[openFATE 307200] Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools
Feature added by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Feature #307200, revision 1 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) Feature #307200, revision 2 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools - openSUSE-11.2: Unconfirmed + openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) + reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 + reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important + openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation + Priority + Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. - net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. + Discussion: + #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) + I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs + changes. + #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) + Olaf, any comments on this? -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Olaf Kirch (okir) Feature #307200, revision 3 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? + #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) + I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even + more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- + tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems + fixed. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Feature #307200, revision 4 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems fixed. + #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-09-03 15:56:46) (reply to #3) + Spending more time on fixing net-tools seems like a waste of time. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Stephan Kulow (coolo) Feature #307200, revision 6 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems fixed. #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-09-03 15:56:46) (reply to #3) Spending more time on fixing net-tools seems like a waste of time. + #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-02-08 11:37:06) + iproute2 is already installed by default, so this feature is purely + about having the warnings in. As I don't think we want an openSUSE + specific patch, I leave this to Thorsten to decide. So far +9 votes - + the voting wasn't really a convincing argument. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) Feature #307200, revision 7 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems fixed. #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-09-03 15:56:46) (reply to #3) Spending more time on fixing net-tools seems like a waste of time. #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-02-08 11:37:06) iproute2 is already installed by default, so this feature is purely about having the warnings in. As I don't think we want an openSUSE specific patch, I leave this to Thorsten to decide. So far +9 votes - the voting wasn't really a convincing argument. + #6: Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) (2010-02-08 11:49:12) + I don't understand the problem: SUSE is using the iproute2 utilities in + all places. There should be no place left where a SUSE distribution + uses net-tools. + The standard on Unix are net-tools, not the iproute2 utilities. So why + do we need to get incompatible to the rest of the world? This would + again only unnecessary bad press for SUSE without any advantage. + What is the disadvantage or the problem of letting the situation as of + now? + So sorry, but as long as there are no very good reasons, I don't see + any reason to become incompatible to the rest of the world. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Feature #307200, revision 8 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems fixed. #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-09-03 15:56:46) (reply to #3) Spending more time on fixing net-tools seems like a waste of time. #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-02-08 11:37:06) iproute2 is already installed by default, so this feature is purely about having the warnings in. As I don't think we want an openSUSE specific patch, I leave this to Thorsten to decide. So far +9 votes - the voting wasn't really a convincing argument. #6: Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) (2010-02-08 11:49:12) I don't understand the problem: SUSE is using the iproute2 utilities in all places. There should be no place left where a SUSE distribution uses net-tools. The standard on Unix are net-tools, not the iproute2 utilities. So why do we need to get incompatible to the rest of the world? This would again only unnecessary bad press for SUSE without any advantage. What is the disadvantage or the problem of letting the situation as of now? So sorry, but as long as there are no very good reasons, I don't see any reason to become incompatible to the rest of the world. + #7: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2010-02-08 15:27:44) (reply to #6) + What Unices do is out of scope, the standard on Linux is iproute2 (ever + since its inception). It says so on novell.com's very own site. + + It's great that SUSE makes use of it — and probably has been the first + to do so consistently across the system, something you cannot say about + Redhat or Fedora — but I also have to note that there are similar large- + effect decisions, like the removal of KDE3. And it's not like there + seemed to be many complaints on Internet blogs that it was going to be + left behind in favor of KDE4. + + Of course you get bad press if you generate errors and broken systems; + PulseAudio is one of the better-known past-time churns. The proposed + change will add warnings. Not errors. Truth to be told, there were + changes made to iptables 1.4.3 that threw out recognition for some old + syntaxes and errored out at once, and while that surprised some people, + there were no real complaints by users, just observations. So I think + you are exaggerating the impact of adding warnings to net-tools. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
Feature changed by: Michael Löffler (michl19) Feature #307200, revision 9 Title: Replace ifconfig by iproute2 - add warning messages to old tools openSUSE-11.2: Rejected by Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) reject date: 2009-08-12 10:38:27 reject reason: Not for 11.2 anymore. Priority Requester: Important - openSUSE-11.3: Evaluation + openSUSE-11.3: Rejected by (michl19) + reject date: 2010-02-08 16:20:56 + reject reason: As of Thorsten's comment - if we don't use any net-tools + we don't need a warning. Priority Requester: Important Requested by: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) Description: Because Novell once again cannot be convinced, I am putting https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492665 to public vote here. net-tools (/sbin/ifconfig, /sbin/route, arp, etc.) has numerous problems, not to mention that it is not developed since April 2001 anymore. Since April 2004, iproute2 is available as a replacement for ifconfig, but users still use the old tools with the seemingly-crippled functionality. I propose printing a warning message upon invocation to try and educate users to finally use the modern tools. Discussion: #1: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:14) I suggest to do this once 11.2 is finished to see early what needs changes. #2: Andreas Jaeger (a_jaeger) (2009-08-12 10:39:33) Olaf, any comments on this? #3: Olaf Kirch (okir) (2009-08-30 20:03:54) (reply to #2) I think this is not a good idea. Rather than breaking the tools even more, and adding another out-of-tree patch, we should look at the net- tools Debian package, which reportedly has a number of the problems fixed. #4: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2009-09-03 15:56:46) (reply to #3) Spending more time on fixing net-tools seems like a waste of time. #5: Stephan Kulow (coolo) (2010-02-08 11:37:06) iproute2 is already installed by default, so this feature is purely about having the warnings in. As I don't think we want an openSUSE specific patch, I leave this to Thorsten to decide. So far +9 votes - the voting wasn't really a convincing argument. #6: Thorsten Kukuk (kukuk) (2010-02-08 11:49:12) I don't understand the problem: SUSE is using the iproute2 utilities in all places. There should be no place left where a SUSE distribution uses net-tools. The standard on Unix are net-tools, not the iproute2 utilities. So why do we need to get incompatible to the rest of the world? This would again only unnecessary bad press for SUSE without any advantage. What is the disadvantage or the problem of letting the situation as of now? So sorry, but as long as there are no very good reasons, I don't see any reason to become incompatible to the rest of the world. #7: Jan Engelhardt (jengelh) (2010-02-08 15:27:44) (reply to #6) What Unices do is out of scope, the standard on Linux is iproute2 (ever since its inception). It says so on novell.com's very own site. - It's great that SUSE makes use of it — and probably has been the first to do so consistently across the system, something you cannot say about Redhat or Fedora — but I also have to note that there are similar large- effect decisions, like the removal of KDE3. And it's not like there seemed to be many complaints on Internet blogs that it was going to be left behind in favor of KDE4. - Of course you get bad press if you generate errors and broken systems; PulseAudio is one of the better-known past-time churns. The proposed change will add warnings. Not errors. Truth to be told, there were changes made to iptables 1.4.3 that threw out recognition for some old syntaxes and errored out at once, and while that surprised some people, there were no real complaints by users, just observations. So I think you are exaggerating the impact of adding warnings to net-tools. -- openSUSE Feature: https://features.opensuse.org/307200
participants (1)
-
fate_noreply＠suse.de