Am Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011, 22:33:34 schrieb Bruno Friedmann:

On 02/16/2011 09:12 PM, Karsten König wrote:

...

Heya,

11.4 is comming up quickly and there will be no general branch update for kde, so it's single bug fixing, they won't disappear by a sudden rush of changes anymore. The 11.4 release will probably see another increase again.

Don't be pessimistic 4.6 rocks :-)

I didn't mean to, I love 4.6, it's just that skimming over a few 4.6 branches there are quite some changes with attached bko bugreports, so I just assume these will hit us sooner or later when our users trigger them.

...

So in the last meeting I raised a question how we could get better bug triage coverage especially validating bugs and finding possible upstream bug fixes.

Bille had the idea of dedicated bug search querries and people who will cover them to increase the chance to gain knowledge in this area, the best example might be kdepim, validating a range of kmail bugs to upstream reports will be faster then switching from an okular crash to a plasma graphical glitch to a power munching kded process.

That's a super cool idea the pre-made query : Bille just check if they can be shared, we tried that with bwiedermann, and they are stored in the bugzilla account (but was in November)

Lubos did pre-made queries for KDE Bugsquashs http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Bug_Squashing_KDE These were more intended for bug ranges over a certain openSUSE release or Priority. You can create queries by openening the web console in Firefox with ctrl+shift+k and just performing the search through the bugzilla webinterface This for example searches for plasma in opensuse 11.4 m5, m6 and rc1 on open reports https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?short_desc=plasma&classification=openSUSE&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&version=Factory&version=Milestone%205%20of%206&version=Milestone%206%20of%206&version=RC%201&product=openSUSE%2011.4

...

This would include a general splitting up into groups: pim, workspace, defaults, random-apps

sounds good to me.

...

Most important is finding out about upstream reports and possible patches, these save a ton of time and can be applied quickly, spotting regular reporters and inviting them into #opensuse-kde might be a good idea as well to get them about the team.

Finding upstream could be easy if we can emulate the crash report done by drkonqi Most of the bug I encounter during the factory 11.4 process goes directly upstream. My bad, is that I didn't open each time a novell one, only when I found that only opensuse people where impacted.

Is that a good practice or not ?

If it should be fixed in 11.4 (or older) this needs to be reported in our bugtracker, otherwise we don't know about upstream fixes. The best would be to file a bugreport when there is a patch ready for a problem affecting opensuse releases which won't autobenefit from upstream patches, this can be said of all 'released releases' plus Factory when we are close to a Release (around rc1) Cheers, Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2011, 13:21:16 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:

On Thursday, February 17, 2011 00:03:53 Karsten König wrote:

...

Am Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011, 22:33:34 schrieb Bruno Friedmann:

...

On 02/16/2011 09:12 PM, Karsten König wrote:

...

11.4 is comming up quickly and there will be no general branch update for kde, so it's single bug fixing, they won't disappear by a sudden rush of changes anymore. The 11.4 release will probably see another increase again.

Don't be pessimistic 4.6 rocks :-)

Certainly does, but it's still at .0 right now =)

...

I didn't mean to, I love 4.6, it's just that skimming over a few 4.6 branches there are quite some changes with attached bko bugreports, so I just assume these will hit us sooner or later when our users trigger them.

We are going to ship 4.6.1, no? That one contains a large number of fixes as well.

Unlikely [Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011] [16:48:21] wstephenson: about 4.6.1, branch updates are propably not going to happen for 11.4 anymore right? [Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011] [16:49:16] <wstephenson> remur_030: no, coolo only wants critical fixes in RC2 The timing is a bit of a bummer, 4.6.1 releases on 1st of march while opensuse 11.4 goldmaster ist on 3rd, and with the track record of not only including bugfixes in point releases I can atleast understand coolos decision. Cheers, Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Hey, On Thursday, February 17, 2011 13:55:45 Karsten König wrote:

The timing is a bit of a bummer, 4.6.1 releases on 1st of march while opensuse 11.4 goldmaster ist on 3rd, and with the track record of not only including bugfixes in point releases I can atleast understand coolos decision.

