On 07/08/13 08:24, Felix Miata wrote:

Normally I don't connect speakers to a PC, so my experience with sound is limited. Now I have one which I'll be using for video file editing, so sound needs to work reliably, but does not in 12.1, 12.3 & 13.1m3. It does work in Mageia 3/KDE4 (but only after reconfiguration after adding previously uninstalled pulseaudio), KDE/Fedora 18 & 19 (with pulseaudio installed), and 12.2 running Trinity instead of KDE, and without pulseaudio installed.

You don't really need pulseaudio but if you do want it (because it is supposed to give you simultaneous access to more than one device [or so I am informed]) then you need to install pavucontrol which you use to configure your devices. But before even using pacucontrol you need to install alsamixer (in Yast its inside another package) and then in a terminal run 'alsamixer' - use F6 to select which sound device you are using [onboard sound or card0 then use F5 to show all the channels available; having something playing (even though you not hear anything) then use the 'm' key to activate/deactivate the channels. There will be a combination of these channels which you open which will produce your sound. Oh, using the up/down arrow while on a channel will increase/decreas its volume. BC -- Using openSUSE 12.3, KDE 4.11.0 & kernel 3.10.5-1 on a system with- AMD FX 8-core 3.6/4.2GHz processor 16GB PC14900/1866MHz Quad Channel Corsair "Vengeance" RAM Gigabyte AMD3+ m/board; Gigabyte nVidia GTX550Ti 1GB DDR5 GPU -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-08-07 11:11 (GMT+0200) Luca Beltrame composed:

Felix Miata composed:

...

have anything to do with this? Is there some kde package that KDE sounds and/or KMix depend on that isn't getting pulled in as a hard dependency (phonon/libphonon4?)?

Please check which Phonon backend you have (it should be either phonon- backend-gstreamer or phonon-backend-vlc).

# rpm -qa | grep phon f18: phonon-4.6.0-5.fc18.x86_64 phonon-backend-gstreamer-4.6.3-1.fc18.x86_64 f19: phonon-4.6.0-7.fc19.x86_64 phonon-backend-gstreamer-4.6.3-1.fc19.x86_64 mageia 3: lib64phonon4-4.6.0-4.mga3 phonon-vlc-0.6.2-1.mga3 12.1 (KDE3): libphonon4-4.5.0-9.1.2.x86_64 12.2 (Trinity, where apparently sounds all work): (null) 12.3 (KDE 4.10.5): libphonon4-4.6.0-7.4.1.x86_64 13.1M3 (KDE 4.10.97): libphonon4-4.6.0-10.4.x86_64 So, apparently in openSUSE, no part of sound system in KDE that depends on some phonon backend being installed forces any to be installed. :-( -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-08-07 14:11 (GMT+0200) šumski composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

So, apparently in openSUSE, no part of sound system in KDE that depends on some phonon backend being installed forces any to be installed. :-(

IIRC phonon-backend-gstreamer is a part of a pattern, and libphonon4 recommends virtual phonon-backend package. Just note that currently in 13.1/Factory, only working backend is vlc's.

Patterns installed on currently booted thread subject host's 13.1m3: patterns-openSUSE-base-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-enhanced_base-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-enhanced_base_opt-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-fonts-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-fonts_opt-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-sw_management-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-update_test-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-x11-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-x11_opt-13.1-6.3.x86_64 patterns-openSUSE-x11_yast-13.1-6.3.x86_64 Absence of *kde* in that list is probably because I always install minimal along with tabooing such things I never use as kdepim4, ktorrent, kontact, konversation, kopete & kmail, which saves both disk space and update bandwidth. From the list of available kde patterns, it's not obvious which if any provides a minimal KDE environment. I've never figured out if there is a way using zypper to get a useful pattern package description. If I knew of one I'd be using it. I don't suppose anyone can tell me why if I zypper in Factory's 0.6.2 only it, libvlc5 and libvlccore5 will be installed, but if I want Packman's (0.6.0), 39 packages will be installed (almost same result as 'zypper in vlc', which will install 38, of which phonon-backend-vlc is conspicuously absent), can anyone? Since I want Packman's vlc anyway, but just haven't gotten around to it yet on 13.1 because of $SUBJECT, I'm puzzled what I should do next. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-08-07 11:11 (GMT+0200) Luca Beltrame composed:

...

