On Tuesday 31 August 2010 20:29:36 Kyrill Detinov wrote:

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Beagle in particular is essential for finding topics in KDE help system.

Since Beagle is a mono app, and I taboo all mono apps(especially Beagle), so I don't really think it should be a dependency on kde3. What was the actual search engine for kde3 before?  Isn't that good enough?

We don't need Beagle. We have Recoll (recoll-qt3).

Do you know how to befriend Recoll with KDE3 help system? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 31 August 2010 19:55:02 Larry Stotler wrote:

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- It seems that some packages were disabled for Factory. Namely, kdemultimedia3 and anything related to Beagle. Please tell me the actual reason or the disabling. I can add to KDE:KDE3 repository any libraries needed for the build. For example, I can restore kdemultimedi3. Or are there any other reasons for the disabling?

I think kdemultimedia3 was broken since it conflicted with the kde4 version. 11.0 uses the kde4 version of networkmanager as an example.

No. The reason it was not building for Factory. But I can restore it. It is not dropped for 11.3 and I know no issues with KDE4 compatibility. I wonder why it was building well for 11.3 and not for Factory with the same build-dependencies.

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Beagle in particular is essential for finding topics in KDE help system.

Since Beagle is a mono app, and I taboo all mono apps(especially Beagle), so I don't really think it should be a dependency on kde3. What was the actual search engine for kde3 before? Isn't that good enough?

I don't know :-( But without Beagle you cannot search topics in the help.

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- I am planning to add some soft dependencies to some basic KDE packages to improve user's experience. For example, it would be good in my view if kdebase3-workplace recommended kde3-knemo and desktoptext-config. Also some plugins may be recommended. Please tell me if this is against OpenSUSE packaging policy.

So long as it isn't a required depenency please(I think that's what you are saying).

Yes, of course.

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- I have long-range plans to include Qt3-based versions of Yast2, VirtualBox and Firefox. If somebody has experience in compiling Firefox for Qt3, any help welcome.

There was a qt port for firefox. Looked like it was Qt4 tho.

There was a Qt3 one also. But it is difficult to package for me (although I found a config file with settings for Qt3 build).

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- OpenSUSE maintainers, what's your opinion about possibility to include KDE3 option to OpenSUSE? The basic part of KDE3 (including kicker, konq, ksysguard, kcontrol) is already included (to be precise, it was never removed from OpenSUSE), but the ability to logon on KDE3 is disabled. The status of KDE3 repository has improved considerably in recent times, so it may look reasonable to reconsider KDE3's status. To enable a user to install KDE3 on his system we need to include only a tiny package kdebase3-session which takes only 4 kb, this package includes the .desktop file for the session manager so the user could choose KDE3 on the logon screen.

Back in 11.0, there were issues with KDE4 and KDE3 using the same files. That may now be the problem as well.

Please report any such problems if you encounter ones.

Also, while it will probably be ok to be an unofficial port, all KDE development has went to 4.x, so I dunno how that will work. I'm in favor of it, but we will have to be careful of problems if both are installed.

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- Some KDE3 packages (koffice, pdfedit) currently experience problems with building for Factory 32-bit architecture. This is not a KDE3 bug, but an issue of brocken zlib in Factory, it was also observed on other distributions. I have reported a bugreport: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=634995

What about 64 bit?

64 bit is OK.

Thanx for the work. Looking forward to installing 11.3/KDE3 later today.

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On Tuesday 31 August 2010 20:58:36 Lubos Lunak wrote:

First of all, you are mistaken. The KDE3 desktop is not included, the kdebase3-workspace package is built, since it is built from the same source package like kdebase3-runtime, but the resulting binaries are not shipped. So the kdebase3-session question is void.

My bad, I thought kdebase3-workplace was included.

Second, adding more of KDE3 to the openSUSE distribution is out of question as long as it is not maintained, and by that I mean the real meaning of the word that includes security fixes and so on, not the mistaken it-builds-so-it-is-fine meaning.

