[opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy

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Anders Johansson

17 Jul 2010 17 Jul '10

21:03

Hi, I must have missed something crucial so I hope someone can spell it out for me so my slow mind can understand - what exactly is the idea now about upstream kde releases being built for opensuse? Right now, I start seeing 4.5.60 packages being built for UNSTABLE, before 4.5.0 has been released. Does this mean the only way I will ever get to test 4.5.0 without having 4.6 alpha packages included is to build it myself? If so, just please say so, because then I will immediately unsubscribe from all KDE:/ repositories, because they have then become fundamentally useless to me, and I will simply revert to building the packages myself like the bad old days So, what exactly is the deal? Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

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Christophe Giboudeaux

17 Jul 17 Jul

21:19

Hi, Le 17/07/2010 23:03, Anders Johansson a écrit :

...

Hi,

I must have missed something crucial so I hope someone can spell it out for me so my slow mind can understand - what exactly is the idea now about upstream kde releases being built for opensuse?

Right now, I start seeing 4.5.60 packages being built for UNSTABLE, before 4.5.0 has been released. Does this mean the only way I will ever get to test 4.5.0 without having 4.6 alpha packages included is to build it myself? If so, just please say so, because then I will immediately unsubscribe from all KDE:/ repositories, because they have then become fundamentally useless to me, and I will simply revert to building the packages myself like the bad old days

So, what exactly is the deal?

KKUD contains weekly snapshots based on KDE trunk. KDE 4.5 has been branched a few days before Akademy and KDE trunk is now opened to new features (ie: it is now the KDE 4.6 development branch). That's why the 4.5.60 snapshot is currently building on OBS. If someone is willing to maintain a 4.5 branch, it may be created (see the discussion named "KDE:Extra and KDE:UpdatedApps"). Christophe. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson

21:25

On Saturday 17 July 2010 23:19:55 Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:

...

KKUD contains weekly snapshots based on KDE trunk.

KDE 4.5 has been branched a few days before Akademy and KDE trunk is now opened to new features (ie: it is now the KDE 4.6 development branch). That's why the 4.5.60 snapshot is currently building on OBS.

If someone is willing to maintain a 4.5 branch, it may be created (see the discussion named "KDE:Extra and KDE:UpdatedApps").

Thanks for the info. The KDE: repositories are then unsubscribed, and I'll have to start building the packages for myself. Honestly, why even bother with UNSTABLE. Without consistency, it can't be of any use to any user, and I seriously doubt it's used by developers, so why waste time on it Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

18 Jul 18 Jul

06:30

Lørdag den 17. juli 2010 23:25:50 skrev Anders Johansson:

...

On Saturday 17 July 2010 23:19:55 Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:

...
KKUD contains weekly snapshots based on KDE trunk.

KDE 4.5 has been branched a few days before Akademy and KDE trunk is now opened to new features (ie: it is now the KDE 4.6 development branch). That's why the 4.5.60 snapshot is currently building on OBS.

If someone is willing to maintain a 4.5 branch, it may be created (see the discussion named "KDE:Extra and KDE:UpdatedApps").

Thanks for the info. The KDE: repositories are then unsubscribed, and I'll have to start building the packages for myself.

Honestly, why even bother with UNSTABLE. Without consistency, it can't be of any use to any user, and I seriously doubt it's used by developers, so why waste time on it

4.5 series will be available in KDE:Distro:Factory - at least until around November, when it will move to 4.6 beta. And 4.5 is being prepared in KDF _right_now_. It is still not out of the question that some volunteers will maintain a 4.5 repo beyond november - and possible before too. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

08:04

Am Samstag, 17. Juli 2010, 23:25:50 schrieb Anders Johansson:

...

On Saturday 17 July 2010 23:19:55 Christophe Giboudeaux wrote:

...
KKUD contains weekly snapshots based on KDE trunk.

KDE 4.5 has been branched a few days before Akademy and KDE trunk is now opened to new features (ie: it is now the KDE 4.6 development branch). That's why the 4.5.60 snapshot is currently building on OBS.

