anyone with a suse.com address, plz send something
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated. Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-) -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.6°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.3°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 02/10/2020 21.40, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible. There are the permanent filters that can filter on any header. But there are the visual filtering, like the "Quick filter" in Thunderbird, that can only filter on subject, sender, recipient, and body. And there is of course the human usual filter. I look at all the messages in my inbox, and by just looking at the header I decide to look inside or not. Not having the visual clue to the list breaks usability. Dozens of lists and I will not see in the inbox to which list, if any, does the post belong to. I can also confuse personal mails with lists mails. This is a huge breakage. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 21.40, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible. [snip] This is a huge breakage.
I'm not really a fan of the idea either, but not doing anything might mean a lot more breakage. Also, many other mailing lists operate like this - all Ubuntu, Launchpad, kernel and GNU lists for instance. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (14.7°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, 2020-10-04 at 11:15 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 21.40, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible. [snip] This is a huge breakage.
I'm not really a fan of the idea either, but not doing anything might mean a lot more breakage. Also, many other mailing lists operate like this - all Ubuntu, Launchpad, kernel and GNU lists for instance.
IMO, it is preferable to break DKIM than filtering. And anyway, they can choose to not sign the subject line. I have only one list that doesn't change the subject line, the XFS mail list. Being one I can cope with it, but with dozens, I may answer often on the wrong mail list. Or take days to answer an important email because I'll not notice the list it is in. Maybe if you could skip changing the subject on those emails that are DKIM signed, it would be a compromise. Or a tool to edit the subjects inside my ISP imap folder. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from openSUSE 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iHoEARECADoWIQQZEb51mJKK1KpcU/W1MxgcbY1H1QUCX3muVhwccm9iaW4ubGlz dGFzQHRlbGVmb25pY2EubmV0AAoJELUzGBxtjUfVPdkAnAk8fnVXUd94iE6A8oae n0JjEf3DAKCO7zb4DLM6T6seubaOy89UzCgCew== =XzKN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Carlos E. R. wrote:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On Sunday, 2020-10-04 at 11:15 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 21.40, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 02/10/2020 15.13, Per Jessen wrote:
Well, just a couple of posts needed - I have removed the subject prefix and the friendly footer, I'd like to see if your posts and the DKIM signature can now be validated.
Anyone else with DKIM signed email, please also send something :-)
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible. [snip] This is a huge breakage.
I'm not really a fan of the idea either, but not doing anything might mean a lot more breakage. Also, many other mailing lists operate like this - all Ubuntu, Launchpad, kernel and GNU lists for instance.
IMO, it is preferable to break DKIM than filtering.
Unfortunately, it can lead to rejection of email - depending on the policy of the sending domain.
Maybe if you could skip changing the subject on those emails that are DKIM signed, it would be a compromise.
Not possible, mlmmj is not so advanced.
Or a tool to edit the subjects inside my ISP imap folder.
Huh? not sure what you mean? -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.5°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 04/10/2020 13.30, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Or a tool to edit the subjects inside my ISP imap folder.
Huh? not sure what you mean?
A filter working on my imap folder at my ISP that edit the subject line of the emails adding the "[]" section so that filters work. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 04/10/2020 13.30, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Or a tool to edit the subjects inside my ISP imap folder.
Huh? not sure what you mean?
A filter working on my imap folder at my ISP that edit the subject line of the emails adding the "[]" section so that filters work.
I think that would be possible with the sieve editheader extension. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (12.8°C) Member, openSUSE Heroes
On 05/10/2020 20.09, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 04/10/2020 13.30, Per Jessen wrote:
Carlos E. R. wrote:
Or a tool to edit the subjects inside my ISP imap folder.
Huh? not sure what you mean?
A filter working on my imap folder at my ISP that edit the subject line of the emails adding the "[]" section so that filters work.
I think that would be possible with the sieve editheader extension.
That runs at the server, I have no access AFAIK. I was thinking software that would: pull the message from server. edit it. save it back to server. If "edit it" is not possible, then: save message to local mbox folder edit mbox file push message back to imap folder. I have managed to do this with Alpine and jstar or mcedit. Takes minutes to handle a single message, it is a manual process. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Hello, On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible.
There are the permanent filters that can filter on any header.
But there are the visual filtering, like the "Quick filter" in Thunderbird, that can only filter on subject, sender, recipient, and body.
And there is of course the human usual filter. I look at all the messages in my inbox, and by just looking at the header I decide to look inside or not. Not having the visual clue to the list breaks usability. Dozens of lists and I will not see in the inbox to which list, if any, does the post belong to. I can also confuse personal mails with lists mails.
This is a huge breakage.
Yes, but this is what we (the whole mailing list world) get with DKIM/DMARC, whose "designers" never thought about mailing lists. If the mailing list server doesn't adhere to DKIM some subscribers won't receive mail anymore as their MTAs reject them then (which they must if they adhere to DMARC and the senders policy requests rejection). There are basically only two possiblities: a) don't rewrite or remove any headers that are included in the signature (and Subject: is often included of course), and don't munge the body b) remove all traces of DKIM, but that implies that you _have_ to rewrite the From: header so that it looks like the mail originates from the mailing list server, not from the person actually sending the mail I'm on mailing lists that do either (a) or (b), and option (b) is much worse than (a): all mails come from: list@server.org and the originator is coded in the reply-to header, or in some additional x-foo: header that no mail client shows by default. Ciao, Michael.
On 05/10/2020 16.57, Michael Matz wrote:
Hello,
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020, Carlos E. R. wrote:
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
Sorry, but it is impossible.
There are the permanent filters that can filter on any header.
But there are the visual filtering, like the "Quick filter" in Thunderbird, that can only filter on subject, sender, recipient, and body.
And there is of course the human usual filter. I look at all the messages in my inbox, and by just looking at the header I decide to look inside or not. Not having the visual clue to the list breaks usability. Dozens of lists and I will not see in the inbox to which list, if any, does the post belong to. I can also confuse personal mails with lists mails.
This is a huge breakage.
Yes, but this is what we (the whole mailing list world) get with DKIM/DMARC, whose "designers" never thought about mailing lists. If the mailing list server doesn't adhere to DKIM some subscribers won't receive mail anymore as their MTAs reject them then (which they must if they adhere to DMARC and the senders policy requests rejection). There are basically only two possiblities:
a) don't rewrite or remove any headers that are included in the signature (and Subject: is often included of course), and don't munge the body b) remove all traces of DKIM, but that implies that you _have_ to rewrite the From: header so that it looks like the mail originates from the mailing list server, not from the person actually sending the mail
I'm on mailing lists that do either (a) or (b), and option (b) is much worse than (a): all mails come from: list@server.org and the originator is coded in the reply-to header, or in some additional x-foo: header that no mail client shows by default.
It seems that (b) is happening on the test list, dkim is removed. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.1 x86_64 at Telcontar)
Per Jessen composed on 2020-10-02 21:40 (UTC+0200):
Carlos E. R. wrote:
The absence of subject prefix breaks some filtering.
Yep, I am aware - people will have to adjust their filtering.
The way I use the results of filtering, adjusting can't fix it. Kiss goodbye to another of the few remaining traditional benefits of using openSUSE. -- Evolution as taught in public schools, like religion, is based on faith, not on science. Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/
participants (4)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Michael Matz -
Per Jessen