[opensuse-kde3] Larger fonts in openSUSE 12.3 than openSUSE 11.3
Hi! I noticed that fonts appear larger in openSUSE 12.3 (and possibly all openSUSE 12.x) than in openSUSE 11.x, in particular for GTK and QT based applications. For example, it does not affect fonts in the konsole terminal itself (like misc-fixed) but it affects fonts in the menus. I have selected exactly the same fonts and font size in the kcontrol center (incl. those for GTK applications) as in my openSUSE 11.3 installations, but for some reason in openSUSE 12.3 most fonts appear slightly larger. Just wondering if anybody has noticed the same and knows a trick to revert to openSUSE 11.x font rendering? Thanks, Gianluca ----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-21 16:01 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I noticed that fonts appear larger in openSUSE 12.3 (and possibly all openSUSE 12.x) than in openSUSE 11.x, in particular for GTK and QT based applications. For example, it does not affect fonts in the konsole terminal itself (like misc-fixed) but it affects fonts in the menus. I have selected exactly the same fonts and font size in the kcontrol center (incl. those for GTK applications) as in my openSUSE 11.3 installations, but for some reason in openSUSE 12.3 most fonts appear slightly larger.
Just wondering if anybody has noticed the same and knows a trick to revert to openSUSE 11.x font rendering?
What display size and resolution do you use? Sounds like you've encountered a difference in desktop DPI between the old and the new. X used to be set up by SaX2 right up to around 11.3. An upgrade from something pre-11.3 may have left your 11.3 with a SaX2 configured setup. Now and for several releases it's normally set up automagically at each startup, with configuration via /etc/X11/xorg.conf* remaining an option. You can tweak DPI up or down by forcing DPI. If you choose to force it via systemsettings (KControl), be sure to either unset Xft.dpi if it is set, or cause it to match any systemsettings value you choose to force to. If you choose a value below 96 to force to, unstyled web browser text of any given nominal size is likely to be larger in browser windows, as most if not all other than Konq using KHTML (as opposed to using the WebKit option in Konq 4) either set a 96 floor (Gecko), or lock it at 96 (WebKit/Blink). DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Felix, I'm using a resolution of 1280x1024 on the openSUSE 11.3 installation. The way I compare them, I remotely open a window from the server running 12.3. I attach a screeshot here where I superimpose the window opened remotely from 12.3 (top) onto a window opened locally on 11.3 (botton); please pay attention to the menus (Session, Edit, etc.). I notice the same effect also when I work locally on the 12.3 installation (also 1280x1024). Both installations are clean (not upgrades) and sax2 is not present in 11.3 either. However, I need to say that the 11.3 installation runs with the proprietary NVIDIA driver whereas the 12.3 installation runs on an Intel video card (with the opensource driver). How can I find out what DPI I have in either installation? The xorg.conf file created by the NVIDIA installer in 11.3 does not show any DPI settings.
If you choose to force it via systemsettings (KControl), be sure to either unset Xft.dpi if it is set, or cause it to match any systemsettings value you choose to force to.
Where do I find "Xft.dpi"?
DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, right now it shows "The connection has timed out". Gianluca On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-21 16:01 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I noticed that fonts appear larger in openSUSE 12.3 (and possibly all openSUSE 12.x) than in openSUSE 11.x, in particular for GTK and QT based applications. For example, it does not affect fonts in the konsole terminal itself (like misc-fixed) but it affects fonts in the menus. I have selected exactly the same fonts and font size in the kcontrol center (incl. those for GTK applications) as in my openSUSE 11.3 installations, but for some reason in openSUSE 12.3 most fonts appear slightly larger.
Just wondering if anybody has noticed the same and knows a trick to revert to openSUSE 11.x font rendering?
What display size and resolution do you use?
Sounds like you've encountered a difference in desktop DPI between the old and the new. X used to be set up by SaX2 right up to around 11.3. An upgrade from something pre-11.3 may have left your 11.3 with a SaX2 configured setup.
Now and for several releases it's normally set up automagically at each startup, with configuration via /etc/X11/xorg.conf* remaining an option. You can tweak DPI up or down by forcing DPI.