Would be good to communicate that to the release team. My impression was that we (as in upstream KDE) have been pretty disciplined in including only bugfixes, and therefore making the point releases more suitable for downstream updates. If that's not the case, we might as well not ship .1 versions and just ask all distros to cherry-pick their updates from master. That won't make anybody happy. Especially for 4.6.1, there's such a large number of fixes in, that basically 11.4 is _already_ outdated if we don't ship 4.6.1. Cheers, -- sebas http://www.kde.org | http://vizZzion.org | GPG Key ID: 9119 0EF9 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 17 Feb 2011 18:57, Sven Burmeister wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2011, 17:22:45 schrieb Sebastian Kügler:

...

Especially for 4.6.1, there's such a large number of fixes in, that basically 11.4 is _already_ outdated if we don't ship 4.6.1.

+1

Is there a way to get a list of all bug numbers that have been fixed since 4.6.0 came out? I would be happy to feed them one by one into bnc just to make sure nobody could not have noticed that it is impossible for Will to do all the work of cherry picking from all those and backporting them + taking care of the zypp backend + taking care of knm etc. pp. and a waste of time compared to a branch update.

Oh, and there is the nvidia bug which is a real showstopper imho (compared to some klipper shortcut not working as documented) and which also lies on Will's shoulders.

+1 4.6.0 is not usable on many Nettops / Laptops atm. Neither KR46 nor KDF repo. Heve given telephon 'downgrade' support to KR45 for some of my friend which where testing 11.4 rc1 over the weekend. On my Box (atom330, 64bit, ION), I could NOT get 11.4 rc1 working right. Neither nouveau nor nvidia 260.19.36 where able to get KDE from 11.4 rc1 working, LXDE and XFCE was fine, haven't had the time to test Gnome beyond some gtk2+ apps (gimp,firefox,thunderbird). IMHO a 4.6.1pre in GM and 4.6.1final in update-repo would be a better way to satifaction. Cheers, Yamaban out.

On Thursday 17 Feb 2011 19:13:14 Yamaban wrote:

+1

4.6.0 is not usable on many Nettops / Laptops atm. Neither KR46 nor KDF repo. Heve given telephon 'downgrade' support to KR45 for some of my friend which where testing 11.4 rc1 over the weekend.

On my Box (atom330, 64bit, ION), I could NOT get 11.4 rc1 working right. Neither nouveau nor nvidia 260.19.36 where able to get KDE from 11.4 rc1 working, LXDE and XFCE was fine, haven't had the time to test Gnome beyond some gtk2+ apps (gimp,firefox,thunderbird).

IMHO a 4.6.1pre in GM and 4.6.1final in update-repo would be a better way to satifaction.

Your position is just about the NVIDIA issue, or are their other serious problems? If so, bug numbers, please. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=648718 Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH - Nürnberg - AG Nürnberg - HRB 16746 - GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 10:49, Will Stephenson wrote:

On Thursday 17 Feb 2011 19:13:14 Yamaban wrote: <snip> Your position is just about the NVIDIA issue, or are their other serious problems? If so, bug numbers, please.

https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=648718

AFAIK and could test (only 4h time) it's not a NVIDIA issue per se but a combination of OpenGL usage in KDE and nv-driver version. Did another short test today with intersting results, not not wholy reproducable: Take 11.4 rc1, use latest nv-beta driver (270.xx) and only some slowdowns remain, e.g. even with effects off via settings, the switch from virtual-desktop to virtual-desktop is simply like wading trough honey. If one does replace ksmserver with openbox from LXDE, it's fast and nice but of course missing the special integration of ksmserver. On the other hand using Xrender instead of OpenGL, is slower overall, but no extra slowdowns, even with some of the effects on. Also got some feedback from friends with AMD graphics, even with the new integrated GPU, and they are raving about the quality and improvement, esp. with the FOSS drivers. Sadly no time for testing this weekend, RL greets. Cheers, Yamaban out. PS: Is there any way of switching off just some of the OpenGL in KDE? e.g: Only using a lower version subset? -- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On 02/17/2011 11:22 AM, Sebastian Kügler wrote:

Hey,

On Thursday, February 17, 2011 13:55:45 Karsten König wrote:

...

The timing is a bit of a bummer, 4.6.1 releases on 1st of march while opensuse 11.4 goldmaster ist on 3rd, and with the track record of not only including bugfixes in point releases I can atleast understand coolos decision.

Would be good to communicate that to the release team. My impression was that we (as in upstream KDE) have been pretty disciplined in including only bugfixes, and therefore making the point releases more suitable for downstream updates.

