On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:

On 10/13/2011 03:38 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Hi,

 I'd like to draw the attention to bug 718367, in case it is still the case of shipping Akonadi to be configured to SQLite by default, please reconsider the decision. This will provide sub-optimal performance and in certain cases buggy behavior (hangs) for Akonadi based applications, including KMail2.

Andras

There is another consideration. There is *no* GUI support for selecting sqlite (is that still true)? Therefore, if somebody uses the GUI to try to change to mysql / postgresql and decides to change back, they can't change back to sqlite without editing files. -- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Thursday 13 Oct 2011 18:09:55 Andras Mantia wrote:

Jon Nelson wrote:

...

On Thu, Oct 13, 2011 at 9:44 AM, Bruno Friedmann

wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 03:38 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Hi,

I'd like to draw the attention to bug 718367, in case it is still the case of shipping Akonadi to be configured to SQLite by default, please reconsider the decision. This will provide sub-optimal performance and in certain cases buggy behavior (hangs) for Akonadi based applications, including KMail2.

Andras

There is another consideration. There is *no* GUI support for selecting sqlite (is that still true)? Therefore, if somebody uses the GUI to try to change to mysql / postgresql and decides to change back, they can't change back to sqlite without editing files.

True, as it was not working at the time (and I can argue that it is still not working correctly). I can fix this, although I'd rather not.

(Update, as the original mail went only to Jon): I can be convinced to enable the selection though if opensuse switches back to mysql by default.

:) That way NFS users would have an easier way to change it.

+1 We also need to fix the bug that on migration if the Local Folders migration fails, the local maildir resource has an empty path. This results in KMail asserting on startup as it could not load the SpecialCollections provided by this resource. Cartman noticed that for some unknown reason with SQLite this does not happen. Will -- Will Stephenson, openSUSE Team SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Jeff Hawn, Jennifer Guild, Felix Imendörffer, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/13/2011 05:11 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 03:38 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Hi,

I'd like to draw the attention to bug 718367, in case it is still the case of shipping Akonadi to be configured to SQLite by default, please reconsider the decision. This will provide sub-optimal performance and in certain cases buggy behavior (hangs) for Akonadi based applications, including KMail2.

Andras

Andras you know that the sqlite choice was also made because there's no upstream solution for the buggy mysql support on nfs home too :-)

[dream on] One unified full semantic database (that can be per user, per computer, per network) for the whole kde desktop. With a nice administrative stack to dig in it, backup, restore, migrate [/dream off]

Ok, I didn't know about the NFS problem (you refer to the unclear shutdown/broken suspend issue, right: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275261 ? ). So you need to make a choice: - use sqlite and make it a problem for everybody - use mysql and those using NFS will have a problem

Right now I'd say even postgresql would be a better choice, but I have no idea how it works on NFS.

Unfortunately, the postgresql is not a solution. If you configure it by hand to use an external database server, akonadi doesn't care and launch it's own instance. (known bug which will be resolved in 4.8 from what was said to me)

Of course there is also a solution (for distributions) to configure a system wide mysql server that puts the database outside of $HOME and Akonadi can use that one as well.

How will you manage several users in that case? Could be a solution for the livecd?

The fact is what I wrote: sqlite is buggy. I run into the mistake of using sqlite once, when I removed my akonadi config and run the opensuse akonadi instead of my self compiled one. And that was patched and used sqlite. I didn't notice for a day or so, but my number of gray hairs went up and couldn't understand why do I get so frequent hangs in KMail and the Akonadi server.

Andras

I've never consider sqlite as database engine. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

Jon Nelson wrote:

That's unfortunate - sqlite has an excellent SQL engine and is pretty reliable/durable. It's not intended to replace mysql or postgresql but for what it does, it does a very good job.

The problem with sqlite and akonadi is concurrent access to the database. Akonadi is heavily multi-threaded and accessed the database for different content at the same time. See in the same page I linked to in the other mail. Andras -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:

On 10/14/2011 04:52 PM, Jon Nelson wrote:

...

On Fri, Oct 14, 2011 at 2:08 AM, Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 05:11 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 03:38 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Hi,

 I'd like to draw the attention to bug 718367, in case it is still the case of shipping Akonadi to be configured to SQLite by default, please reconsider the decision. This will provide sub-optimal performance and in certain cases buggy behavior (hangs) for Akonadi based applications, including KMail2.

