[opensuse-kde] Should we start building KDE:Applications against KDE:Frameworks5 for Leap 42.1?

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Wolfgang Bauer

24 Aug 2016 24 Aug '16

20:35

Hi! I decided to ask this question here as well, as it mainly affects users. So, should we start building KDE:Applications against KDE:Frameworks5 for Leap 42.1? The reason I ask is that currently with KDE Applications 16.08, over 70 packages fail to build for Leap 42.1. This is mainly KDEPIM, as it requires Qt 5.6 and Frameworks 5.23 now, Leap 42.1 only has Qt 5.5.1 and Frameworks 5.21. So we cannot provide the current KDEPIM for Leap 42.1 any more. Also other packages were changed to use a macro for the appstream data location that is not defined in Leap 42.1 (this would be fixable by defining it in the project config though without affecting users). And currently KDE:Applications is not completely compatible to KDE:Frameworks5/KDE:Qt5 because akonadi is built against Qt 5.5.1 and isn't installable with Qt 5.7 because it (or its sqlite plugin) uses internal/private Qt headers. The disadvantage would be that everybody who wants to use KDE:Applications on Leap 42.1 would also need to add KDE:Frameworks5 and KDE:Qt5 to get the latest packages there. And this would also introduce a possible incompatibility with KDE:Extra, which currently also only builds against standard Leap 42.1 (+Updates). This only affects skrooge though AFAIK. (would be solvable by building KDE:Extra against KDE:Frameworks5 as well, or adding an additional KDE:Extra:openSUSE_KDE_Frameworks5 repo, similar as it has been done for KDE:Current:openSUSE_13.1 in the past) Opinions are welcome, especially (but not only) from Leap 42.1 users. Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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Thomas Leineweber

24 Aug 24 Aug

20:47

Am 24.08.2016 um 22:35 schrieb Wolfgang Bauer:

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Hi!

I decided to ask this question here as well, as it mainly affects users.

So, should we start building KDE:Applications against KDE:Frameworks5 for Leap 42.1?

...

Opinions are welcome, especially (but not only) from Leap 42.1 users.

I have two 42.1 installations, one of them has the additional repos KDE:Frameworks5 and KDE:Applications. I have also seen that kdepim is not building anymore in K:A. I would like to have it available for 42.1, too. My main usecase for having again the possibility to show your calendar-entries as addon for the desktop clock. This is the last feature missing (for my workload and usage). But as you said, there should be an easy way for those who currently only have KDE:Applications enabled. In short: +0.95 :) Thomas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Cor Blom

21:24

Op 24-08-16 om 22:35 schreef Wolfgang Bauer:

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And currently KDE:Applications is not completely compatible to KDE:Frameworks5/KDE:Qt5 because akonadi is built against Qt 5.5.1 and isn't installable with Qt 5.7 because it (or its sqlite plugin) uses internal/private Qt headers.

Not a KDE package, but calibre also uses private headers and only works with the Qt version that it is build against. Kind regards, Cor -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Bruno Friedmann

25 Aug 25 Aug

05:58

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Opinions are welcome, especially (but not only) from Leap 42.1 users.

I'm in favor of doing whatever is needed to have a simple concept to understand by end-users. So having (already) 3 repos as addons for the whole stack is complicated. Once we (as end user) setup those, I guess the expectaction is having the last and greatest (stable) version. So a +100 to have all of them rebuild together. There's oss+update in case, and a old KDE:Extras can be redone if neededd ? I guess this will also prepare the future for 42.2 -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Raymond Wooninck

08:38

On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:

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Opinions are welcome, especially (but not only) from Leap 42.1 users.

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So a +100 to have all of them rebuild together. There's oss+update in case, and a old KDE:Extras can be redone if neededd ?

We stopped providing updates to Leap 42.1 as that the Qt5 version in Leap was too old for Frameworks/Applications. An update of Qt5 itself could have quite some consequences and the target was also that Qt5 was a package that was supported from the SLE side and not from the openSUSE side. Yes, the additional repositories (Frameworks/Qt5/Applications) could be installed, but the question would also be if the newer Qt5 packages would cause any issues to the rest of the system. I noticed that some packages were already indicated which could have problems and I am not sure if YaST would still work with a newer Qt5 version than it was build against. Maybe it works, but it could as well backfire and cause an unstable system.

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I guess this will also prepare the future for 42.2

No, The targets for 42.2 are completely different and here we are targeting to have the LTS version for Qt5 and Plasma. This should prevent the above situation, unless users are demanding that the LTS version of Plasma (which is Plasma 5.8) is not sufficient and that they want to have e.g. Plasma 5.10 with newer features. However for those cases we can only offer the KDE:Frameworks/KDE:Applications repositories, which would be build against Leap 42.2 Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Bruno Friedmann

15:19

On jeudi, 25 août 2016 10.38:51 h CEST Raymond Wooninck wrote:

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On Thu, Aug 25, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...
...
Opinions are welcome, especially (but not only) from Leap 42.1 users.