Are there any open security bugs in KDE3? If KDE3 was good enough for 11.0 and there no new problems appeared, why it is not good enough for 11.4?

Unless Trinity really takes off, KDE3 is not going to make it.

I have yesterday contacted with Timothy Pearson. He asked if there volunteers to package Trinity for OpenSUSE. But I think their project is far behind of us. Just notice that kdebase3 has 241 patches in OpenSUSE, and Timothy still has to include all these patches into his branch (as it is based on the vanilla KDE3 release). -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 8:31 PM, Larry Stotler wrote:

On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 12:58 PM, Mark Goldstein wrote:

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I have a question: why is it important to eliminate Qt4?

Because of the same problem with using Qt3 libs in KDE4.  Overhead.  A fully clean Qt3 port is preferable in my opinion.  Qt4 may have become leaner than Qt3 in some ways, but KDE4 is bloated.  While there may be some advantages to adding some newer stuff that's in Qt4, how do we limit what we include?  Also, doesn't that create a higher chance of breaking things?

I agree there might be potential for conflicts. That's why I was reluctant to install Qt4 application. But eventually I did and as I wrote there were no problems. If I remember correctly, Will Stephenson mentioned in some post that ...3 and ...4 parts are separated quite well, and he knows what he's talking about. I guess, the resources are limited. My gut feeling is that this is low priority stuff. ("It works, don't touch it") Regards, -- Mark Goldstein -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 31 August 2010 20:58:44 Mark Goldstein wrote:

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- I have long-range plans to include Qt3-based versions of Yast2, VirtualBox and Firefox. If somebody has experience in compiling Firefox for Qt3, any help welcome.

I have a question: why is it important to eliminate Qt4?

First of all some people install KDE3 on laptops/netbooks and they really care about space. Second, Qt4 applications look different, use different styles and other systemwide settings such as fonts (these should be set up separately outside KDE3), file associations, and also different icon sets.

I'm asking since I was using (and am using now) Qt4 applications in KDE3.5 and they live together nicely. At the beginning I was afraid to add Qt4 and some of it's development files to 11.0/KDE3.5. I wanted to use calibre, that requires very advanced version of Qt4. Eventually someone provide the rpms on build service and I decided to try. I used it for more than 0.5 year and had no problems (always updated and so on). Later I installed it on 11.1/KDE3.5 and also had no problems. 11.1 mixes kde4 components into kde3,

Now it does not if you use KDE3 repository.

but I'm not a purist: if it works, let it be so.

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On Wednesday 01 September 2010 14:23:55 Will Stephenson wrote:

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- It seems that some packages were disabled for Factory. Namely, kdemultimedia3 and anything related to Beagle. Please tell me the actual reason or the disabling. I can add to KDE:KDE3 repository any libraries needed for the build. For example, I can restore kdemultimedi3. Or are there any other reasons for the disabling? Beagle in particular is essential for finding topics in KDE help system.

Beagle is gone from 11.3 as already stated. Use Recoll, Strigi or Tracker. The integration points with khelpcenter are only scripts so it should not be too much work.

In that case it is too difficult for me. Would be nice if someone could take a look at those scripts.

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- I am planning to add some soft dependencies to some basic KDE packages to improve user's experience. For example, it would be good in my view if kdebase3-workplace recommended kde3-knemo and desktoptext-config. Also some plugins may be recommended. Please tell me if this is against OpenSUSE packaging policy.

The openSUSE way would be to define these extra packages in patterns in the KDE:KDE3 project and provide one click install links to these. Adding them to kdebase3-workspace is excessive - this should only contain 'upstream' recommendations - and will force users who don't want these packages but don't know how to prevent Recommends from being installed to have them.

The patterns in Yast are complete mess. You can find many KDE4 apps under KDE3 patterns and vice versa, KDE3 packages under KDE4 patterns. Also I do not know where they are defined, my bug-reports were closed as won'tfix

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- I have long-range plans to include Qt3-based versions of Yast2, VirtualBox and Firefox. If somebody has experience in compiling Firefox for Qt3, any help welcome.

