[opensuse-kde] Availability KDE Application releases (specifically for openSUSE 13.2 users)
Dear openSUSE KDE User, As indicated some time ago, the initial decision was not to release the KDE Application releases as of version 15.04 for any openSUSE target except Tumbleweed. KDE Applications 15.04 would made available for Tumbleweed users together with the switch of the default KDE desktop to Plasma 5. Based on this initial message we got some requests to make these releases also available for openSUSE 13.2 users as that they also already have the necessary KDE Frameworks and Plasma 5 releases through the update repositories. The team discussed the topic again and I can now announce that we will start building the Frameworks based applications also for openSUSE 13.2. What does this mean concretely ? Newer packages that will be build against KDE Frameworks, will not have a different package name. e.g. Kate will remain Kate. If the KDE4 based version of a package will need to remain, then this package will have a 4 as suffix. In most cases if both packages are provided, then they will conflict with eachother. e.g. installing kate4 will automatically remove kate and vice versa. The updates will be provided through two repositories 1) Official KDE Application releases will be made available through a seperate repository KDE:Applications, which is build for openSUSE 13.2 and openSUSE Factory/Tumbleweed. It is not necessary for Tumbleweed users to activate this repository as updates will come with regular Tumbleweed snapshots. The link for this repo for openSUSE 13.2 is http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Applications/openSUSE_13.2/ 2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed. What should you be aware off ? The environment where Frameworks based applications are running inside a KDE4 desktop is untested. Also upstream is only testing how KDE4 based applications are behaving inside a Plasma 5 desktop. Although we are not expecting issues, one can never be sure. If it becomes clear that this is causing an unstable desktop for openSUSE 13.2 users, then we would revert the changes for openSUSE 13.2 and remain there with pure KDE4 applications. Regards openSUSE KDE community team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Il 19/04/2015 20:48, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed. Bad. So I need to remove Extra repo to keep 4 apps ? It's a pain. Why not an "Extra5" repo ?
Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 09:37:18 PM Daniele wrote:
Il 19/04/2015 20:48, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed. Bad. So I need to remove Extra repo to keep 4 apps ? It's a pain.
Why would you remove the whole Extra repo to keep 4 apps ?? Which apps are these and if you want to keep them on the current KDE4 level, then just mark them as protected in YaST. Then they will not be updated. And so far konversation is the only package that will change to Frameworks based.
Why not an "Extra5" repo ?
Sure, lets create another x number of repositories, so that the next complain is going to be that nobody knows what to get from where. Regards Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
So please correct me if i'm wrong. Right now I'm using 13.2 with updates and the KDE:Extra repo... are you really saying that I have to look at every single application that I have installed on two computers, and check if it's from KDE:Extra, and if so, versionlock it? Are you really serious about that? I don't think that is a really well-thought out plan. I would rather actually *use* my computer. Please do not make that happen for 13.2... Tumbleweed, ok. Next release,ok... but *please* don't make that kind of drastic change for an already established release. Just imagine having to do that for a whole network of workstations... Cheers MH Am 19.04.2015 um 21:49 schrieb Raymond Wooninck:
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 09:37:18 PM Daniele wrote:
Il 19/04/2015 20:48, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed. Bad. So I need to remove Extra repo to keep 4 apps ? It's a pain.
Why would you remove the whole Extra repo to keep 4 apps ?? Which apps are these and if you want to keep them on the current KDE4 level, then just mark them as protected in YaST. Then they will not be updated.
And so far konversation is the only package that will change to Frameworks based.
Why not an "Extra5" repo ? Sure, lets create another x number of repositories, so that the next complain is going to be that nobody knows what to get from where.
Regards
Raymond
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Great idea. I just added the repo. Thanks for your hard work.
On Sun, Apr 19, 2015 at 12:49 PM, Raymond Wooninck
On Sunday, April 19, 2015 09:37:18 PM Daniele wrote:
Il 19/04/2015 20:48, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed. Bad. So I need to remove Extra repo to keep 4 apps ? It's a pain.
Why would you remove the whole Extra repo to keep 4 apps ?? Which apps are these and if you want to keep them on the current KDE4 level, then just mark them as protected in YaST. Then they will not be updated.
And so far konversation is the only package that will change to Frameworks based.
Why not an "Extra5" repo ?
Sure, lets create another x number of repositories, so that the next complain is going to be that nobody knows what to get from where.
Regards
Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data domenica 19 aprile 2015 21:37:18, Daniele ha scritto:
Bad. So I need to remove Extra repo to keep 4 apps ? It's a pain. Why not an "Extra5" repo ?
