[opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

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Vincent Untz

8 Aug 2009 8 Aug '09

21:27

Hey there, So lately, we've been pretty bad at knowing when a decision was taken and executing it. During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word? Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there? Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe? I'm pretty sure we have other examples of stuff that we just dropped. Let's try to not do this :-) Cheers, Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

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Bryen M Yunashko

8 Aug 8 Aug

21:43

On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:27 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Hey there,

So lately, we've been pretty bad at knowing when a decision was taken and executing it.

During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?

I'm not a torrent user, so I won't comment here as my opinion is worthless. :-)

...

Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there?

Honestly, I did try empathy for a while when you last brought up this question. And meant to put together a list of issues why I found it unusable, but got distracted and then went on the road for a while. I'm in favor of using Empathy for the simple reason that there is the claim it is more actively developed. But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc. So, I'm not sure Empathy is really ready for prime-time yet and probably would advocate that we engage in a rigorous testing of usability before "shocking" users in 11.2 with a complete change of interface that might lose some functionality. A definitive list of pros and cons rather than vague "it don't work" like I'm doing here would behoove us much more.

...

Also, people wanted to push gwibber to factory. Is the version in Contrib working fine on factory? Can someone submit it to G:F, I'll forward it from there. James, maybe?

I'd been using Funky's repo for Gwibber and a few months ago it stopped working and I was advised to downgrade to a previous version. I haven't used any version from Contrib yet and should do this immediately to see how it looks.

...

I'm pretty sure we have other examples of stuff that we just dropped. Let's try to not do this :-)

Cheers,

Vincent

-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz

21:58

Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 16:43 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :

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But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc.

Heh. Are you using a window list? If yes, the window should be blinking in the window list. Else, you might want to look at the great new wnck-urgency-monitor application: it will put an icon in the notification area when a window requires your attention. It changed my life. (I had the same issue as you have with empathy, fwiw, since I don't use a window list) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Bryen M Yunashko

22:04

On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:58 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 16:43 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :

...
But, in reality, I switched back to Pidgin after about 2 weeks because I couldn't find it usable and couldn't even tell when people were communicating with me (no flashing icon in notify tray) etc.

Heh. Are you using a window list? If yes, the window should be blinking in the window list. Else, you might want to look at the great new wnck-urgency-monitor application: it will put an icon in the notification area when a window requires your attention.

It changed my life. (I had the same issue as you have with empathy, fwiw, since I don't use a window list)

Vincent

I don't use a window list either. It's just too space-consuming on my precious tiny 24" monitor. :-) I use Window selector. But will give wnck-urgency-monitor a try. Therein lies an issue. You *have* know know of the existence of that app, whereas Pidgin didn't require it. But besides that, that was merely the most excruciatingly memorable issue. There were a few others but I don't remember them at the moment.

...

-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.

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Vincent Untz

23:51

Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 17:04 -0500, Bryen M Yunashko a écrit :

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Therein lies an issue. You *have* know know of the existence of that app, whereas Pidgin didn't require it.

Nah, it's a deliberate choice of the empathy developers. They already notify the user by setting the right hint on the window. It's just that the desktop is broken in this very specific case: the notification doesn't appear if you don't have a window list. wnck-urgency-monitor is just a quick workaround for this. To give a more detailed rationale: empathy developers don't want to have a blinking window in the window list and something in the notification area, because it'd be spammy. They try to be nice :-) (and it's indeed not just an issue with empathy, but with all apps using this hint; that's why it's more some desktop-wide brokenness) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Christian Jäger

22:40

Hi, Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:

...

During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?

I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-) Greets, Chris -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Odd-rationale

10 Aug 10 Aug

04:29

New subject: [opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Christian Jäger wrote:

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Hi,

Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:

...
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?