So a +100 to have all of them rebuild together. There's oss+update in case, and a old KDE:Extras can be redone if neededd ?

We stopped providing updates to Leap 42.1 as that the Qt5 version in Leap was too old for Frameworks/Applications. An update of Qt5 itself could have quite some consequences and the target was also that Qt5 was a package that was supported from the SLE side and not from the openSUSE side.

Yes, the additional repositories (Frameworks/Qt5/Applications) could be installed, but the question would also be if the newer Qt5 packages would cause any issues to the rest of the system. I noticed that some packages were already indicated which could have problems and I am not sure if YaST would still work with a newer Qt5 version than it was build against.

Maybe it works, but it could as well backfire and cause an unstable system.

...
I guess this will also prepare the future for 42.2

No, The targets for 42.2 are completely different and here we are targeting to have the LTS version for Qt5 and Plasma. This should prevent the above situation, unless users are demanding that the LTS version of Plasma (which is Plasma 5.8) is not sufficient and that they want to have e.g. Plasma 5.10 with newer features. However for those cases we can only offer the KDE:Frameworks/KDE:Applications repositories, which would be build against Leap 42.2

Regards

Raymond

Hello Raymond, A big big thanks for the explanations. Which put lights on some important points about Leap 42.1. So for 42.1 which should be EOL in April I guess there's not that much hope without making you, our beloved kde packagers completely crazy. (yeah I know but kde is a shorten way of QT, plasma, frameworks, Applications packagers :-) If 42.2 is going for LTS packages, then I suppose we will see more people wanting to stay stable really going to stay stable and keep oss and perhaps just a bit of kde:extra. Your management process then for Applications and Frameworks should be easier no ? Or in 6-8 months the same corner case situation will emerge. For the others, TW is still a good choice, if we can accelerate a bit the queue :-) My wife on Leap + KDE repo has a more newer stack of software than me on TW :-o -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Raymond Wooninck

20:08

Hi Bruno, On Thursday, 25 August 2016 17:19:41 CEST Bruno Friedmann wrote:

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A big big thanks for the explanations. Which put lights on some important points about Leap 42.1.

Good to hear :)

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If 42.2 is going for LTS packages, then I suppose we will see more people wanting to stay stable really going to stay stable and keep oss and perhaps just a bit of kde:extra.

That was at least the goal. The team could provide maintenance updates for mainly bugfixes and newer Applications. If this is going to work in practice has to been seen :) Plasma 5.8 is the first LTS release, that will depend on the Qt 5.6.x LTS release. But the question would be what would happen to Frameworks, as that this sits between Qt and Plasma. The promise is that Frameworks will remain backwards compatible, so it shouldn't be hard to drop a newer Frameworks release into 42.2, without the need to update Plasma. Applications are not really relying on Plasma, but more on Frameworks so hopefully this would lead to a stable desktop experience with still newer Application versions.

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Your management process then for Applications and Frameworks should be easier no ?

Hopefully this would be the case. But as said it has to be seen in practice.

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For the others, TW is still a good choice, if we can accelerate a bit the queue :-) My wife on Leap + KDE repo has a more newer stack of software than me on TW :-o

:) It all depends on the legal review of three newer KDEPIM libraries. Due to changes in Frameworks, the factory maintainers had to put both the Frameworks and Application updates in a single staging area. However the main issue for this staging area is the legal review :( Lets hope that this will be done soon. Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Bauer

6 Oct 6 Oct

17:52

FYI: Not *exactly* what I proposed, but we do have a KDE_Frameworks5_LTS_openSUSE_Leap_42.1 repo for KDE:Applications now that does provide the latest versions (16.08.1 currently) of all packages including kdepim: http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Applications/KDE_Frameworks5_... This is built against KDE:Frameworks5:LTS (which didn't exist yet back then when I started this thread) and KDE:Qt56, which contain the latest stable Qt5 5.6.x, Plasma5 5.8.x, and Frameworks5 5.26.x LTS versions. URLs for those two repos (for 42.1): http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Qt56/openSUSE_Leap_42.1/ http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Frameworks5:/LTS/KDE_Qt56_ope... You should not use them together with KDE:Frameworks5 and KDE:Qt5 obviously, so you won't be able to upgrade to Plasma 5.9 when it comes out (but you will get all 5.8.x updates of course and also Qt 5.6.x, which should last for the next 18 months). I think that's a good compromise, at least until they start to require Qt 5.7... ;-) (but then, Leap 42.1's life-time is limited anyway, and as Qt 5.6 is LTS, that hopefully won't happen too soon) Kind Regards, Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

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Bruno Friedmann
Cor Blom
Raymond Wooninck
Thomas Leineweber
Wolfgang Bauer

[opensuse-kde] Should we start building KDE:Applications against KDE:Frameworks5 for Leap 42.1?

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