I would avoid reanimating more zombies than you can handle. With the security risks I mentioned before, and the integration issues you will face with newer versions of openSUSE (HAL being removed, NetworkManager changes, k3b+wodim/cdrecord, sound systems changes, removed sax2 requires a randr tool in the user session, and so on) you are going to have your work cut out to keep up anyway.

NM is not really necessary as we have Yast. At least I do not use it.

A realistic and harmonious y to make your work widely available is to produce an openSUSE respin image as we are doing for KDE 4.5.1, using either OBS or SUSE Studio. See KDE:Medias/kde-reloaded in the OBS for an example.

Sorry I do not know how to do it.

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- Besides this one can consider including KDE:KDE3 repository in the list of community repositories along with the Education repo etc so a user could be able to install the full version of KDE3 from the community repo.

No comment - talk to opensuse-community.org about this, they maintain this list.

I meant the community repositories list in Yast. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 6:39 AM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:

The patterns in Yast are complete mess. You can find many KDE4 apps under KDE3 patterns and vice versa, KDE3 packages under KDE4 patterns.

This has been a problem since 11.0. As an example, KDE4 games were installed in KDE3.

Also I do not know where they are defined, my bug-reports were closed as won'tfix

We would have to find someone to assign them to and then re-open them. I don't program, so I'm not very helpful other than testing.

NM is not really necessary as we have Yast. At least I do not use it.

NM is useful if you are using wireless. For wired, I turn it off. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 9:14 AM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:

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This has been a problem since 11.0.  As an example, KDE4 games were installed in KDE3.

Does this happen now?

Dunno. Installed 11.2 once but that didn't have a KDE3 pattern. I am going to try to install 11.3 this evening if I have time and install KDE3 from the repo and see what happens. Using the games as an example, aside from the fact that the fonts/colors/schemes were completely different(and an unwelcome change at least for me), that showed that more unneccessary Qt4 libs were being used. There were other examples, but I don't remember them now. I got to the point that I blacklisted every KDE4 part I could. When I do a search on my 11.0 system for KDE4/Qt4, I found these packages installed: libkde4 kde4-opensuse-updater kde4-filesystem libqt4 libqt4-sql libqt4-qt3support libqt4-x11 I pruned out all I could last time I re-installed. It was Much more. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Ilya Chernykh wrote:

Try to remove them.

zypper rm libkde4 Reading installed packages... The following packages are going to be upgraded: ktorrent-lang ktorrent The following package is going to be downgraded: kdelibs4-core The following NEW packages are going to be installed: libkdecore4-32bit libkde4-32bit libqt4-x11-32bit libqt4-qt3support-32bit libqt4-sql-32bit libqt4-32bit xorg-x11-libXdmcp-32bit libstrigi0-32bit libsoprano4-32bit libmng-32bit libbz2-1-32bit gmp-32bit giflib-32bit fam-32bit clucene-core-32bit libGeoIP1 GeoIP The following packages are going to be reinstalled: libqca2 kde4-opensuse-updater The following packages are going to be REMOVED: PolicyKit-kde libkde4 kdelibs4 kdebase4-runtime The following packages are going to change architecture: kdelibs4-core libqca2 kde4-opensuse-updater ktorrent The following packages are going to change vendor: kdelibs4-core ktorrent-lang ktorrent Overall download size: 16.9 M. After the operation, 13.2 M will be freed. Continue? [Y/n/p/?]: Not gonna happen. ktorrent in 11.0 is qt4 IIRC. Oh well. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 01 September 2010 14:23:55 Will Stephenson wrote:

The openSUSE way would be to define these extra packages in patterns in the KDE:KDE3 project and provide one click install links to these. Adding them to kdebase3-workspace is excessive - this should only contain 'upstream' recommendations

...and I think there is no viable upstream currently... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-kde3+help@opensuse.org