I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-)

Greets, Chris

Dear opensuse-gnome team, Wasn't one of the problem of including Transmission was the DHT support? According to this ticket (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222), it seems that Transmission has DHT support as a compile-time option. Does that mean if I want Transmission *with* DHT, I would have to compile it myself or get it from a non-official repository? As for Monsoon, it appears from the MonoTorrent blog that DHT support would be available as an addin, but simply disabled by default (http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2009/05/monsoon-blowing-down-barriers.html). This seems much simpler to me. However, it is quite obvious that Monsoon is not as feature rich as Transmission, or at lest not yet. I really like Monsoon because I think it was quite some potential, and that Mono technology is pretty cool! And I like Transmission because it is lightweight and was more useful features. In the end, I am not a big torrent user and I can easily live with either client, or install the client of my choice. Just my thoughts. Thanks! Cordially, Dariel Dato-on -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Charles Kerr

05:31

New subject: [opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Odd-rationale wrote:

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On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Christian Jäger wrote:

...
Hi,

Am Samstag, den 08.08.2009, 23:27 +0200 schrieb Vincent Untz:

...
During one of the last few meetings, it was decided to move to transmission, but the meeting was not well-attended. Luis, what is the end word?

...

...
I didn't attend the meeting but I sure hope it's Transmission from now on. :-)

Greets, Chris

...

Wasn't one of the problem of including Transmission was the DHT support?

According to this ticket (http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222), it seems that Transmission has DHT support as a compile-time option. Does that mean if I want Transmission *with* DHT, I would have to compile it myself or get it from a non-official repository?

As for Monsoon, it appears from the MonoTorrent blog that DHT support would be available as an addin, but simply disabled by default (http://monotorrent.blogspot.com/2009/05/monsoon-blowing-down-barriers.html). This seems much simpler to me.

If it's policy to disallow DHT, wouldn't that preclude shipping Monsoon with a "click here to enable DHT" option? On the other hand, if that option *is* allowed and desirable to the opensuse-gnome team, I can revisit #2222 and make DHT a run-time option instead of a compile-time option. After all, the entire point of #2222 was to make Transmission more useful to SUSE and Novell. Regardless, the compile-time DHT / no-DHT choice is available right now in a released, supported version of Transmission. The Monsoon blog entry says that the "addin" option for DHT is a work in progress which will be included in a "preview release". That blog entry is two an a half months old...

...

However, it is quite obvious that Monsoon is not as feature rich as Transmission, or at lest not yet.

I really like Monsoon because I think it was quite some potential, and that Mono technology is pretty cool! And I like Transmission because it is lightweight and was more useful features.

I like Monsoon too, though of course I'd like to see Transmission as the default client. A couple of months ago I did a shootout between various BitTorrent apps, including Transmission and Monsoon. Here are the results: http://pastehtml.com/view/090621g11KlBWM.html Transmission uses half the memory of Monsoon.

...

In the end, I am not a big torrent user and I can easily live with either client, or install the client of my choice.

Just my thoughts. Thanks!

Thanks, Dariel cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz

08:52

Le lundi 10 août 2009, à 00:31 -0500, Charles Kerr a écrit :

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If it's policy to disallow DHT, wouldn't that preclude shipping Monsoon with a "click here to enable DHT" option? On the other hand, if that option *is* allowed and desirable to the opensuse-gnome team, I can revisit #2222 and make DHT a run-time option instead of a compile-time option. After all, the entire point of #2222 was to make Transmission more useful to SUSE and Novell.

My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Charles Kerr

16:50

New subject: [opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Vincent Untz wrote:

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My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy.

I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14 Summary: "shipping DHT enable package is possible, but that we should ensure that we at least inform the user that the package ($BITTORRENT_CLIENT) should only be used for legal file transfer. .... If your client displayed a notice on startup it might suffice - of course, it would be much more elegant to have the distro do this so that there would be no need to change all currently available P2P clients." This is good news IMO, since it avoids the need for a separate DHT plugin and/or maintainers packaging two separate builds when one will do. I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff which generates this dialog: http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Bjørn Lie

19:02

ma., 10.08.2009 kl. 11.50 -0500, skrev Charles Kerr:

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On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 3:52 AM, Vincent Untz wrote:

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My guess (as someone who didn't follow any of this closely) is that the monsoon package wouldn't ship with the add-in by default, but adding it would be easy.

I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14

snip

...