If you choose to force it via systemsettings (KControl), be sure to either unset Xft.dpi if it is set, or cause it to match any systemsettings value you choose to force to.
If you choose a value below 96 to force to, unstyled web browser text of any given nominal size is likely to be larger in browser windows, as most if not all other than Konq using KHTML (as opposed to using the WebKit option in Konq 4) either set a 96 floor (Gecko), or lock it at 96 (WebKit/Blink).
DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org -----------------------------------------------------
I was able to find some explanations here: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Font_Configuration The Xft.dpi variable does not seem to be set in either installation. I also tried `xdpyinfo | grep dots` and for the 11.3 installation I get: resolution: 85x86 dots per inch For 12.3 I get: resolution: 96x96 dots per inch The difference is probably because the monitors have different physical dimensions. Gianluca On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
Hi Felix,
I'm using a resolution of 1280x1024 on the openSUSE 11.3 installation. The way I compare them, I remotely open a window from the server running 12.3. I attach a screeshot here where I superimpose the window opened remotely from 12.3 (top) onto a window opened locally on 11.3 (botton); please pay attention to the menus (Session, Edit, etc.). I notice the same effect also when I work locally on the 12.3 installation (also 1280x1024). Both installations are clean (not upgrades) and sax2 is not present in 11.3 either. However, I need to say that the 11.3 installation runs with the proprietary NVIDIA driver whereas the 12.3 installation runs on an Intel video card (with the opensource driver).
How can I find out what DPI I have in either installation? The xorg.conf file created by the NVIDIA installer in 11.3 does not show any DPI settings.
If you choose to force it via systemsettings (KControl), be sure to either unset Xft.dpi if it is set, or cause it to match any systemsettings value you choose to force to.
Where do I find "Xft.dpi"?
DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, right now it shows "The connection has timed out".
Gianluca
On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-21 16:01 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I noticed that fonts appear larger in openSUSE 12.3 (and possibly all openSUSE 12.x) than in openSUSE 11.x, in particular for GTK and QT based applications. For example, it does not affect fonts in the konsole terminal itself (like misc-fixed) but it affects fonts in the menus. I have selected exactly the same fonts and font size in the kcontrol center (incl. those for GTK applications) as in my openSUSE 11.3 installations, but for some reason in openSUSE 12.3 most fonts appear slightly larger.
Just wondering if anybody has noticed the same and knows a trick to revert to openSUSE 11.x font rendering?
What display size and resolution do you use?
Sounds like you've encountered a difference in desktop DPI between the old and the new. X used to be set up by SaX2 right up to around 11.3. An upgrade from something pre-11.3 may have left your 11.3 with a SaX2 configured setup.
Now and for several releases it's normally set up automagically at each startup, with configuration via /etc/X11/xorg.conf* remaining an option. You can tweak DPI up or down by forcing DPI.
If you choose to force it via systemsettings (KControl), be sure to either unset Xft.dpi if it is set, or cause it to match any systemsettings value you choose to force to.
If you choose a value below 96 to force to, unstyled web browser text of any given nominal size is likely to be larger in browser windows, as most if not all other than Konq using KHTML (as opposed to using the WebKit option in Konq 4) either set a 96 floor (Gecko), or lock it at 96 (WebKit/Blink).
DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/
Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org -----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-21 18:34 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I was able to find some explanations here:
The Xft.dpi variable does not seem to be set in either installation. I
openSUSE does not normally set it. Some distros do (e.g. Fedora, Mageia), but some applications can cause it to become set, especially if native DPI is less than 96.
also tried `xdpyinfo | grep dots` and for the 11.3 installation I get:
resolution: 85x86 dots per inch
For 12.3 I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch
Kcmshell xserver gives that info in a small window. The same info is shown in KInfoCenter.
The difference is probably because the monitors have different physical dimensions.