Felix Miata composed:

...

...

have anything to do with this? Is there some kde package that KDE sounds and/or KMix depend on that isn't getting pulled in as a hard dependency (phonon/libphonon4?)?

...

Please check which Phonon backend you have (it should be either phonon- backend-gstreamer or phonon-backend-vlc).

zypper -v in phonon-backend-vlc-0.6.2-1.1 fixed this in 13.1m3, and 0.6.0-1.3 in 12.3. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

In data sabato 05 ottobre 2013 02:29:12, Felix Miata ha scritto:

Analog Stereo". Shortly after login, a window pops up saying "Phonon's VLC backend failed to start". Can sound from KDE in 13.1B1 currently be made to

Which VLC version are you using? This happens if phonon-vlc is built against a major (and incompatible) version of VLC and you have a different version installed. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79

On Saturday 05 of October 2013 04:08:50 Felix Miata wrote:

I can't tell about this "build against". Installed packages and other info at: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/gx28b-os131b1.txt

Could you try installing vlc-noX (and possibly also vlc) package? If that doesn't work, can you try with env variables[1] for more debug? -------- [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Debugging/Phonon#Environment_V...

On Saturday 05 of October 2013 20:24:08 Basil Chupin wrote:

In the first instance, do you have alsamixer installed and have you used it to configure your sound card/chip and the channels? Until you do this you won't get any sound. Why that? I am using factory, and as far as i recall, i never needed to utilize alsamixer to get some music on ;-) At least from Felixes description, it seems he is using PA.

Secondly, if you want to get a working version of VLC then install it from-

videolan.org/pub/vlc/SuSE/Factory The one in Beta #1 is - ahem.... - well...... just install the one from videolan.org. Also, why that? What is wrong with the vlc package? Only possible missing thing is the codecs package, which is an aditional package on top of the (lib)vlc ones from standard repos.

On 2013-10-05 10:55 (GMT+0200) šumski composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

I can't tell about this "build against". Installed packages and other info at: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/gx28b-os131b1.txt

Could you try installing vlc-noX (and possibly also vlc) package? If that doesn't work, can you try with env variables[1] for more debug?

-------- [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Debugging/Phonon#Environment_V...

That third system apparently has broken sound no matter which release of openSUSE or Fedora I boot, so I've put it aside. On a fourth system with 13.1b1, 4.11.2 and Intel sound, with KDE4 sound working when booted to 12.1, I don't ever even get an error message that says phonon-backend-vlc failed to start. YaST2 test sound works, but KDE4 system sounds still aren't happening. This has uname, lsmod, hwinfo, repos, installed rpms and .xsession-errors: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/t2240-os131b1.txt Tail of /var/zypp/history/: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/zypphistory-t2240.txt -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 05 of October 2013 02:29:12 Felix Miata wrote:

I have at least two 13.1B1/KDE4 systems with Intel audio and no sounds from KDE, in spite of phonon-backend-vlc-0.6.80 being installed. YaST2 does play a test sound. Kmix shows two sliders described as for "Built-In Audio Analog Stereo". Shortly after login, a window pops up saying "Phonon's VLC backend failed to start". Can sound from KDE in 13.1B1 currently be made to work with without gstreamer*? Some weeks ago I remember reading here or on Factory list that gstreamer backend was broken. I don't see much point in installing gstreamer* on a system that's going to have VLC regardless.

Does http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/xsession-errors-gx270-os131b1.txt help? OK, had a better look at this one now: [0x85dc9d8] main libvlc error: No plugins found! Check your VLC installation. PHONON-VLC [FATAL__] libVLC: could not initialize

As i suggested, does installing vlc-nox helps?

On Saturday 05 of October 2013 17:43:58 Felix Miata wrote:

Same system booted to 12.3 works as expected (no manual configuration required for KDE4 start and stop sounds to work): http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/t2240-os123.txt

OK, as pointed out, and visible from your package list, on this install you have vlc, vlc-noX and vlc-codecs, which are not present on your 13.1 install.

No help, even after reboot. Additionally, there is no more any popup shortly after session startup telling me "Phonon's VLC backend failed to start", and no string containing phono in .xsession-errors, even after also installing vlc. OK, that is now a bit strange already. Do you have there those phonon env's exported? yesno - can you try to open phonon's kcm and paste results?/can you

On Saturday 05 of October 2013 19:39:00 Felix Miata wrote: try enabling them?

