Le jeudi 06 août 2009, à 19:17 -0400, Greg Freemyer a écrit :

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Hi,

I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does it?

Am I missing something?

(not saying we should remove sax2 from the distro, dvd, or whatever)

Vincent

Sax2 is not just for catastrophic x issues.

I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for sure.

And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.

In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 10:50 +0200, Mike a écrit :

On Friday 07 August 2009, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

...

I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for sure.

And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.

In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.

In a modern world, there is a place to configure it. So far I've only found a tray item that does this. When I tell it to configure it tells me that my version is greater than 1.2, and doesn't have a configuration. Huh? That's why I clicked on configure.

I would call that a bug and file it. And yep, we agree that there should be a place to configure this. I don't know the KDE tools (but I'd expect there's one for this), but there's gnome-display-properties in GNOME which does exactly this. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

What if the person is not using gnome or kde? Regards Márcio On 8/7/09, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 10:50 +0200, Mike a écrit :

...

On Friday 07 August 2009, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

...

I've used sax2 on a running x-system to enable dual monitor for sure.

And to change resolution and other tweaks as well I do believe.

In a modern X world, randr is supposed to cover those use cases.

In a modern world, there is a place to configure it. So far I've only found a tray item that does this. When I tell it to configure it tells me that my version is greater than 1.2, and doesn't have a configuration. Huh? That's why I clicked on configure.

I would call that a bug and file it.

And yep, we agree that there should be a place to configure this. I don't know the KDE tools (but I'd expect there's one for this), but there's gnome-display-properties in GNOME which does exactly this.

Vincent

-- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow a écrit :

a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be removed from the install.

please don't remove simply a so well known application. At a minimum, sax2 should be replaced by a small message saying was people need to do thanks jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2009/08/07 10:22 (GMT+0200) Stephan Kulow composed:

sax2 is on its decline, but right now I wouldn't dare to drop it from an install as people having problems with X (not just complete broken X, but a nuance) will look for it. For 11.3 I agree, it's the first thing to be removed from the install.

For me that will be a sad day. Interactive sax2 is like son of yast, something that makes SUSE SUSE and stand above other distros. I hope if this actually happens that sax2 remains as a symlink to whatever purports to replace it. -- How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver. Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow a écrit :

sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no "symlink" to do.

weel a symlink displaying exactly this :-) but how will us do when nothing is displaying? I used to run sax2-vesa and that worked alomost always jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stefan Dirsch schrieb:

On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:17:36PM +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:

...

Stephan Kulow a écrit :

...

sax2 is basically an editor for xorg.conf - problem is: Xorg doesn't want an xorg.conf anymore, but do everything dynamic in desktop tools. So there is no "symlink" to do. weel a symlink displaying exactly this :-)

but how will us do when nothing is displaying? I used to run sax2-vesa and that worked alomost always

'x11failsafe' boot param is still available (also used by failsafe boot entry). This forces X (in more detail displaymanagers, which make use of xdm init script) to use /etc/X11/xorg.conf.install as configuration. This is the config file from installation, for which we still prefer fbdev/vesa driver. Hope this helps.

I had more than one user who by experimenting with drivers, window managers and different repos completely screw up their X configuration. As stated in http://www.novell.com/communities/node/1323/how+reconfigure+your+screen+yast... the easisest way to get them out of this mess was a sax2 -a -r as root in runlevel 3. Displaymanagers' configuration tools are of no help here. Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use? Best Regards Nico

Best regards, Stefan

Public Key available ------------------------------------------------------ Stefan Dirsch (Res. & Dev.) SUSE LINUX Products GmbH Tel: 0911-740 53 0 Maxfeldstraße 5 FAX: 0911-740 53 479 D-90409 Nürnberg http://www.suse.de Germany ----------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) -----------------------------------------------------------------

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz a écrit :

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :

...

Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the right thing:

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

Vincent

well, most of the time it's *this* wich is broken :-( jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Vincent Untz a écrit :

...

well, most of the time it's *this* wich is broken :-(

Did you report bugs when this was broken for you?

no because I always use the default sax2-vesa setup :-( but let alone look at the nvidia or ati threads all the time and all the laptop not starting a graphical interface I am reported (and I was able to fix with this comand nearly each time) can you make sure X will *always* start without xorg.conf file? if so make sax2 a link to a script "simply remove xorg.cof, do you wqant me to do this for you?" it's like when the "boot actual install" was removed. "its no more necessary" was I said. then, now I have to fight each time grub have a problem. and to set a bugzilla report would me make sure I have any time/log/understanding of what happen what I usualy don't have in such situation (I'm just trying to help some body with this problem on the opensuse list: repair tools don't repair boot) jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 18:19 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :

Vincent Untz schrieb:

...

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :

...

Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the right thing:

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

ok, the I could boot with option "x11failsafe" then.

What is the user to do to get a working X again? I don't want him to experiment with configuration tools, mainly because he might not understand (yet) what the options are about.

Giving him an 1 comand line automatically generated working X (like the first installation setup) is *very* helpful, especially when you are talking with somebody over the phone without any visual feedback.