85/86 is 1280x1024 on 19" while 96 is 1280x1024 on 17": http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/dpi.xhtml However, the two different video drivers can behave differently as well. What do SeaMonkey, Firefox and/or Konq have to say on http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html ? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
I have another installation of 11.3 on a computer with 1600x1050 20'' monitor, resolution: 99x98 dots per inch. When I compare with the 11.3 installation on the 19'' monitor they produce fonts of exactly the same size. Both 11.3 installations run on NVIDIA with proprietary drivers. Using your link on the 11.3 installation with 1600x1050 (where I'm sitting at right now) I get 98 DPI, default font size 18px. I notice that the 1 inch box is slightly smaller than 1 inch. I am using firefox 24. (In konq it's even smaller.) Can I force a different DPI by setting Xft.dpi in .xsession? Gianluca On Thu, 21 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-21 18:34 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I was able to find some explanations here:
The Xft.dpi variable does not seem to be set in either installation. I
openSUSE does not normally set it. Some distros do (e.g. Fedora, Mageia), but some applications can cause it to become set, especially if native DPI is less than 96.
also tried `xdpyinfo | grep dots` and for the 11.3 installation I get:
resolution: 85x86 dots per inch
For 12.3 I get:
resolution: 96x96 dots per inch
Kcmshell xserver gives that info in a small window. The same info is shown in KInfoCenter.
The difference is probably because the monitors have different physical dimensions.
85/86 is 1280x1024 on 19" while 96 is 1280x1024 on 17":
http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/dpi.xhtml
However, the two different video drivers can behave differently as well.
What do SeaMonkey, Firefox and/or Konq have to say on
http://fm.no-ip.com/Auth/dpi-screen-window.html ? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-21 22:50 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I have another installation of 11.3 on a computer with 1600x1050 20'' monitor, resolution: 99x98 dots per inch. When I compare with the 11.3 installation on the 19'' monitor they produce fonts of exactly the same size. Both 11.3 installations run on NVIDIA with proprietary drivers.
Using your link on the 11.3 installation with 1600x1050 (where I'm sitting at right now) I get 98 DPI, default font size 18px. I notice that the 1 inch box is slightly smaller than 1 inch. I am using firefox 24. (In konq it's even smaller.)
Is your Konq by any chance using WebKit instead of KHTML? Some people running KDE3 use Konq4 because it isn't so far behind in implementing the newest web standards.
Can I force a different DPI by setting Xft.dpi in .xsession?
Not every app recognizes the impact of Xft.dpi, one reason I never use it to force, and am not familiar with all places it might be validly set. Fedora and Mageia put it in /etc/X11/Xresources. I always use DisplaySize to set it, using http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/DisplaySize to select appropriate values. Those using xorg.conf for proprietary nvidia drivers (which I never do) can just set the desired dpi numbers directly, e.g. 'Option "DPI" "100 x 100"'. Note that most scalable fonts are tuned to behave best at precisely 96, but seem just as good at any multiple of 24, with other multiples of 12 not far behind. Probably most people can't tell them apart, but random DPI values not a multiple of at least 4 can produce rather puzzling and undesired increments and decrements in adjacent sizes. If using a 98 DPI display and forcing, I'd set 96 for optimal fonts, but 100 for slightly bigger sizing, or 108 for better bigger sizing, all only if precise physical to logical DPI accuracy (1:1) is not highly desired. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-21 22:50 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I have another installation of 11.3 on a computer with 1600x1050 20'' monitor, resolution: 99x98 dots per inch. When I compare with the 11.3 installation on the 19'' monitor they produce fonts of exactly the same size. Both 11.3 installations run on NVIDIA with proprietary drivers.
Using your link on the 11.3 installation with 1600x1050 (where I'm sitting at right now) I get 98 DPI, default font size 18px. I notice that the 1 inch box is slightly smaller than 1 inch. I am using firefox 24. (In konq it's even smaller.)
Is your Konq by any chance using WebKit instead of KHTML? Some people running KDE3 use Konq4 because it isn't so far behind in implementing the newest web standards.
Can I force a different DPI by setting Xft.dpi in .xsession?
Not every app recognizes the impact of Xft.dpi, one reason I never use it to force, and am not familiar with all places it might be validly set. Fedora and Mageia put it in /etc/X11/Xresources.
I always use DisplaySize to set it, using http://fm.no-ip.com/Share/DisplaySize to select appropriate values. Those using xorg.conf for proprietary nvidia drivers (which I never do) can just set the desired dpi numbers directly, e.g. 'Option "DPI" "100 x 100"'.