Booting same host gx270 system to 12.3, which has only the 4 standard repos configured, no sound from KDE, and no additional packages required to install previously uninstalled kmix. zypper se -s vlc returns nothing, which begs the question: what exactly is required to have any sound at all in KDE without enabling any optional repos? Apparently something's different between 12.3 and 13.1, because 12.3's only phonon-backend to be found via zypper or yast2 search is (the ancient and obsolete) gstreamer-0_10, and installing it does make KDE4 12.3's sound work. That is due the fact that only gstreamer backend was part of the distro for 12.3. Additionally, vlc itself is also available only since 13.1.

There is also option of installing vlc and vlc-codecs packages. With vlc package alone there should definitely be some sound, otherwise there is something else wrong. Could you check in KMix that default output isn't e.g. dummy or HDMI ? Also would be good if you could try running phonon's sound test (kcmshell4 phonon, 2nd tab).

Also, why doesn't installation of kmix depend on whatever sound support package(s) KDE depends on being installed? IOW, if some phonon-backend is a hard requirement, why is kmix allowed to install if neither phonon-backend has been or is being installed? Technically, no phonon backend is requirement for utilizing KMix, as it can control also other applications/PA/etc. Backends are required, to achieve a functional sound output, only for (KDE) applications that use (lib)phonon, e.g. juk, dragon, amarok, tomahawk, kscd, etc.

Why is it whatever YaST2 depends on to play a test sound successfully isn't sufficient for sound in KDE to work? Put another way, shouldn't YaST2 be using the same method as the DE it's running in? No idea what YaST uses, but it's definitely not phonon, but either alsa directly, or PA.

I don't remember whether this (gx62b) is one of the first two 13.1b1 hosts I noticed sound not working on, or whether it's a fifth. It's newer than gx270 and t2240, and easier to access, so I expect I will try to limit further activity in this thread to using only it as much as possible at least until some kind of progress figuring out the obstacle appears. Most data: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/gx62b-os131b1-tst2000.txt Output from kcmshell4 phonon: http://fm.no-ip.com/Tmp/SUSE/kcm-phonon-gx62b-tst2000.txt WRT "main libvlc error: No plugins found! Check your VLC installation." contained there, zypper se -s plug | grep vlc produces nothing, so I have no idea what its problem could be. This is the first in thread where I used a regular user instead of root, thinking maybe the problem could have something to do with VLC being denied run access absent a bunch of extra hoop jumping to do so. It didn't help. Note the data is before installing VLC and its 4 or so extra deps over what vlc-noX requires, with only vlx-noX, phonon-backend-vlc and their deps installed. I tried again after installing VLC, but it didn't help. Still YaST2 can produce sound, but on this host, kcmshell4 phonon's #2 tab is for backend. There is no tab that provides an opportunity to test sound, even if done logged in as root. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-10-06 10:52 (GMT+0200) Raymond Wooninck composed:

Felix Miata wrote:

...

This is the first in thread where I used a regular user instead of root, thinking maybe the problem could have something to do with VLC being denied run access absent a bunch of extra hoop jumping to do so. It didn't help. Note the data is before installing VLC and its 4 or so extra deps over what vlc-noX requires, with only vlx-noX, phonon-backend-vlc and their deps installed. I tried again after installing VLC, but it didn't help. Still YaST2 can produce sound, but on this host, kcmshell4 phonon's #2 tab is for backend. There is no tab that provides an opportunity to test sound, even if done logged in as root.

Let's put one thing clear. Trying to produce sound in YaST2 doesn't have anything to do with the phonon setup, nor the fact that if it works in YaST2 it will work in KDE as well. Two different setups that are 80% different from eachother. The only thing they have in common is the computer hardware (speakers, soundboard).

So given that YaST2 works, we can rule out that it is an hardware problem. So

And also rule out kernel module problem, and maybe /etc/group as obstacle.

based on this there are three possible situations:

1) VLC does not work. Could you try to open VLC and play any mediafile (mp3, ogg, etc). If the media file is played correctly, then VLC is installed correctly.