You can add version locks to prevent them from getting updated, as Raymond already pointed out. The only KF5 apps that will be there are the ones that upstream has already released, for the record. Next time, a little more constructive criticism than "Bad" would be appreciated. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
On 04/19/2015 08:48 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:
Dear openSUSE KDE User,
... I quote stakanov about stability... :-) :-) :-) "I really do not understand why you choose this. This is against all past politics for the stable versions. So my opinion is: think about it. Please don't mix. The stable version must stay stable. If people are risk liking they have Tubleweed. If not, why we have Tubleweed then? If people want to try 13.2 with separate repos with untested software on production machines, go ahead. But stable must be stable" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 06:29:28 PM yahoo-pier_andreit wrote:
On 04/19/2015 08:48 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote: I quote stakanov about stability... :-) :-) :-)
And who is talking about instability ?? KDE:Extra contains released software, so I do not see the issue regarding stability.
"I really do not understand why you choose this. This is against all past politics for the stable versions.
Excuse me ?? KDE:Extra contains only stable and released versions. We always followed this guideline and will always do in the future. But I can not influence what upstream is going to do. If you use program X, which is now based on kdelibs4 then you consider it stable. Now upstream releases a new version of this program, but it is based on KDE Frameworks. Does this directly mean that the program has become unstable ?? If yes, based on what ? Do you actually know and understand what KDE Frameworks actually stands for ?? Raymond -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On 04/22/2015 08:13 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote:
On Wednesday, April 22, 2015 06:29:28 PM yahoo-pier_andreit wrote:
On 04/19/2015 08:48 PM, Raymond Wooninck wrote: I quote stakanov about stability... :-) :-) :-)
And who is talking about instability ?? KDE:Extra contains released software, so I do not see the issue regarding stability.
I'm not an expert but reading this in the first email: "What should you be aware off ? The environment where Frameworks based applications are running inside a KDE4 desktop is untested. Also upstream is only testing how KDE4 based applications are behaving inside a Plasma 5 desktop. Although we are not expecting issues, one can never be sure. If it becomes clear that this is causing an unstable desktop for openSUSE 13.2 users, then we would revert the changes for openSUSE 13.2 and remain there with pure KDE4 applications. " many things are untested so I supposed that untested things can generate instability.. :-) :-)
"I really do not understand why you choose this. This is against all past politics for the stable versions.
Excuse me ?? KDE:Extra contains only stable and released versions. We always followed this guideline and will always do in the future.
very good to know.. :-)
But I can not influence what upstream is going to do. If you use program X, which is now based on kdelibs4 then you consider it stable. Now upstream releases a new version of this program, but it is based on KDE Frameworks. Does this directly mean that the program has become unstable ?? If yes, based on what ? Do you actually know and understand what KDE Frameworks actually stands for ??
no, I don't know, I only know that untested things cannot be considered stable, so, if I consider that both program x and KDE frameworks are untested the risk is higher than if only program x is untested, so may be I prefere to not upgrade to new version where the risk is higher
Raymond
pier :-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Raymond, I have couple of questions about those releases... 1. When switching from extra repository to applications repository, is it possible (with yast or zypper) to find all packages without install source, to see who got orphaned after repository switch? Not to leave the mix of packages from different repositories because of possible name change. 2. Could you please update the following page accordingly (or anyone else who knows exactly how it supposed to work together): https://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories If possible with some suggested priorities to get stable(ish) plasma 5 system. At the moment it is little confusing, I have a feeling that mixing all those repositories together may result in "undefined behaviour". 3. What's your impression of KMail 4.75? On Sunday 19 April 2015 20:48:57 Raymond Wooninck wrote:
Dear openSUSE KDE User,
As indicated some time ago, the initial decision was not to release the KDE Application releases as of version 15.04 for any openSUSE target except Tumbleweed. KDE Applications 15.04 would made available for Tumbleweed users together with the switch of the default KDE desktop to Plasma 5.
Based on this initial message we got some requests to make these releases also available for openSUSE 13.2 users as that they also already have the necessary KDE Frameworks and Plasma 5 releases through the update repositories.
The team discussed the topic again and I can now announce that we will start building the Frameworks based applications also for openSUSE 13.2.
What does this mean concretely ?
Newer packages that will be build against KDE Frameworks, will not have a different package name. e.g. Kate will remain Kate. If the KDE4 based version of a package will need to remain, then this package will have a 4 as suffix. In most cases if both packages are provided, then they will conflict with eachother. e.g. installing kate4 will automatically remove kate and vice versa.
The updates will be provided through two repositories
1) Official KDE Application releases will be made available through a seperate repository KDE:Applications, which is build for openSUSE 13.2 and openSUSE Factory/Tumbleweed. It is not necessary for Tumbleweed users to activate this repository as updates will come with regular Tumbleweed snapshots.