As already mentioned, X should work just fine without a configuration file. So this is the command you'd want to use. And if it's not: "zypper in sax2; sax2" Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hello, On Fri, 07 Aug 2009, Mike wrote: [..]

The reason I ask, is that there are folks that use something other than the xorg furnished video drivers. Fglrx and the nvidia driver come to mind. As they aren't normally supplied with the distro, they must be added later. Then you have to tell x somehow to use that particular driver. If what you are saying is true, you'd either have to have an xorg.conf file, or reset these drivers each time you start the machine.

AFAIK/ISTR you can put only the needed stuff into the file. Something along the lines of (untested guesswork, from memory): ==== Section "Module" Load "glx" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor[0]" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Device[0]" Driver "nvidia" Option "NvAGP" "1" # sample option EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen[0]" Device "Device[0]" Monitor "Monitor[0]" EndSection ==== -- "I have always felt that violence was the last refuge of the incompetent, and emtpy threats the final sanctuary of the terminally inept." -- the Marquis de Carabas -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2009/08/07 18:19 (GMT+0200) Nicolaus Millin composed:

Vincent Untz schrieb:

...

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 17:32 +0200, Nicolaus Millin a écrit :

...

...

Which command line tool would be as easy and straightforward to use?

...

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the right thing:

...

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

ok, the I could boot with option "x11failsafe" then.

Used to be the only good reason to reboot Linux was to use a different kernel. Now that we have kexec the only reason should be to install anew, and you're saying to add a new reason, to get X to work? I don't think so, even for a live CD. -- How much better to get wisdom than gold, to choose understanding rather than silver. Proverbs 16:16 NKJV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 21:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 17:50 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the right thing:

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

How, if there is no longer going to be an xorg.conf?

The mail I replied too was specifically saying: "I had more than one user who by experimenting with drivers, window managers and different repos completely screw up their X configuration." which, I assumed, meant that the user was playing with xorg.conf Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sat, Aug 08, 2009 at 12:28:31AM +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 23:24 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 21:32 +0200, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 17:50 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

I would think the easiest way would be to go back to letting X do the right thing:

mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf.broken

How, if there is no longer going to be an xorg.conf?

The mail I replied too was specifically saying: "I had more than one user who by experimenting with drivers, window managers and different repos completely screw up their X configuration." which, I assumed, meant that the user was playing with xorg.conf

Ok, but I still want to know what will we do when there is no longer xorg.conf, when you remove it from the distro.

Did anyone ever say, "we are removing the xorg.conf for all time!" No, if you need it, it will still be there. thanks, greg "no xorg.conf for me here" k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Il sabato 08 agosto 2009, Carlos E. R. scrisse:

So, I want to know how will we mend things when X does not work and we have to change the non-existing configuration, from text mode, or from non-kde, non-gnome setups. Not right now, but in the future to come... (11.3?) so that we get used to the idea and start reporting problems. # xorg --configure it's a good starting point. Bye.

-- *** Linux user # 198661 ---_ ICQ 33500725 *** *** Home http://www.kailed.net *** *** Powered by openSUSE *** -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 20:02 -0400, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2009/08/08 00:28 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:

...

Ok, but I still want to know what will we do when there is no longer xorg.conf, when you remove it from the distro.

Freedesktop is trying to remove the _necessity_ to have xorg.conf. It has no plans to remove the _opportunity_ to use xorg.conf if you please or if necessary due to bugs or shortcomings in its automatic configuration subsystems.

Ah, that sounds better... but then it means, that we still will need sax2. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkp8x3kACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VMfQCdEO+4mTKZHBlBZut1XLWZbkhq V/QAnixO9Bb7hgTAgho6S8KLwn3tMDO7 =KcA7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata wrote:

Well maybe instead of a symlink something that displays some kind of help for those expecting to use it.

I could understand sax2 removal if xorg.conf-free would actually work, but based upon the development of recent iterations of Xorg and reading the fedora-devel and freedesktop xorg lists for more than the past year, I am highly skeptical that it will actually work reliably for everyone before 11.3 is released. Examples that come to mind:

1-broken or missing EDID/DDC (xorg.conf workarounds: PreferredMode, DisplaySize)

2-simultaneous multiple display configuration

3-native display mode is not a VESA mode (e.g. 1440x900) and the x11failsafe 1024x768 (or worse) fallback is inexplicably using a 75 VertRefresh for a display that supports only 60, putting the display into sleep mode

4-user wants to globally fudge DPI and/or DisplaySize to suit taste

5-display orientation (can any display tell X when it is being used rotated 90 degrees?)

6-user wants to prevent dynamics (lock everything down regardless)

I simply don't expect anything to work better than sax2 for edge cases so soon, and so I think it premature to say "first thing to be removed from the install" for 11.3. Better to say it will be removed when proven _completely_ obsolete and that that state is hoped to be reached for release X.X.