Works... [OT: except in normal testing mode, which means logged in as root. To know this one must either remember VLC denies access to the superuser who doesn't jump through extra hoops, or start VLC from Konsole, so that the error message isn't lost in the ether. This upstream policy is why I prefer SMPlayer - it's testable by the super tester lacking eidedic memory.]

2) Phonon might be installed wrong. Please open systemsettings, go to MultiMedia and select there Audio/Video settings. You should see now which devices phonon has recognized for which output category (notifications, music, etc). As that we are looking at system notifications, please click on notifications and see which device has been setup as default. Also click in the bottom part on "Test" to see if there is a sound output. If the device is correct and by using "Test" there is sound, then Phonon is setup correctly

Note in what you quoted that this was a first normal user instance. What I failed to make clear is that we are dealing with default configuration found by a previously virgin user. That said, for audio playback notifications the right pane shows two line items: Intel ICH7 (Intel ICH7) Intel ICH7, Intel ICH7 (Default Audio Device) Selecting either and then clicking test produces no sound, both as normal user and as root.

3) Are the notifications enabled ? Again in systemsettings, go to Application and System notifications In the Event Source, select there "KDE Workspace" to see the notifications for login, logout, etc. Check if for the login the "Play a sound" is activated and if there is a soundfile indicated. Before the file is a button that you can press to test the sound. Please check if the sound plays correctly. Also check the Tab (Player Settings) and make sure that the option "Use the KDE Sound System" is active.

http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/KDE/soundconfig4112-gx62b.png It seems by default sound for login and logout are disabled. But, testing any that are enabled fails. When I took the snapshot, the LibVLC Failed to Initialize window popped up again. Eureka! Could the problem be related to both libvlccore5 (2.0.8a) and libvlccore7 (2.1.0) simultaneously installed on these systems? Attempting to remove 5 wants to remove phonon-backend-vlc. Attempting to remove 7 wants to remove it and vlc-codecs, and downgrade vlc, vlc-noX, vlc-qt, & libvlc5 from VideoLAN to openSUSE. I proceeded with the latter. Testing notifications now works. And with the default of nothing for KDE Workspace login and logout switched to play a sound, they work. And, this functionality is without pulseaudio installed (though libpulse-mainloop-glib0 and libpulse0 are; why, I have no clue). It seems one moral of this thread is that if VideoLAN is enabled one cannot simply zypper dup as is normal for pre-release upgrading. Probably now that VLC is in the distro best to not enable VideoLAN at all. I wonder what this bodes for after 13.1 is GA when people want VLC to just work for all media types, like on Windows? Another is that default disabling of login and logout sound is a bad policy. Is this set by openSUSE, or is it an uncorrected upstream default? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 2013-10-06 11:56 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

It seems by default sound for login and logout are disabled. ... default disabling of login and logout sound is a bad policy. Is this set by openSUSE, or is it an uncorrected upstream default?

Ping! -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

* Raymond Wooninck [10-14-13 04:29]:

On Monday 14 October 2013 02:47:05 Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2013-10-06 11:56 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

...

It seems by default sound for login and logout are disabled.

...

...

default disabling of login and logout sound is a bad policy. Is this set by openSUSE, or is it an uncorrected upstream default?

Ping!

Pong. This was set upstream as an explicit default. It is left to the user to enable the login and logout sounds if that is the users wish. I don't think that there is any desire to change this behavior for the openSUSE packages.

Ping-Pong! I have no problem with this as a *default* policy but why does this *default* policy impose itself on updated installation rather than retaining the <user>'s already configured choice? I had logon/logoff sounds enabled and a recent update decided, unbeknownst to me, that it had a duty to reset them to "off". poor choice! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

* šumski [10-14-13 09:57]:

On Monday 14 of October 2013 09:43:32 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Raymond Wooninck [10-14-13 04:29]:

...

On Monday 14 October 2013 02:47:05 Felix Miata wrote:

...

On 2013-10-06 11:56 (GMT-0400) Felix Miata composed:

...

It seems by default sound for login and logout are disabled.

...

...

default disabling of login and logout sound is a bad policy. Is this set by openSUSE, or is it an uncorrected upstream default?

Ping!

Pong. This was set upstream as an explicit default. It is left to the user to enable the login and logout sounds if that is the users wish. I don't think that there is any desire to change this behavior for the openSUSE packages. Ping-Pong!

