugin for firefox and a separate module for dvds. I haven't touched gstreamer, it's never worked as a backend for me and very often a couple of packages in the suite fail to build I concentrate on packages that seem popular or exceptional in functionality and should be popular. Vlc on the other hand just works and the maintainer of vlc actively participates in openSUSE. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 22. Januar 2011, 12:41:53 schrieb Cor Blom:

I understand vlc and gstreamer are the future and xine-backend is no longer maintained. But the choice for the default should in my opinion be based on the functionality for the user. For me a reason to stay with xine is that the equalizer in amarok is not working with vlc and gstreamer, but it is working with xine. That is the only difference I can see between the backends, so I say we stay with the xine-backend for now.

Currently only 4.4.3 is available and with these I have at least two more issues: - Playing an mp3 file with the vlc backend still uses double the cpu it does when using the xine backend. - fading out does not work for me in amarok if I click on "stop". So one would need to have 4.4.4 packages available to test what pros and cons e.g. vlc offers over xine. On the other hand, if xine is really unmaintained and not just the backend it won't get any security updates and thus represents a security issue. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/26/2011 07:19 AM, todd rme wrote:

I don't think xine itself is unmaintained, rather the xine phonon backend is unmaintained.

-Todd

I'm planning on having a look at. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/27/2011 03:55 PM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Onsdag den 26. januar 2011 12:40:04 skrev Dave Plater:

...

On 01/26/2011 07:19 AM, todd rme wrote:

...

I don't think xine itself is unmaintained, rather the xine phonon backend is unmaintained.

I'm planning on having a look at. Dave P

That would be awesome. At least xine seems to currently be the most feature complete one - e.g. both vlc and gstreamer backends don't seem to offer equalizer.

And since vlc is tricky to include in the distro, and I don't trust gstreamer to not be a nightmare on all kinds of levels, it would be just great if someone would step up and maintain the phonon xine backend imho.

I didn't realise the task I took on when I innocently set about updating xine-ui. So far the clean up of xine-lib has taken me to adding libdvdnav-devel and getting dvdnav and dvdread to build pkg-config .pc files, I don't know where libxine got it's dvd capabilities from if it had any because the xines need either .pcs or explicit environment variables input to find libraries. Still got to get the codecs and other legal pitfalls fixed and maybe next week sometime there will be a shiny working xine-lib which might fix the phonon-backend-xine problem, phonon seems ok. gstreamer needs attention as a whole in order to get it to build properly, I've noticed how it breaks frequently if somebody makes a slight change so I leave it alone. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/27/2011 06:44 PM, todd rme wrote:

I don't think the problem is with the xine packaging, or with xine itself, the problem is that developers don't have enough time to maintain 3 different backends, so they are focusing their attention on the two they think are most promising (gstreamer and vlc). So no matter how many fixes you put into xine, it won't help the xine phonon backend. What is needed for that is a dedicated developer willing maintain the xine phonon backend itself.

-Todd

I was replying to Martin's encouragement not trying to make a case for xine, btw the reason I switched from kaffeine to xine was kdf's kaffeine has irritating window behaviour and at least I have full access to fix things in multimedia. Although I'm a very active maintainer of multimedia apps and libs, gstreamer is a troubling group of packages and a possible problem for it's phonon back end in repositories like kdf is, although they build for factory atm the -base package fails for 11.3 which will cause a possible bad mix of different builds. Someone has to roll up their sleeves and wade into the gstreamer suite and clean it up. I'd be happy to give maintainer rights to someone I perceive isn't going to give me a headache by pressing a wrong button, an osc whatdependson gives a list of packages that is most probably 75% plus of a desktop system although sometimes it's caused by requiring something that's interchangeable like a back end. xine phonon backend builds from phonon, makes me wonder why they blame xine for the problem. Could you paste a link to the source of your info. Oh well back to work Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/27/2011 10:05 PM, Martin Schlander wrote:

Torsdag den 27. januar 2011 20:25:45 skrev Dave Plater:

...

xine phonon backend builds from phonon, makes me wonder why they blame xine for the problem. Could you paste a link to the source of your info. Oh well back to work

Noone is blaming xine for anything.

The upstream Phonon developers just stated they will stop maintaining phonon- backend-xine. They didn't give any reason. http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

But personally I suspect the reasons are mainly non-technical. E.g.:

VLC is very cross-platform. Important e.g. for Amarok and other multimedia apps with ambitions to make it big on OSX and MS Windows.

GStreamer is pushed by some major distros and Nokia to some extent (wonder why...).