If someone is willing to maintain a 4.5 branch, it may be created (see the discussion named "KDE:Extra and KDE:UpdatedApps").

Thanks for the info. The KDE: repositories are then unsubscribed, and I'll have to start building the packages for myself.

Honestly, why even bother with UNSTABLE. Without consistency, it can't be of any use to any user, and I seriously doubt it's used by developers, so why waste time on it

It is absolutely consistent with its purpose, i.e. weekly snapshots of KDE trunk. Not sure what one could misunderstand about that description. It's even speeled out in the first sentence of that repo's description on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#UNSTABLE_.28KDE_trunk.29 And your speculations about its usage are pretty useless. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Anders Johansson

10:58

On Sunday 18 July 2010 10:04:16 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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It is absolutely consistent with its purpose, i.e. weekly snapshots of KDE trunk. Not sure what one could misunderstand about that description. It's even speeled out in the first sentence of that repo's description on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#UNSTABLE_.28KDE_trunk.29

And your speculations about its usage are pretty useless.

So was your comment. I'm simply saying I won't be using the repo anymore, since the new policy of not remaining with a version until it has been released, but instead moving directly into the next development version is not what I'm after, and I don't see that any regular users could find it interesting either. UNSTABLE used to be for beta testing a new release. There are scripts for checking out the latest source tree and building automatically, which to me makes a lot more sense for that kind of bleeding edge installs Upstream developers probably build their code from source, and suse developers will likely use Factory:, so UNSTABLE to me seems like a waste of time and resources, since I don't see what the target group could be. If you think this is useless speculation that is your problem. I know that build service resources are limited, and shouldn't be wasted on things that no one uses, so I think it is a fairly important question to ask. But if you use it, that's fine with me. I just won't, that's all Anders -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Mathias Homann

11:16

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Related food for thought: where is kde 4.4.5? Where should it be? According to kde.org 4.4.5 is the latest officially stable release... so in my opinion it should be available somewhere on OBS. bye, MH -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Morales Vega

11:22

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

2010/7/18 Mathias Homann :

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where is kde 4.4.5?

In KDE:Distro:Factory. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Mathias Homann

11:42

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Am Sonntag 18 Juli 2010 schrieb Cristian Morales Vega:

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2010/7/18 Mathias Homann :

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where is kde 4.4.5?

In KDE:Distro:Factory.

some of the stuff that resides in that structure has dependencies against kde 4.4.63... bye, MH -- gpg key fingerprint: 5F64 4C92 9B77 DE37 D184 C5F9 B013 44E7 27BD 763C () ascii ribbon campaign against HTML e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Binner

19 Jul 19 Jul

03:27

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday 18 July 2010 13:42:57 Mathias Homann wrote:

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In KDE:Distro:Factory. some of the stuff that resides in that structure has dependencies against kde 4.4.63...

I doubt that as 4.4.64 was afaik never in there. Check your repositories, tell package names and check for which repository/distribution they were built! Bye, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

18 Jul 18 Jul

11:52

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Søndag den 18. juli 2010 13:16:15 skrev Mathias Homann:

...

Related food for thought:

where is kde 4.4.5?

Where should it be?

According to kde.org 4.4.5 is the latest officially stable release... so in my opinion it should be available somewhere on OBS.

For now it is still in KDE:Distro:Factory, but it will be replaced by 4.5 within days, maybe hours. 4.4.5 will be the latest official upstream release for all of about two weeks(!!), i.e. until 4.5.0 is released. And it has basically zero benefits over thoroughly tested, officially supported 4.4.4 packages. I don't understand why anyone would care about 4.4.5, let alone expect people to waste time or buildpower on it. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus Slopianka

12:06

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday 18 July 2010 13:52:48 Martin Schlander wrote:

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For now it is still in KDE:Distro:Factory, but it will be replaced by 4.5 within days, maybe hours.