Where do you set "DisplaySize"? Is that in the monitor section of xorg.conf? I tried setting 'Option "DPI" "80 x 80"' in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-monitor.conf but it didn't have any effect on the font size. I played with different values for DPI and DisplaySize and also created a xorg.conf file but it made no difference: Section "Monitor" Identifier "Default Monitor" # # ## If your monitor doesn't support DDC you may override the # ## defaults here # #HorizSync 28-85 # #VertRefresh 50-100 # # ## Add your mode lines here, use e.g the cvt tool # # Force DisplaySize of 19 inch monitor (like in 11.3 installation) DisplaySize 382 302 EndSection I doubt though that it is related to DPI because programs like xmgrace and gv (which don't rely on Qt or GTK libraries) appear exactly the same on the 11.3 and 12.3 installations. Thus I believe that it has something to do with the Qt/GTK settings or fonts. Gianluca
Note that most scalable fonts are tuned to behave best at precisely 96, but seem just as good at any multiple of 24, with other multiples of 12 not far behind. Probably most people can't tell them apart, but random DPI values not a multiple of at least 4 can produce rather puzzling and undesired increments and decrements in adjacent sizes. If using a 98 DPI display and forcing, I'd set 96 for optimal fonts, but 100 for slightly bigger sizing, or 108 for better bigger sizing, all only if precise physical to logical DPI accuracy (1:1) is not highly desired. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-21 20:23 (GMT-0500) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
DPI and fonts generally: http://fm.no-ip.com/PC/fonts-linux-about.html
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, right now it shows "The connection has timed out".
Problem found and fixed. Took a while. Turns out my router decided to reassign port 80 to a DHCP address instead of my Apache server's fixed IP. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-21 17:23 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I attach a screeshot here where I superimpose the window opened remotely from 12.3 (top) onto a window opened locally on 11.3 (botton); please pay attention to the menus (Session, Edit, etc.).
I took another look at your image. I'm pretty sure the upper image's menu fonts are DejaVu Sans. The bottom's look like most likely Arial, maybe Liberation Sans, both of which are smaller at any given nominal size than DejaVu Sans. The S & s & a are key to telling them apart. Another slight possibility more likely on the 11.3 systems is Albany AMT from the agfa-fonts package that AFAICT hasn't been on the DVD for a while. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
Hi Felix, On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-21 17:23 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I attach a screeshot here where I superimpose the window opened remotely from 12.3 (top) onto a window opened locally on 11.3 (botton); please pay attention to the menus (Session, Edit, etc.).
I took another look at your image. I'm pretty sure the upper image's menu fonts are DejaVu Sans. The bottom's look like most likely Arial, maybe Liberation Sans, both of which are smaller at any given nominal size than DejaVu Sans. The S & s & a are key to telling them apart. Another slight possibility more likely on the 11.3 systems is Albany AMT from the agfa-fonts package that AFAICT hasn't been on the DVD for a while.
You are right, the fonts are different. But I'm puzzled. When I go to kcontrol -> Appearance & Themes -> Fonts, they are all set to "Sans Serif" (except for "Fixed width" which is set to "monospace") in both installations, 11.3 and 12.3. Is there another way to select fonts? Thanks, Gianluca
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-22 10:29 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
You are right, the fonts are different. But I'm puzzled. When I go to kcontrol -> Appearance & Themes -> Fonts, they are all set to "Sans Serif" (except for "Fixed width" which is set to "monospace") in both installations, 11.3 and 12.3. Is there another way to select fonts?
Sans Serif and monospace are aliases. In both 11.3 and 13.1 look to /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf to see the preferential order in assigning installed fonts to these aliases. I expect that Arial is installed on your system using the smaller fonts in your screenshot jpg, but not on the system using the larger fonts. Arial is higher in the list than DejaVu, so where it's available it is what Sans Serif aliases to. Note that "installed fonts" means both fonts installed in the conventional "installation" sense, and any fonts present in ~./fonts. Note that the fontconfig system needs restart for any changes in order for any changes you make in /etc/fonts to take effect. I just reboot any time I make any such changes. My systems all have Droid Sans at the top of the Sans Serif alias list. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-22 10:29 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
You are right, the fonts are different. But I'm puzzled. When I go to kcontrol -> Appearance & Themes -> Fonts, they are all set to "Sans Serif" (except for "Fixed width" which is set to "monospace") in both installations, 11.3 and 12.3. Is there another way to select fonts?