If that's not the case, we might as well not ship .1 versions and just ask all distros to cherry-pick their updates from master. That won't make anybody happy.

Especially for 4.6.1, there's such a large number of fixes in, that basically 11.4 is _already_ outdated if we don't ship 4.6.1.

Cheers, Since the dates as so close. Can we include 4.6.1 as an update for 11.4?

Cheers! Roman "Six by nine. Forty two." "That's it. That's all there is." "I always thought something was fundamentally wrong with the universe" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

On Saturday February 19 2011 12:44:56 Anders Johansson wrote:

On Thursday 17 February 2011 13:55:45 Karsten König wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2011, 13:21:16 schrieb Sebastian Kügler: [...]

...

...

We are going to ship 4.6.1, no? That one contains a large number of fixes as well.

Unlikely [Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011] [16:48:21] wstephenson: about 4.6.1, branch updates are propably not going to happen for 11.4 anymore right? [Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2011] [16:49:16] <wstephenson> remur_030: no, coolo only wants critical fixes in RC2

That doesn't preclude releasing 4.6.1 as an update for 11.4 once the gold master is done. That has been done before

Sure, just proof that there aren't any regressions in 4.6.1. Thanks :) If you want to stick with KDE upstream just use some KR4X repo or KDF and be happy? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 19. Februar 2011, 13:34:28 schrieb Sven Burmeister:

Am Samstag, 19. Februar 2011, 12:57:09 schrieb Stephan Kleine:

...

...

That doesn't preclude releasing 4.6.1 as an update for 11.4 once the gold master is done. That has been done before

Sure, just proof that there aren't any regressions in 4.6.1. Thanks :)

Is that your only argument? So I claim, better one regression that can be fixed than 100 unfixed bugs.

And exactly this is wrong. People can live with lots of bugs when they have installed or updated to a new system. But they can not live with a single one which appears suddenly and block their work, when they did not any risky like adding a repo. An update from one version to another one means either you understand completly every line of code change entirely. Or you do a beta test phase for some time. In best case of course both. -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Samstag, 19. Februar 2011, 13:09:14 schrieb Martin Schlander:

It was done _once_ under special circumstances (SLE11sp1). And it caused problems (though mainly because kupdateapplet was completely unable to handle an update of that magnitude).

Exactly. It went very well or do you know about any regressions introduced (that could not get fixed)?

But then, there was a very good reason for it. Noone has come up with any particularly good reason why 4.6.0++ isn't "good enough" or why 4.6.1 is soooooo much better. Because if they were able to say that, they'd also be able to point to specific fixes which should be included.

Sure it's good enough, if that's all you aim for. But it's not better than 4.6.1 and further minor releases. So if you aim at providing the best, your argument fails. Also, 11.4 is not good enough until the NVIDIA bug got fixed.

I for one support coolo's "only critical fixes" policy. It's a bad idea running the risk this late - again, if there are specific important fixes we should have, then they _can_ still be included.

The whole point is that we should have never been that late and the reason why it got to that point is that there is not enough staff.

4.6.0++ is treating me very well. I don't see why there'd be such an urgent need to do drastic things.

Drastic? kdepim 4.6 to get imap + suspend working would be drastic. KDE 4.6.1 would be a minor release with another four weeks testing. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2011, 12:53:11 schrieb Křištof Želechovski:

Dnia środa, 16 lutego 2011 o 22:33:34 Bruno Friedmann napisał(a):

...

On 02/16/2011 09:12 PM, Karsten König wrote:

...

Heya,

11.4 is comming up quickly and there will be no general branch update for kde, so it's single bug fixing, they won't disappear by a sudden rush of changes anymore. The 11.4 release will probably see another increase again.

Don't be pessimistic 4.6 rocks :-)

Only if you do not care about:

* the keyboard switcher (significantly slower) * Klipper (Ctrl+Alt+V does not work as documented) * application information windows (cannot mark text in some of them) * documentation (KHelpCenter does not have a Search tab any more)

These are real showstoppers for me :-(

Bug#? We really can't track random bugs thrown at us over the list, so even if there is a slim chance for this to be fixed the chances mentioning bullet points on opensuse-kde are pretty slim

OTOH, Nepomuk sort-of works (although it does not do exactly what I need) and I am finally able to read manual pages in KHelpCenter (once I figure out where to find them, and fingers crossed).

Chris

Cheers, Karsten -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde+help@opensuse.org