Someone already volunteered to create a SC 4.5 repo. Why is he not allowed to do it? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

14:45

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Am Sonntag, 18. Juli 2010, 14:06:37 schrieb Markus Slopianka:

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On Sunday 18 July 2010 13:52:48 Martin Schlander wrote:

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For now it is still in KDE:Distro:Factory, but it will be replaced by 4.5 within days, maybe hours.

Someone already volunteered to create a SC 4.5 repo. Why is he not allowed to do it?

who hinders him? Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus Slopianka

17:40

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday 18 July 2010 16:45:10 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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who hinders him?

No rights in KDE:/ I'd guess. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

19 Jul 19 Jul

08:11

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Am Sonntag, 18. Juli 2010, 19:40:29 schrieb Markus Slopianka:

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On Sunday 18 July 2010 16:45:10 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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who hinders him?

No rights in KDE:/ I'd guess.

Then put it into the home repos first, moving it is not an issue. This should really not hinder someone who really wants to have that repo. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Adrian Schröter

08:16

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Monday 19 July 2010 10:11:19 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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Am Sonntag, 18. Juli 2010, 19:40:29 schrieb Markus Slopianka:

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On Sunday 18 July 2010 16:45:10 Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
who hinders him?

No rights in KDE:/ I'd guess.

Then put it into the home repos first, moving it is not an issue. This should really not hinder someone who really wants to have that repo.

Actually, atm it would be nice NOT to double an entire KDE 4.5 project. It is just a wast of resources. It is something complete different when we will move KDE 4.6 to the Factory project later of course. bye adrian -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

08:29

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

Am Montag, 19. Juli 2010, 10:16:35 schrieb Adrian Schröter:

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On Monday 19 July 2010 10:11:19 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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Am Sonntag, 18. Juli 2010, 19:40:29 schrieb Markus Slopianka:

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On Sunday 18 July 2010 16:45:10 Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
who hinders him?

No rights in KDE:/ I'd guess.

Then put it into the home repos first, moving it is not an issue. This should really not hinder someone who really wants to have that repo.

Actually, atm it would be nice NOT to double an entire KDE 4.5 project. It is just a wast of resources.

It is something complete different when we will move KDE 4.6 to the Factory project later of course.

Of course you are right, it does not make sense to start yet another 4.5 repo, yet nobody is holding anyone back as suggested by others. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus Slopianka

09:02

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Monday 19 July 2010 10:16:35 Adrian Schröter wrote:

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Actually, atm it would be nice NOT to double an entire KDE 4.5 project. It is just a wast of resources.

This is why a simple link was proposed. I really hate to have to repeat myself over and over again. :/45 should be created NOW with Factory just being a link to it. When the SC 4.6 betas arrive, :/45 stays, but Factory becomes 4.6. Cristian Morales Vega volunteered to maintain 45: http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2010-07/msg00041.html So please, just create the link and don't confuse users with countless repo switching. Markus -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kleine

18 Jul 18 Jul

16:24

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday July 18 2010 14:06:37 Markus Slopianka wrote:

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On Sunday 18 July 2010 13:52:48 Martin Schlander wrote:

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For now it is still in KDE:Distro:Factory, but it will be replaced by 4.5 within days, maybe hours.

Someone already volunteered to create a SC 4.5 repo. Why is he not allowed to do it?

Where was that said? It just makes no sense _currently_ to have a separate :45 repo until Distro:Factory switches to 4.6 since that would just duplicate the work. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Markus Slopianka

17:40

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday 18 July 2010 18:24:58 Stephan Kleine wrote:

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Where was that said?

In another thread just a week or two ago. Check the archives.

...

It just makes no sense _currently_ to have a separate :45 repo until Distro:Factory switches to 4.6 since that would just duplicate the work.

The idea was that one is a link to the other to avoid useless repo switching. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Binner

19 Jul 19 Jul

03:23

New subject: STABLE on kde.org != STABLE on OBS (was Re: [opensuse-kde] UNSTABLE policy)

On Sunday 18 July 2010 13:16:15 Mathias Homann wrote:

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where is kde 4.4.5? Where should it be?