Sans Serif and monospace are aliases. In both 11.3 and 13.1 look to /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf to see the preferential order in assigning installed fonts to these aliases. I expect that Arial is installed on your system using the smaller fonts in your screenshot jpg, but not on the system using the larger fonts. Arial is higher in the list than DejaVu, so where it's available it is what Sans Serif aliases to. Note that "installed fonts" means both fonts installed in the conventional "installation" sense, and any fonts present in ~./fonts.
I see. I compared /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf in both installations. They list the same for the first four but then they differ: openSUSE 11.3: <family>sans-serif</family> <prefer> <family>Arial</family> <family>Albany AMT</family> <family>Verdana</family> <family>DejaVu Sans</family> <family>Liberation Sans</family> <family>SUSE Sans</family> <family>Bitstream Vera Sans</family> <family>Nimbus Sans L</family> openSUSE 12.3: <family>sans-serif</family> <prefer> <family>Arial</family> <family>Albany AMT</family> <family>Verdana</family> <family>DejaVu Sans</family> <family>Droid Sans</family> <family>Arimo</family> <family>Liberation Sans</family> <family>Cantarell</family> Could it be that I'm missing some fonts in 12.3? Maybe, Arial is missing. Is there a way to check it? Thanks a lot, Gianluca
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
Sans Serif and monospace are aliases. In both 11.3 and 13.1 look to /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf to see the preferential order in assigning installed fonts to these aliases. I expect that Arial is installed on your system using the smaller fonts in your screenshot jpg, but not on the system using the larger fonts. Arial is higher in the list than DejaVu, so where it's available it is what Sans Serif aliases to. Note that "installed fonts" means both fonts installed in the conventional "installation" sense, and any fonts present in ~./fonts.
I have just checked what fonts are installed on both systems. The 11.3 installation (with smaller fonts in the jpg) has "liberation-fonts-1.03-6.1.noarch" but no dejavu whereas the 12.3 installation (with larget fonts in the jpg) has "liberation-fonts-1.07.2-2.1.1.noarch" and "dejavu-fonts-2.33-6.1.1.noarch". So, it could be that 11.3 chooses liberation (since dejavu is not installed) and 12.3 chooses dejavu since it is installed. Probably, I should change the preferences in 12.3 and put "Liberation Sans" in front of "Dejavu Sans"? Gianluca
I see. I compared /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf in both installations. They list the same for the first four but then they differ:
openSUSE 11.3:
<family>sans-serif</family> <prefer> <family>Arial</family> <family>Albany AMT</family> <family>Verdana</family> <family>DejaVu Sans</family> <family>Liberation Sans</family> <family>SUSE Sans</family> <family>Bitstream Vera Sans</family> <family>Nimbus Sans L</family>
openSUSE 12.3:
<family>sans-serif</family> <prefer> <family>Arial</family> <family>Albany AMT</family> <family>Verdana</family> <family>DejaVu Sans</family> <family>Droid Sans</family> <family>Arimo</family> <family>Liberation Sans</family> <family>Cantarell</family>
Could it be that I'm missing some fonts in 12.3? Maybe, Arial is missing. Is there a way to check it?
Thanks a lot,
Gianluca
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/
Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-22 16:09 (GMT-0500) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
I have just checked what fonts are installed on both systems. The 11.3 installation (with smaller fonts in the jpg) has "liberation-fonts-1.03-6.1.noarch" but no dejavu whereas the 12.3 installation (with larget fonts in the jpg) has "liberation-fonts-1.07.2-2.1.1.noarch" and "dejavu-fonts-2.33-6.1.1.noarch". So, it could be that 11.3 chooses liberation (since dejavu is not installed) and 12.3 chooses dejavu since it is installed. Probably, I should change the preferences in 12.3 and put "Liberation Sans" in front of "Dejavu Sans"?