The link for this repo for openSUSE 13.2 is http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/KDE:/Applications/openSUSE_13.2/
2) Other KDE/Qt based packages (not part of KDE Applications) will be made available through the existing KDE:Extra repository. As soon as a package becomes Frameworks-based, the old kdelibs 4.x based one will be renamed with suffix 4 and then built for older openSUSE (< 13.2) releases. The newer package should only be activated for openSUSE 13.2 and Tumbleweed.
What should you be aware off ?
The environment where Frameworks based applications are running inside a KDE4 desktop is untested. Also upstream is only testing how KDE4 based applications are behaving inside a Plasma 5 desktop. Although we are not expecting issues, one can never be sure.
If it becomes clear that this is causing an unstable desktop for openSUSE 13.2 users, then we would revert the changes for openSUSE 13.2 and remain there with pure KDE4 applications.
Regards
openSUSE KDE community team
-- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data domenica 26 aprile 2015 13:51:25, Stanislav Baiduzhyi ha scritto: Hello,
3. What's your impression of KMail 4.75?
If you mean the KF5-enabled KMail, I would suggest to wait at least for the 15.08 Applications beta release. There are some outstanding issues and in particular Kolab accounts do not work properly (need a non-upstreamable patch). -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 01:51:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
1. When switching from extra repository to applications repository, is it possible (with yast or zypper) to find all packages without install source, to see who got orphaned after repository switch? Not to leave the mix of packages from different repositories because of possible name change.
First of all, there is NO switch from extra repository to applications repository. About 99% of the packages in the applications repository are originally from KDE:Distro:Factory and were part of the old KDE SC releases. So they were never in KDE:Extra. So instead of switching you should just add KDE:Applications repository for 13.2 if you want to receive the KDE Applications 15.04 release (which is kdelibs4 & frameworks based packages) Secondly the packages in Applications repository will automatically update the older existing packages and would create a mix of kdelibs4 and Frameworks based packages. So you shouldn't be left with a mix of packages from different repositories, unless you have KDE:Unstable repositories active as well.
2. Could you please update the following page accordingly (or anyone else who knows exactly how it supposed to work together): https://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories
This will happen once we have changed the default in Tumbleweed, etc. For now we are still in the process of arrange the switch to Plasma5 in Tumbleweed, creating the corresponding structure for KDE:Unstable:*, etc.
If possible with some suggested priorities to get stable(ish) plasma 5 system. At the moment it is little confusing, I have a feeling that mixing all those repositories together may result in "undefined behaviour".
Well, I don't know what "all those repositories" exactly mean in your case. for openSUSE 13.2 you should only need to add KDE:Applications and KDE:Extra to be able to install a system that contains plasma 5.
3. What's your impression of KMail 4.75?
As you have noticed, none of our repositories contains KMail 4.75 and this remain this way. The expectation is that we might see a release of the frameworks based KDEPIM with the release of KDE Applications 15.08. If that is the case, then we will see how stable it is and provide it then through KDE:Applications. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
In data domenica 26 aprile 2015 14:55:13, Raymond Wooninck ha scritto:
remain this way. The expectation is that we might see a release of the frameworks based KDEPIM with the release of KDE Applications 15.08. If that is the case, then we will see how stable it is and provide it then through
As far as I know, this is official. The new release will also contain a nice set of improvements made by Kolab Systems. However at the moment there are still too many regressions for it to be usable. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79
On Sunday 26 April 2015 14:55:13 Raymond Wooninck wrote:
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 01:51:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
1. When switching from extra repository to applications repository, is it possible (with yast or zypper) to find all packages without install source, to see who got orphaned after repository switch? Not to leave the mix of packages from different repositories because of possible name change.
First of all, there is NO switch from extra repository to applications repository. About 99% of the packages in the applications repository are originally from KDE:Distro:Factory and were part of the old KDE SC releases. So they were never in KDE:Extra. So instead of switching you should just add KDE:Applications repository for 13.2 if you want to receive the KDE Applications 15.04 release (which is kdelibs4 & frameworks based packages)
Secondly the packages in Applications repository will automatically update the older existing packages and would create a mix of kdelibs4 and Frameworks based packages. So you shouldn't be left with a mix of packages from different repositories, unless you have KDE:Unstable repositories active as well.