I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff which generates this dialog: http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png

cheers, Charles

Transmission patched and submitted for review from GNOME:Factory maintainers Package submitted to GNOME:Factory (request id: 17378). Vuntz please deny this req - as I forgot to add the patch to my branch first :) I've sent a new req 17379 - that is the "one" to ok if it's found usable. Test of transmission in opensuse with patch screenshot http://bildr.no/view/465565 Charles: This was the right "switch" for configure right? %configure \ --with-gtk --enable-dht // Bjørn -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Charles Kerr

19:34

New subject: [opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

2009/8/10 Bjørn Lie :

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ma., 10.08.2009 kl. 11.50 -0500, skrev Charles Kerr:

...

...
I asked Novell's legal about the DHT issue and got a fast and helpful reply, which I've added to #2222 for posterity: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/ticket/2222#comment:14 snip I agree with Ciaran that a general popup is cleaner than one per-app. But for the short term, here's a per-app popup for Transmission: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice.diff which generates this dialog: http://imgur.com/LMF6d.png

...

I've sent a new req 17379 - that is the "one" to ok if it's found usable.

Test of transmission in opensuse with patch screenshot http://bildr.no/view/465565

Charles: This was the right "switch" for configure right?

%configure \ --with-gtk --enable-dht

Yes, that should be fine. DHT is built by default, so "--enable-dht" is unnecessary, but it doesn't hurt anything. Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz

14 Aug 14 Aug

00:51

Le lundi 10 août 2009, à 21:02 +0200, Bjørn Lie a écrit :

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Transmission patched and submitted for review from GNOME:Factory maintainers

I have some concerns with this patch: + I'm not sure the wording is the best wording possible - "Notice for first-time users" => maybe s/Notice/Note/ - s/peoples/people/ - it feels honestly a bit aggressive :/ + I wouldn't do that with a dialog. I would use the new GtkInfoBar stuff to not force people to interact with the dialog. This way you could even add a button "Learn more" opening some text in a dialog or a web page, that would be well-written (and translated). Limiting ourselves to two short sentences feels weird. + this adds a very visible string. And we'll have no translations. Is this option that important to push something like this now? (on the submission itself: you have some weird spacing in your Patch1 line, and the new requires is not needed, as far as I know :-)) Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Charles Kerr

14:17

New subject: [opensuse-gnome] Monsoon/Transmission, Pidgin/Empathy, Gwibber, etc.

On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

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I have some concerns with this patch:

I've added a revised patch to upstream ticket #2222: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice-2.diff It addresses a two of the issues you raised: (1) softening the wording a little bit (but still using the wording suggeted by legal) (2) using a GtkInfoBar instead of a GtkMessageDialog. But doesn't address the other two: (3) it's still a very visible string with no translations. (very important, IMO) (4) there's no "learn more" button, as I'm not sure what to add.

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Is this option that important to push something like this now?

Given the timeline, it would might be better to use the non-DHT version of 1.73 for 11.2, and punt all of this for the next release after that. cheers, Charles -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz

14:36

Le vendredi 14 août 2009, à 09:17 -0500, Charles Kerr a écrit :

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On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

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I have some concerns with this patch:

I've added a revised patch to upstream ticket #2222: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/attachment/ticket/2222/legal-notice-2.diff

Wow. I really love your reactiveness! Thanks!

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...
Is this option that important to push something like this now?

Given the timeline, it would might be better to use the non-DHT version of 1.73 for 11.2, and punt all of this for the next release after that.

That's my opinion too, mostly because of the new strings that won't be translated. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy

9 Aug 9 Aug

03:59

On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 23:27 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Same for pidgin & empathy. What was the decision here? Luis, I believe you were looking if the facebook plugin can work with empathy. Any luck there?

Last time I tried Empathy, it just crashed at start-up and I didn't feel like messing with it (this was also a few months ago, so I'll give it another try), but no matter whether we end up using Pidgin or Empathy, I would like to see Facebook chat built in (there's an openFATE request for Pidgin, if we switch to Empathy I'd still request it). -- Kevin "Yeaux" Dupuy openSUSE Project Member www.twitter.com/KevinDupuy -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-gnome+help@opensuse.org

James Ogley

10 Aug 10 Aug