So xine just pulls the short end of the stick, since there is limited manpower and traction... That is until someone does the world a favour and steps up and does the job of maintaining phonon-backend-xine :-)

xine's actually got a windows port in the pipeline and qt has a backend that was mentioned in the blog comments. You're right about the vlc part, also mentioned was the vlc developer is present on their irc channel. As far as the phonon-backend-xine is concerned, if it still builds from the main package and xine carries on being the most stable multimedia backend I can't see a maintenance problem, haven't explored xine/phonon relationship yet though. BTW mplayer are working on a phonon back end it seems. libdvdnav and libdvdread come from the mplayer git repos. This competitive spirit can only benefit the user anyway, unless of course it gets nasty and phonon blocks out xine. Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/28/2011 07:48 PM, Cristian Morales Vega wrote:

2011/1/27 Dave Plater :

...

things in multimedia. Although I'm a very active maintainer of multimedia apps and libs, gstreamer is a troubling group of packages and a possible problem for it's phonon back end in repositories like kdf is, although they build for factory atm the -base package fails for 11.3 which will cause a possible bad mix of different builds. Someone has to roll up their sleeves and wade into the gstreamer suite and clean it up. I'd be happy to give maintainer rights to someone I perceive isn't going to give me a headache by pressing a wrong button, an osc whatdependson gives a list of packages that is most probably 75% plus of a desktop system although sometimes it's caused by requiring something that's interchangeable like a back end.

-base package fails for 11.3 because of a too old gobject-introspection. If you want it to build in multimedia:libs aggregate/link it from GNOME:Factory. It's your decision as repository maintainer to decide if you want to "pollute" the repository with foreign packages to make backports possible.

Good idea. Temporary measure but needed. Thanks Dave P. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 2:49 PM, Dave Plater wrote:

On 01/27/2011 06:44 PM, todd rme wrote:

...

What is needed for that is a dedicated developer willing maintain the xine phonon backend itself.

I just read the blog from your link and then looked through some of the comments and replies and imho I detect malice towards xine and a recklessness for vlc and pulse audio. Regards Dave P

Do you have specific comments in particular? I see nothing that indicates "malice towards xine" or "recklessness for vlc and pulse audio". They do mention that pulseaudio provides some capabilities that are not possible otherwise, but I would not call this "recklessness".

xine phonon backend builds from phonon, makes me wonder why they blame xine for the problem.

What makes you think "they blame xine for the problem"? I have seen nothing to indicate this. As I keep saying, they simply don't have enough time to maintain three backends. I don't see them blaming xine for anything. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 01/27/2011 10:05 PM, todd rme wrote:

What makes you think "they blame xine for the problem"? I have seen nothing to indicate this. As I keep saying, they simply don't have enough time to maintain three backends. I don't see them blaming xine for anything.

-Todd

I've had a conversation via comments with the blogger who caused this thread and not actually knowing who he is and am unable to find any connection to him at official phonon sites. At the blog site there is a list of git locations for phonon and the two backends they advocate but if I replace xine and git clone git://anongit.kde.org/phonon-xine it works. I osc copypac'ed the home:blackcat to home:plater:kde4 thinking I would try to submit it for you and noticed the changes didn't have any upstream changes. With the intention of editing the upstream changes in, I searched for official changes, the automatic codec installer looks good but I was unable to find reference to version 4.4.4 at kde.org or phonon.kde.org or a source rpm at fedora only rawhide binary rpms. The only location I can find for phonon 4.4.4 is on the wordpress blog spot. The git phonon-xine confirms the move away from xine with the log message "Lower initial preference to 5 as we are moving away from xine as waepon of choice. It is now 3rd, behind VLC (10) and GStreamer (15)". I don't hold much hope for phonon-backend-vlc making it into 11.4 due to legal issues so hopefully either phonon-xine still just works or phonon-gstreamer works. The multimedia user experience of a distribution is very important to it's popularity and a glitch in phonon whether it happens to other distros or not, can turn people away. Murphy's law is still in the build service web ui so I've submitted your phonon-4.4.4, phonon-backend-gstreamer and phonon-backend-xine, via command line, on your behalf with reference to this thread. sr#59350, sr#59348 and sr#59347 Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 26 January 2011 17:52:32 todd rme wrote:

On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:52 PM, todd rme wrote:

...

A new phonon version is now out:

http://apachelog.wordpress.com/2011/01/21/phonon-family-4-4-4/

This part was particularly significant in my opinion:

"Last but not least we changed the default priorities of backends on Linux. To get the best experience you should now either use GStreamer or VLC. The former preferred choice Xine is as of now considered unmaintained and should not be used anymore."

The openSUSE version, however, defaults to xine, and the VLC version is not available from the openSUSE or KDE:Distro:Factory repositories at all.

I know that there was some talk about moving the phonon-VLC backend and the stripped-down VLC components from playground to KDE:Distro:Factory for 11.4, but I think this makes it more pressing. The way they mention indicates they think it is ready for use.