Andras

Andras you know that the sqlite choice was also made because there's no upstream solution for the buggy mysql support on nfs home too :-)

[dream on] One unified full semantic database (that can be per user, per computer, per network) for the whole kde desktop. With a nice administrative stack to dig in it, backup, restore, migrate [/dream off]

Ok, I didn't know about the NFS problem (you refer to the unclear shutdown/broken suspend issue, right: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275261 ? ). So you need to make a choice: - use sqlite and make it a problem for everybody - use mysql and those using NFS will have a problem

...

Right now I'd say even postgresql would be a better choice, but I have no idea how it works on NFS.

Unfortunately, the postgresql is not a solution. If you configure it by hand to use an external database server, akonadi doesn't care and launch it's own instance. (known bug which will be resolved in 4.8 from what was said to me)

I wouldn't really consider that a bug. It'd be nice to have the choice between "use an external postgresql server" and "launch our own postgresql instance".

John it is a bug : the choice and the interface should work exactly the same as mysql. run a private instance if I decide, run on central instance if I decide.

I agree - I thought you were suggesting something else entirely.

Now with postgresql (hopefully this is ending), if you use a private instance on an nfs home (don't do that) or you have a shared desktop, what will happen when the postgresql server change its minor version like 9.0 to 9.1 without any backups. Because the administrator of your workstation (you don't have root privs) upgrade it ?

That's a very good point!

Are we sure, that if you destroy the akonadi data you are able to restart from scratch without reconfigure those 16 imaps accounts and stuff ? And don't loose any data. Like redownloading your 32GB of mail for imapsync ... even worst as thoses file now are just pointless file their usage being lost during the remove of the database.

From a certain perspective, that is exactly why using sqlite is attractive. Furthermore, sqlite *is* safe to use in a multithreading environment: http://www.sqlite.org/threadsafe.html

-- Jon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org

On 10/14/2011 05:16 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 05:11 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Bruno Friedmann wrote:

...

On 10/13/2011 03:38 PM, Andras Mantia wrote:

...

Hi,

I'd like to draw the attention to bug 718367, in case it is still the case of shipping Akonadi to be configured to SQLite by default, please reconsider the decision. This will provide sub-optimal performance and in certain cases buggy behavior (hangs) for Akonadi based applications, including KMail2.

Andras

Andras you know that the sqlite choice was also made because there's no upstream solution for the buggy mysql support on nfs home too :-)

[dream on] One unified full semantic database (that can be per user, per computer, per network) for the whole kde desktop. With a nice administrative stack to dig in it, backup, restore, migrate [/dream off]

Ok, I didn't know about the NFS problem (you refer to the unclear shutdown/broken suspend issue, right: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=275261 ? ). So you need to make a choice: - use sqlite and make it a problem for everybody - use mysql and those using NFS will have a problem

...

Right now I'd say even postgresql would be a better choice, but I have no idea how it works on NFS.

Unfortunately, the postgresql is not a solution. If you configure it by hand to use an external database server, akonadi doesn't care and launch it's own instance. (known bug which will be resolved in 4.8 from what was said to me)

...

Of course there is also a solution (for distributions) to configure a system wide mysql server that puts the database outside of $HOME and Akonadi can use that one as well.

How will you manage several users in that case?

Unfortunately multiple users using the same database is not supported. See http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/PIM/Akonadi#Can_Akonadi_use_a_normal_MySQL_...

(generally the whole FAQ there is interesting and on topic).

Don't over look, that's exactly what I'm talking about ... how to create automatically (mean by rpm/apt install) a separate database for each user. Which is the perfect setup even on desktop with multiple user, avoid several mysql process, logs, etc. With one central database and having tables prefix like $username_akonadi_table that could be a way to do it but yeap in that case, code need to be changed.

...

Could be a solution for the livecd? Well, the live CD is not using NFS, so no need for workarounds.> Andras The sqlite choice was made due to malfunction of mysql on livecd if my memory is good. Just check this mailing list archive.

-- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch openSUSE Member & Ambassador GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde+owner@opensuse.org