I have no problem with this as a *default* policy but why does this *default* policy impose itself on updated installation rather than retaining the <user>'s already configured choice?

I had logon/logoff sounds enabled and a recent update decided, unbeknownst to me, that it had a duty to reset them to "off".

poor choice!

Change is effective for those that *did not* change any setting, and relied on upstream setting as is. If one would explicitly enable/disable a setting per user, and upstream would change that, users setting would be left intact.

"POINT" is: I had not changed that setting as I was satisfied with it. The change was w/o my knowledge or intention which is *wrong*. There are *many* _default_ settings which one accepts as satisfactory/desired. Are *they* now subject to change w/o my knowledge or intent. Again "very poor choice". A default choice is for something new and/or previously unset, not to apply to setting previously chosen or applied by "default". -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

* Raymond Wooninck [10-14-13 10:11]:

On Monday 14 October 2013 10:06:17 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

"POINT" is: I had not changed that setting as I was satisfied with it. The change was w/o my knowledge or intention which is *wrong*. There are *many* _default_ settings which one accepts as satisfactory/desired. Are *they* now subject to change w/o my knowledge or intent.

Again "very poor choice". A default choice is for something new and/or previously unset, not to apply to setting previously chosen or applied by "default".

Patrick,

As indicated before already, this was a change that was made upstream. So if you disagree with this one, then maybe it would be good to bring this discussion upstream by raising a bug report on bugs.kde.org

Bug #326009 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=326009 choose systemsettings ?? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander said the following on 10/14/2013 12:01 PM:

Mandag den 14. oktober 2013 10:06:17 skrev Patrick Shanahan:

...

"POINT" is: I had not changed that setting as I was satisfied with it.

Until now I don't think I had ever heard of anyone who likes the startup and shutdown sounds :-)

Damn right! I was once, many years ago, embarrassed when starting my laptop during a lecture, by the startup sound. Never again! Enough to drive one to apply wire-cutters to the loudspeakers. I don't care if they are expensive Harmon-kardon ones; if we can't shut off the sound or if the upgrade turns it back on, we might be driven to that!

I hope they also turned off a bunch of the other default sound notifications. Annoying defaults like that, are very detrimental to KDE.

Yes, keyclicks, opening and closing windows ... all annoyances, all things we really can do without. -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

* Martin Schlander [10-14-13 12:03]:

Mandag den 14. oktober 2013 10:06:17 skrev Patrick Shanahan:

...

"POINT" is: I had not changed that setting as I was satisfied with it.

Until now I don't think I had ever heard of anyone who likes the startup and shutdown sounds :-)

I hope they also turned off a bunch of the other default sound notifications. Annoying defaults like that, are very detrimental to KDE.

That is beside the "POINT". The act of changing settings on my system w/o notification is WRONG! -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan said the following on 10/14/2013 01:53 PM:

Unfortunately if appears nearly everyone has completely missed the point.

The act of changing settings on my system w/o notification is WRONG!

Right. I turned all sounds OFF and I don't ant ANY of them turned back on. -- How long did the whining go on when KDE2 went on KDE3? The only universal constant is change. If a species can not adapt it goes extinct. That's the law of the universe, adapt or die. -- Billie Walsh, May 18 2013 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

* šumski [10-14-13 14:11]:

On Monday 14 of October 2013 13:53:47 Patrick Shanahan wrote: [...]

...

The act of changing settings on my system w/o notification is WRONG! Yes, but they *where not* your settings. As said already, and above, you relied on upstream choice, which took another direction with 4.11. Users/administrator settings belong to dot files and /etc, and those where not changed, no?

Yes, they *were* my settings by me accepting them as presented, not changing them to something else. Is the next update (with upstream involved) going to again change what I have decided I want my system to do? I'm going to let this lie down here. I believe *any* setting made or accepted as presented to me on my system is the same as me actually selecting that setting, editing it to be what it is now. No-one should change setting on my machine w/o notice. No setting change. If it is necessary for any reason to change a setting or an accepted default setting on my computer, I *must* be notified. Who-ever, upstream, downstream, mid-stream or on the bank is *aware* that they are making configuration changes default or otherwise that will be applied to my system. After all, they are knowingly making changes from what was, not just carrying on status-quo. I have no knowledge these changes are made w/o notification until something breaks, hits me in the face, or causes some other concern. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org