Tirsdag den 10. januar 2012 13:13:04 Will Stephenson skrev:

It's easy to point back to the good old days where SUSE invested resources from other teams (YaST->updater, Mobile Devices->KNetworkManager) in desktop- specific tools, but we can't wind back the clock, so we need to work with what we have, and fixing Apper/pk-zypp is the cheapest way to do so.

The amount of work in a NIH applet wrapped around libzypp with equivalent functionality to what we have now is significant to start up, and to maintain - ask the YaST team.

Even for a real simple one like SuSEwatcher in the good old days, which simply notified about updates and then launched YOU to do the actual installation etc.? Seems to me that you and Duncan and probably others have spent a significant amount of time trying to fix PackageKit stuff. And odds are the minute it starts to work fairly smooth, RH will decide to rewrite/redesign PackageKit completely and put us right back to square one. Of course I'm not an expert, but I'd think with the developer time invested in debugging and fixing the PackageKit stack (with moderate success), it would be possible to write an update notifier plasmoid/systray thing which could launch YOU. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, 2012-01-10 at 17:55 +0100, Yamaban wrote:

On Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:29, Martin Schlander wrote:

...

Tirsdag den 10. januar 2012 13:13:04 Will Stephenson skrev:

...

It's easy to point back to the good old days where SUSE invested resources from other teams (YaST->updater, Mobile Devices->KNetworkManager) in desktop- specific tools, but we can't wind back the clock, so we need to work with what we have, and fixing Apper/pk-zypp is the cheapest way to do so.

The amount of work in a NIH applet wrapped around libzypp with equivalent functionality to what we have now is significant to start up, and to maintain - ask the YaST team.

Even for a real simple one like SuSEwatcher in the good old days, which simply notified about updates and then launched YOU to do the actual installation etc.?

Seems to me that you and Duncan and probably others have spent a significant amount of time trying to fix PackageKit stuff. And odds are the minute it starts to work fairly smooth, RH will decide to rewrite/redesign PackageKit completely and put us right back to square one.

Of course I'm not an expert, but I'd think with the developer time invested in debugging and fixing the PackageKit stack (with moderate success), it would be possible to write an update notifier plasmoid/systray thing which could launch YOU.

Please, to quote a earlier mail: "no plasma!". The use of systray has the additional bonus of working also in gnome with no additional work, as long the program adheres to the freedesktop.org standards for systray.

Also works on xfce, fvwm, wm, lxde, etc.

One tool for all. Less work for all. Shiny is nice, but full function first. SuSEwatcher did this in his time.

To bring "back" a pure SUSE tool has the "payload"/responsibility to be the ones who maintain it, sure. But, see above, RH "owns" PK.

On one hand YaST is lauded as the holy grail in system and software management, on the other it's circumvented especially for the updates!

No, for the users this makes no sense at all, for them/us this reeks of politics. Not quality, not added value.

Agreed in all areas. We don't need fancy, we need consistently functional. Having something that is broken all the time makes us look bad. I don't understand the issue with using the YaST updater, I find it works just fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 6:36 AM, Malvern Star wrote:

Consistently functional, when it comes to udpates, should be *the* single overriding concern. If your updater is broken, users can't apply the updates necessary to fix it when you do actually release them!

The YaST updater is good and reliable, no question. The only minor issue I have with it from a user perspective is that when software stack updates come out, it *looks* like no updates are selected, when of course only the software stack update is selected. This may cause the user to start selecting the unticked updates, thinking they have not been automatically selected by accident (I know because not only have I done this myself once, but some of my users have as well). Attempting to apply this update, with the software stack and all the other updates manually selected caused some rather broken behaviour and I ended up having to re-install the system as I recall.

But other than that, yes, the YaST updater has always been my first preference.

The question is who is going to maintain it. It is a lot easier to maintain a single compatibility back-end than an entire GUI programs, or more likely multiple GUI programs since Gnome users are not going to want to pull in a lot of KDE just to do an update. The original maintainers are not willing to do it anymore, and I would rather not add even more work to the KDE team who already has enough on their plate. -Todd -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Dnia środa, 11 stycznia 2012 o 12:18:40 Kim Leyendecker napisał(a):

Btw, i still ask myself why we don't provide a script that manages the update procedure?

It could be that easy:

#! /bin/bash

su zypper dup

What Do you think? Missed i something?

Missed an opportunity for the operator to review the updates that are going to be applied. IMHO, Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org