What you should do is very much a personal preference thing. Simplest at this point is to make a change in your KControl fonts panel. You might be happier trying other things first: 1-try installing liberation2-fonts and restarting 2-try installing fetchmsttfonts and restarting 3-making a copy of the actual /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf (not the symlink) called /etc/fonts/conf.d/57-post-user.conf, rearrange the font lists to suit your taste, and restart. Any of those can redefine the aliases according to what's actually installed and the order in the lists. If you haven't already, you might first try tweaking the anti-alias and sub-pixel hinting settings in KControl fonts. I use a 57-post-user.conf with Droids at the top of each of the 3 lists, and leave the font family choices in KControl at their generic defaults. That way no matter which login I use, the font families used are the same. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
What you should do is very much a personal preference thing. Simplest at this point is to make a change in your KControl fonts panel. You might be happier trying other things first:
1-try installing liberation2-fonts and restarting 2-try installing fetchmsttfonts and restarting 3-making a copy of the actual /etc/fonts/conf.d/58-suse-post-user.conf (not the symlink) called /etc/fonts/conf.d/57-post-user.conf, rearrange the font lists to suit your taste, and restart.
Thank you! I think that solved the problem. Since I can't reboot right now, I decided to change the fonts in Kcontrol and replace everywhere "Sans Serif" with "Liberation Sans". Now I almost can't distinguish them. The only thing slightly different is anti-aliasing. I attach a screenshot. In 12.3 (left window) text seems a bit "neater" than in 11.3 (right window). I'm using for both "Hinting style: Medium". But that bothers me much less than having Dejavu (I find Dejavu really ugly, I need to say). I guess that on a new installation, I would rather tweak 57-post-user.conf since it affects not only KDE applications but also GTK based programs (firefox, acroread, gvim, gimp, etc.). Otherwise, I would have to replace everywhere "Sans Serif" with "Liberation Sans" (in Kcontrol and also in ".gtkrc-2.0-kde"). I prefer changing it globally in 57-post-user.conf. I have another question: By playing around with the window size, I lost my graphical greeting screen in Kcontrol (see second attached jpg; left: text greeting, right: graphical greeting). Is there a way to get it back? I really appreciate your help. I'm learning a lot from this mailing list. Gianluca
Any of those can redefine the aliases according to what's actually installed and the order in the lists.
If you haven't already, you might first try tweaking the anti-alias and sub-pixel hinting settings in KControl fonts.
I use a 57-post-user.conf with Droids at the top of each of the 3 lists, and leave the font family choices in KControl at their generic defaults. That way no matter which login I use, the font families used are the same. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org -----------------------------------------------------
I have another question: By playing around with the window size, I lost my graphical greeting screen in Kcontrol (see second attached jpg; left: text greeting, right: graphical greeting). Is there a way to get it back?
Magically, it seems that the graphical greeting screen decided to re-appear. Still playing with anti-aliasing. In Kcontrol, I cannot click on "Use sub-pixel hinting". It's greyed out. Is there something that regulates anti-aliasing system wide? Gianluca
I really appreciate your help. I'm learning a lot from this mailing list.
Gianluca
Any of those can redefine the aliases according to what's actually installed and the order in the lists.
If you haven't already, you might first try tweaking the anti-alias and sub-pixel hinting settings in KControl fonts.
I use a 57-post-user.conf with Droids at the top of each of the 3 lists, and leave the font family choices in KControl at their generic defaults. That way no matter which login I use, the font families used are the same. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/
Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org -----------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-22 15:47 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
Still playing with anti-aliasing. In Kcontrol, I cannot click on "Use sub-pixel hinting". It's greyed out. Is there something that regulates anti-aliasing system wide?
I don't know what mechanism makes it available or not. Is it connected to a CRT instead of a digital panel? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-22 15:47 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
Still playing with anti-aliasing. In Kcontrol, I cannot click on "Use sub-pixel hinting". It's greyed out. Is there something that regulates anti-aliasing system wide?
I don't know what mechanism makes it available or not. Is it connected to a CRT instead of a digital panel?
Both installations are connected to digital panels. One thing I read is that 12.3 uses raster rendering vs native rendering for Qt4 applications, but this should not affect Qt3 based applications. Gianluca
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On 2013-11-22 16:23 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
Both installations are connected to digital panels.