Either way, should we change the default backend to gstreamer (or VLC if it is moved)?

-Todd

I have phonon, phonon-xine, and phonon-gstreamer 4.4.4 working in my own OBS project (TheBlackCat:kde). I split them into three separate packages, since upstream they are now developed, released, and packaged independently. This will make future updates easier. However, I can't submit these changes back because the web interface is currently broken. I will submit them as soon as I can. I also may have phonon-vlc working as well, but I can't build it because the stripped-down VLC will not build.

Thanks Todd, I'll look at your builds. WIll -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Wednesday 26 January 2011 20:55:50 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

...

I have phonon, phonon-xine, and phonon-gstreamer 4.4.4 working in my own OBS project (TheBlackCat:kde).  I split them into three separate packages, since upstream they are now developed, released, and packaged independently.  This will make future updates easier. However, I can't submit these changes back because the web interface is currently broken.  I will submit them as soon as I can.  I also may have phonon-vlc working as well, but I can't build it because the stripped-down VLC will not build.

Thanks Todd, I'll look at your builds.

phonon-backend-gstreamer needs Provides:       phonon-backend = %version

And it should be named phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10, following gstreamer conventions.

Seems to work though - it doesn't crash on amarok last.fm playback as 4.4.3 does.

Will

Done and done. Still can't submit, though. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 27 January 2011 16:07:44 todd rme wrote:

...

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

...

On Wednesday 26 January 2011 20:55:50 Will Stephenson wrote:

...

...

I have phonon, phonon-xine, and phonon-gstreamer 4.4.4 working in my own OBS project (TheBlackCat:kde).  I split them into three separate packages, since upstream they are now developed, released, and packaged independently.  This will make future updates easier. However, I can't submit these changes back because the web interface is currently broken.  I will submit them as soon as I can.  I also may have phonon-vlc working as well, but I can't build it because the stripped-down VLC will not build.

Thanks Todd, I'll look at your builds.

phonon-backend-gstreamer needs Provides:       phonon-backend = %version

And it should be named phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10, following gstreamer conventions.

Seems to work though - it doesn't crash on amarok last.fm playback as 4.4.3 does.

Will

Done and done.  Still can't submit, though.

I haven't noticed any web ui brokenness today - got details?  (NB probably more useful to contact opensuse-buildservice @ or # directly, since that's where I'll forward them to).

"osc help sr" might be a useful fallback.

Will

I can't submit changes to links back to the source package. I submitted a bug report about it a few days ago and it was confirmed, but no fix yet. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 27 January 2011 17:00:33 todd rme wrote:

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On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:23 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

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On Thursday 27 January 2011 16:07:44 todd rme wrote:

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On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Will Stephenson

wrote:

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On Wednesday 26 January 2011 20:55:50 Will Stephenson wrote:

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> I have phonon, phonon-xine, and phonon-gstreamer 4.4.4 working in > my own OBS project (TheBlackCat:kde).  I split them into three > separate packages, since upstream they are now developed, > released, and packaged independently.  This will make future > updates easier. However, I can't submit these changes back because > the web interface is currently broken.  I will submit them as soon > as I can.  I also may have phonon-vlc working as well, but I can't > build it because the stripped-down VLC will not build.

Thanks Todd, I'll look at your builds.

phonon-backend-gstreamer needs Provides:       phonon-backend = %version

And it should be named phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10, following gstreamer conventions.

Seems to work though - it doesn't crash on amarok last.fm playback as 4.4.3 does.

Will

Done and done.  Still can't submit, though.

I haven't noticed any web ui brokenness today - got details?  (NB probably more useful to contact opensuse-buildservice @ or # directly, since that's where I'll forward them to).

"osc help sr" might be a useful fallback.

Will

I can't submit changes to links back to the source package.  I submitted a bug report about it a few days ago and it was confirmed, but no fix yet.

In that case I would create new branches of the source packages with osc branch, then copy the files from your existing packages into the branches, then sr those.

HTH

Will

I can't submit, either. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 27 January 2011 18:08:39 todd rme wrote:

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I can't submit, either.

I've copied your fixed packages into KDF phonon, phonon-backend-xine (unlinked) and phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10 (new source), doing the rename. Dave was so kind as to submit them.

Thanks guys for taking care of this, it's one less thing to do on a Friday evening!