Well, KDE_repositories page lists KDE:Unstable:Extra in "Updated application only" section, from where I've got some ${appname}5 packages, for example konsole5, kate5, kmix5. Probably because of that I already have volatile mix of repositories on my system, so asking for advice to clean it up properly. Now KDE:Applications contains stable versions of most of those applications, without deprecating or conflicting with unstable variant. I would like to be sure that switching from KDE:Unstable:Extra repository to KDE:Applications repository I've cleaned up my system properly, that nothing has remained from the unstable repos, no libs no devel no langpacks. And I would prefer to do it without full reinstall. What would you recommend? -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 04:13:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Well, KDE_repositories page lists KDE:Unstable:Extra in "Updated application only" section, from where I've got some ${appname}5 packages, for example konsole5, kate5, kmix5. Probably because of that I already have volatile mix of repositories on my system, so asking for advice to clean it up properly. Now KDE:Applications contains stable versions of most of those applications, without deprecating or conflicting with unstable variant. I
I wonder from where you have this "fact" ?? Who says that they are not conflicting or deprecating the unstable variant ?
would like to be sure that switching from KDE:Unstable:Extra repository to KDE:Applications repository I've cleaned up my system properly, that nothing has remained from the unstable repos, no libs no devel no
Remove the KDE:Unstable:Extra repo from your installation and add the KDE:Applications repo to it. Then run a zypper dup for KDE:Applications. This should install the packages from KDE:Applications and remove the packages from KDE:Unstable:Extra. If you would have checked the spec-files , then you would have noticed that they are obsoleting the %[name}5 packages. So there is no need to conflict with the packages from KDE:Unstable:Extra as that they are going to be removed if the package is in KDE:Applications. If you run afterwards YaST Software Management, then you could easily detect those packages that are still lingering on your systems as that packages no longer provided (due to the removal of KDE:Unstable:Extra) are marked in red. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 26 April 2015 18:29:06 Raymond Wooninck wrote:
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 04:13:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote:
Well, KDE_repositories page lists KDE:Unstable:Extra in "Updated application only" section, from where I've got some ${appname}5 packages, for example konsole5, kate5, kmix5. Probably because of that I already have volatile mix of repositories on my system, so asking for advice to clean it up properly. Now KDE:Applications contains stable versions of most of those applications, without deprecating or conflicting with unstable variant. I I wonder from where you have this "fact" ?? Who says that they are not conflicting or deprecating the unstable variant ?
I actually tried myself. Turns out I have a blind spot just over the yast window, it does deprecate the similar package from unstable. Sorry for that.
would like to be sure that switching from KDE:Unstable:Extra repository to KDE:Applications repository I've cleaned up my system properly, that nothing has remained from the unstable repos, no libs no devel no
Remove the KDE:Unstable:Extra repo from your installation and add the KDE:Applications repo to it.
Then run a zypper dup for KDE:Applications. This should install the packages from KDE:Applications and remove the packages from KDE:Unstable:Extra. If you would have checked the spec-files , then you would have noticed that they are obsoleting the %[name}5 packages. So there is no need to conflict with the packages from KDE:Unstable:Extra as that they are going to be removed if the package is in KDE:Applications.
If you run afterwards YaST Software Management, then you could easily detect those packages that are still lingering on your systems as that packages no longer provided (due to the removal of KDE:Unstable:Extra) are marked in red.
Is there a way to see (or query through zypper) the full list of those unprovided packages? -- Regards, Stas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Is there a way to see (or query through zypper) the full list of those unprovided packages?
Hi Something like this: YaST Software Management -> Show "Package groups" -> Orphaned packages Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org
Dne Ne 26. dubna 2015 21:17:01, Stanislav Baiduzhyi napsal(a):
On Sunday 26 April 2015 18:29:06 Raymond Wooninck wrote:
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 04:13:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote: If you run afterwards YaST Software Management, then you could easily detect those packages that are still lingering on your systems as that packages no longer provided (due to the removal of KDE:Unstable:Extra) are marked in red.
Is there a way to see (or query through zypper) the full list of those unprovided packages?
Non-zypper possibility is to use rpmorphan (from command line). -- Vojtěch Zeisek Komunita openSUSE GNU/Linuxu Community of the openSUSE GNU/Linux http://www.opensuse.org/ http://trapa.cz/
On Monday 27 April 2015 13.38:22 Vojtěch Zeisek wrote:
Dne Ne 26. dubna 2015 21:17:01, Stanislav Baiduzhyi napsal(a):
On Sunday 26 April 2015 18:29:06 Raymond Wooninck wrote:
On Sunday, April 26, 2015 04:13:25 PM Stanislav Baiduzhyi wrote: If you run afterwards YaST Software Management, then you could easily detect those packages that are still lingering on your systems as that packages no longer provided (due to the removal of KDE:Unstable:Extra) are marked in red.
Is there a way to see (or query through zypper) the full list of those unprovided packages?
Non-zypper possibility is to use rpmorphan (from command line).
You can retrieve them with zypper + grep zypper se -si | grep -i "(System Packages)" ;-) -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Board, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot
participants (11)
-
Bruno Friedmann -
Cor Blom -
Daniele -
Luca Beltrame -
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti -
Mathias Homann -
Raymond Wooninck -
Sam M. -
Stanislav Baiduzhyi -
Vojtěch Zeisek -
yahoo-pier_andreit