VGA cable, or DVI, or both with adapter? -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-22 16:23 (GMT-0800) Gianluca Interlandi composed:
Both installations are connected to digital panels.
VGA cable, or DVI, or both with adapter?
Both VGA connected directly to the VGA port. But also, I am comparing them by X11 forwarding the application from the 12.3 installation to the 11.3 installation and watching them on the same screen side by side. I do not see this difference in anti-aliasing when I do the same from another 11.3 installation (also through X11 forwarding) or 11.2 installation. Both 11.3 installations have NVIDIA cards with NVIDIA proprietary drivers, whereas 11.2 has NVIDIA cards but with the nv driver. The 12.3 installation has intel video card. Gianluca
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 23 November 2013 03:20:09 Gianluca Interlandi wrote:
Thank you! I think that solved the problem. Since I can't reboot right now, I decided to change the fonts in Kcontrol and replace everywhere "Sans Serif" with "Liberation Sans". Now I almost can't distinguish them. The only thing slightly different is anti-aliasing. I attach a screenshot. In 12.3 (left window) text seems a bit "neater" than in 11.3 (right window). I'm using for both "Hinting style: Medium". But that bothers me much less than having Dejavu (I find Dejavu really ugly, I need to say).
I guess that on a new installation, I would rather tweak 57-post-user.conf since it affects not only KDE applications but also GTK based programs (firefox, acroread, gvim, gimp, etc.). Otherwise, I would have to replace everywhere "Sans Serif" with "Liberation Sans" (in Kcontrol and also in ".gtkrc-2.0-kde"). I prefer changing it globally in 57-post-user.conf.
I have another question: By playing around with the window size, I lost my graphical greeting screen in Kcontrol (see second attached jpg; left: text greeting, right: graphical greeting). Is there a way to get it back?
I really appreciate your help. I'm learning a lot from this mailing list.
Let's compare mine.
On 2013-11-23 06:23 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
Let's compare mine.
Can't without a magnifying glass. Yours are too small here for anything more than noticing something is there. Here's a look at what I have configured here: http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/sansfontsOpenSUSE131KDE3pt0910dpi144.html These are: Arial DejaVu Sans Droid Sans Liberation Sans at: slight hinting medium hinting full hinting and: 9pt 10pt all at 144 DPI, where 10pt is equal to 20px and 9pt is equal to 18px. If you view on a 96 DPI screen, sizes will be 1.5X the physical size I see here. Note with fonts these sizes, there are so many available pixels to draw with that the hinting selected makes little difference. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
On Fri, 22 Nov 2013, Felix Miata wrote:
On 2013-11-23 06:23 (GMT+0400) Ilya Chernykh composed:
Let's compare mine.
Can't without a magnifying glass. Yours are too small here for anything more than noticing something is there. Here's a look at what I have configured here:
http://fm.no-ip.com/SS/Suse/sansfontsOpenSUSE131KDE3pt0910dpi144.html
In my case, 11.3 with medium hinting (left in the attachment) has less anti-aliasing than 12.3 with slight hinting (right). I also noticed that kcontrol changed name from "Personal Settings" to "KDE Control Center". Fancy. Gianluca
These are: Arial DejaVu Sans Droid Sans Liberation Sans
at: slight hinting medium hinting full hinting
and: 9pt 10pt
all at 144 DPI, where 10pt is equal to 20px and 9pt is equal to 18px. If you view on a 96 DPI screen, sizes will be 1.5X the physical size I see here. Note with fonts these sizes, there are so many available pixels to draw with that the hinting selected makes little difference. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)
Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!
Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org -----------------------------------------------------
Let's compare mine.
Now I'm curious, where is that control center from? Is it 13.1 or TDE? Gianluca ----------------------------------------------------- Gianluca Interlandi, PhD gianluca@u.washington.edu +1 (206) 685 4435 http://artemide.bioeng.washington.edu/ Research Scientist at the Department of Bioengineering at the University of Washington, Seattle WA U.S.A. http://healthynaturalbaby.org ----------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+owner@opensuse.org
participants (3)
-
Felix Miata -
Gianluca Interlandi -
Ilya Chernykh