Will

Great! Thanks a lot. Submissions and VLC building are both fixed, so I have submitted the updated VLC backend back to playground (renaming the obs name from phonon-vlc to phonon-backend-vlc to make it consistent with the package name). Once this is accepted and building properly, should I submit vlc and phonon-backend-vlc to KDE:Extra? The developers say it is ready for prime time, so it should probably be moved out of playground at this point since it is no longer considered unstable. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Sonntag, 30. Januar 2011, 12:51:05 schrieb Will Stephenson:

So we know what kinds of complaints to expect, I'd like to see some documentation on the wiki of what it can and can't do * Codecs that work OOTB * Testing of the above with audio, video content in amarok, dragonplayer, bangarang * Playing standalone, playing at the same time as other Phonon apps, playing at the same time as known exclusive apps like Xine * Can our VLC build be used with externally provided codecs?

I created http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:KDE_11.4_phonon-backend to collect the testing results. Please add instructions and findings. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:19 AM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:

On Sunday 30 January 2011 12:51:05 Will Stephenson wrote:

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Once this is accepted and building properly, should I submit vlc and phonon-backend-vlc to KDE:Extra?  The developers say it is ready for prime time, so it should probably be moved out of playground at this point since it is no longer considered unstable.

So we know what kinds of complaints to expect, I'd like to see some documentation on the wiki of what it can and can't do * Codecs that work OOTB * Testing of the above with audio, video content in amarok, dragonplayer, bangarang * Playing standalone, playing at the same time as other Phonon apps, playing at the same time as known exclusive apps like Xine * Can our VLC build be used with externally provided codecs?

As that I am the packager of the VLC package in Playground, I guess that I am the one who could/should answer most of the above questions.

At this moment I won't be happy and I will not accept the submission of VLC to KDE:Extra. The package does not belong there and the question is also if the package is legally ready or not.

I have stripped VLC in the same way as that Xine has been stripped. This means that most of the codecs that have some legal issue are removed. Fortunately this leaves a VLC package that can be used to build applications against.

As that VLC has build-in codecs, it is impossible to have a external package that provides codecs. All VLC packages should be replaced by either the ones from Packman or from Videolan (VLC).  These provide the full functionality. The package structure between them is identical and the one openSUSE delivers has a slight lower version number, so that it would be easy to update. (e.g. 1.5.99 vs 1.6)

Can you use VLC for building but disable publishing of it? That would force people to use the packman or VLC version until the stripped-down version is available elsewhere.

I have been using the VLC phonon backend for some time and it works fine. The only thing that I am seeing is that dragon somehow does not show video, but only sounds. But I am not sure if this is due to VLC as that I only get video when using the Xine backend.

See: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=261511 This seems to be fixed in 4.6, both gstreamer and vlc play videos, although after a brief delay. I take from the bug report hat a better fix is upcoming, and that the problem is with dragon player specifically. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:53 AM, Dave Plater wrote:

On 01/30/2011 01:51 PM, Will Stephenson wrote:

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On Sunday 30 January 2011 02:58:19 todd rme wrote:

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On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Will Stephenson

wrote:

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On Thursday 27 January 2011 18:08:39 todd rme wrote:

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I can't submit, either.

I've copied your fixed packages into KDF phonon, phonon-backend-xine (unlinked) and phonon-backend-gstreamer-0_10 (new source), doing the rename. Dave was so kind as to submit them.

Thanks guys for taking care of this, it's one less thing to do on a Friday evening!

Will

Great!  Thanks a lot.

Submissions and VLC building are both fixed, so I have submitted the updated VLC backend back to playground (renaming the obs name from phonon-vlc to phonon-backend-vlc to make it consistent with the package name).

Once this is accepted and building properly, should I submit vlc and phonon-backend-vlc to KDE:Extra?  The developers say it is ready for prime time, so it should probably be moved out of playground at this point since it is no longer considered unstable.

So we know what kinds of complaints to expect, I'd like to see some documentation on the wiki of what it can and can't do * Codecs that work OOTB * Testing of the above with audio, video content in amarok, dragonplayer, bangarang * Playing standalone, playing at the same time as other Phonon apps, playing at the same time as known exclusive apps like Xine * Can our VLC build be used with externally provided codecs?

Will

It's alleged that the 4.4.4 phonon backends download their own codecs (security review?) including a video demo with amarok and nothing negative to be found anywhere. Regards Dave P

I am not sure about VLC, but the gstreamer back-end uses packagekit to download codecs from your own enabled repositories, it doesn't go onto a random website and get them. KDE on openSUSE uses the same method for finding programs for reading files as well, so if it is a security issue it affects all of openSUSE's KDE implementation. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:21 AM, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Sonntag, 30. Januar 2011, 19:56:25 schrieb todd rme:

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I am not sure about VLC, but the gstreamer back-end uses packagekit to download codecs from your own enabled repositories,

Does this work for you on openSUSE 11.3 with KDF?

For me it does not find anything but does not fail either.

Sven

I am not sure, I have not tested it on 11.4 either, but it may need a more recent version of packagekit than 11.3 offers. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org