And the usual answer: if you think that there is a patch or bugfix which would justify to have a KDE 4.4.5 repository because of it then it should be added to KDE:Distro:STABLE's KDE 4.4.4 packages and considered for online update. Bye, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Sven Burmeister

18 Jul 18 Jul

15:00

Am Sonntag, 18. Juli 2010, 12:58:35 schrieb Anders Johansson:

...

On Sunday 18 July 2010 10:04:16 Sven Burmeister wrote:

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It is absolutely consistent with its purpose, i.e. weekly snapshots of KDE trunk. Not sure what one could misunderstand about that description. It's even speeled out in the first sentence of that repo's description on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#UNSTABLE_.28KDE_trunk.29

And your speculations about its usage are pretty useless.

So was your comment. I'm simply saying I won't be using the repo anymore,

Nope, you said "Without consistency, it can't be of any use to any user[...]". Not sure if you meant to use pluralis majestatis but if you would just stick to "I" instead of generalising your point of view it would look less polemic. Further I pointed out that UNSTABLE is perfectly consistent with its purpose and description.

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since the new policy of not remaining with a version until it has been released, but instead moving directly into the next development version is not what I'm after,

There is no new policy it always was like that.

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and I don't see that any regular users could find it interesting either. UNSTABLE used to be for beta testing a new release.

Nope, a) UNSTABLE was never meant for regular users and b) Factory was always the repo for beta testing releases, since openSUSE only does openSUSE releases.

...

There are scripts for checking out the latest source tree and building automatically, which to me makes a lot more sense for that kind of bleeding edge installs

Upstream developers probably build their code from source, and suse developers will likely use Factory:, so UNSTABLE to me seems like a waste of time and resources, since I don't see what the target group could be. If you think this is useless speculation that is your problem. I know that build service resources are limited, and shouldn't be wasted on things that no one uses, so I think it is a fairly important question to ask.

Yep, and thanks to those that put work into UNSTABLE which you used in the past and now tell them that they waste their time on something that only wastes resources.

...

But if you use it, that's fine with me. I just won't, that's all

Fair enough? Just do not generalise and stick to "I" instead of "any user". Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kleine

16:33

On Sunday July 18 2010 12:58:35 Anders Johansson wrote:

...

On Sunday 18 July 2010 10:04:16 Sven Burmeister wrote:

...
It is absolutely consistent with its purpose, i.e. weekly snapshots of KDE trunk. Not sure what one could misunderstand about that description. It's even speeled out in the first sentence of that repo's description on http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories#UNSTABLE_.28KDE_trunk.29

And your speculations about its usage are pretty useless.

So was your comment. I'm simply saying I won't be using the repo anymore, since the new policy of not remaining with a version until it has been released, but instead moving directly into the next development version is not what I'm after, and I don't see that any regular users could find it interesting either. UNSTABLE used to be for beta testing a new release. There are scripts for checking out the latest source tree and building automatically, which to me makes a lot more sense for that kind of bleeding edge installs

Unstable always was weekly trunk snapshots. Perhaps you are mixing it up with Factory?

...

Upstream developers probably build their code from source, and suse developers will likely use Factory:, so UNSTABLE to me seems like a waste of time and resources, since I don't see what the target group could be. If you think this is useless speculation that is your problem. I know that build service resources are limited, and shouldn't be wasted on things that no one uses, so I think it is a fairly important question to ask.

But if you use it, that's fine with me. I just won't, that's all

Until I'm missing something: What exactly prevents you then from using KDE:Distro:Factory and creating and maintaining a :45 repo before :Factory switches to 4.6 if you don't want to follow it? It has already been said that a 4.5 repo can easily be created if there are people who are interested in it and willing to maintain it. Same goes for :Unstable, there are people who are interested in it and willing to maintain it and therefore it exists. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

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participants (10)

Adrian Schröter
Anders Johansson
Christophe Giboudeaux
Cristian Morales Vega
Markus Slopianka
Martin Schlander
Mathias Homann
Stephan Binner
Stephan Kleine
Sven Burmeister