A couple of other scenario's that exist as well that need a xorg.conf 1) special setups such as SLi, crossfire 2) multi card setups of different makes 3) GPGPU computing that requires a xorg to detect more then the primary card in the system. Dean -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 11:28 -0600, Dean Hilkewich a écrit :

A couple of other scenario's that exist as well that need a xorg.conf

1) special setups such as SLi, crossfire 2) multi card setups of different makes 3) GPGPU computing that requires a xorg to detect more then the primary card in the system.

I won't reply to all mails. I just want to point out the subject of the thread. It's not about killing sax, or not installing it from the dvd. It's about the live cd. Would you install from a live cd if you don't have X working on the live cd? I seriously doubt it. And if you want to change some X stuff afterwards, you can still install sax... Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 20:29 +0200, Jakub 'Livio' Rusinek a écrit :

On 07.08.2009 20:11, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 11:28 -0600, Dean Hilkewich a écrit :

...

A couple of other scenario's that exist as well that need a xorg.conf

1) special setups such as SLi, crossfire 2) multi card setups of different makes 3) GPGPU computing that requires a xorg to detect more then the primary card in the system.

I won't reply to all mails. I just want to point out the subject of the thread. It's not about killing sax, or not installing it from the dvd. It's about the live cd. Would you install from a live cd if you don't have X working on the live cd? I seriously doubt it. And if you want to change some X stuff afterwards, you can still install sax...

Thinking this way, let's place only installer on LiveCD...

I didn't state things the way I wanted, I guess: + if you install from the livecd, then it means that you already have X working. + all the X configuration is supposed to be dynamic now, with tools already provided on the desktop. So if you want to change things like resolution or add a new monitor, this should be working fine. + admittedly, there are use cases where this still doesn't work well. The question is "how many people installing from a livecd should need sax for one of those use cases?". My personal opinion is that it's only something like 1%. (and maybe I'm completely wrong) I'm not saying "we should not support those 1%". I'm balancing the cost of removing sax2 from the livecd with the benefit of putting some other stuff on the livecd to make it more attractive. Now, you might disagree with this. Vincent -- Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 23:21 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

I didn't state things the way I wanted, I guess:

+ if you install from the livecd, then it means that you already have X working.

+ all the X configuration is supposed to be dynamic now, with tools already provided on the desktop. So if you want to change things like resolution or add a new monitor, this should be working fine.

And, what do we do if X does not work, or does so incorrectly, if there is no configuration file, and as graphic mode does not run, we can't reach those desktop tools? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkp8q/QACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VteACfW5EapFglw3144eEkbDyUlEVW xXkAmwWELddoYbwtONhZpORhw/9kdDxg =tlHT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

So. You install from the livecd with X working (see first item above), you don't tweak the configuration (since you don't have a configuration file) and then... X does not work? If this happens, then it'd be a *huge* bug, which should certainly not occur on a released version of openSUSE. I mean, "huge bug" as in "blocker". Sorry, I don't follow what use case you're trying to cover here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, though (and maybe it's just that I should be sleeping already ;-))?

I've always had to run sax2 to get 3d accelleration on my video cards. Does the automatic config turn on 3d accell and multiple monitor support? I could see that as a good reason to keep sax2 even on the livecds -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-08-08 at 02:45 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le samedi 08 août 2009, à 00:34 +0200, Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

On Friday, 2009-08-07 at 23:21 +0200, Vincent Untz wrote:

...

I didn't state things the way I wanted, I guess:

+ if you install from the livecd, then it means that you already have X working.

+ all the X configuration is supposed to be dynamic now, with tools already provided on the desktop. So if you want to change things like resolution or add a new monitor, this should be working fine.

And, what do we do if X does not work, or does so incorrectly, if there is no configuration file, and as graphic mode does not run, we can't reach those desktop tools?

So. You install from the livecd with X working (see first item above), you don't tweak the configuration (since you don't have a configuration file) and then... X does not work? If this happens, then it'd be a *huge* bug, which should certainly not occur on a released version of openSUSE. I mean, "huge bug" as in "blocker".

Sorry, I don't follow what use case you're trying to cover here. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, though (and maybe it's just that I should be sleeping already ;-))?

I'm thinking not only of the live CD, but of the future of the distro without sax2, and/or without xorg.conf. How will we (users) do it.

Anyway, coolo already said that removing sax2 from the livecd in 11.2 is not an option, so unless he changes his mind because of the space issues, we're having here a discussion which will lead nowhere in all cases ;-)

Ok, not regarding this CD.

It's a good opportunity to raise awareness on X autoconfiguration so that people play with it, though. This will certainly help us identify potential issues for 11.3.

That's exactly the point! Autoconfiguration scares the (4lw) out of me, so me, we, want to know what do we do do to bypass the autoconfiguration in the future. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkp9N48ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VGBwCeImhK2woEaigvqAJ7jJLd2rxI q5EAnR8xGg/KQ0iitquocQcGcgkkG6Ut =1StD -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2009-08-08 at 10:51 +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:

Carlos E. R. a écrit :

...

That's exactly the point! Autoconfiguration scares the (4lw) out of me, so me, we, want to know what do we do do to bypass the autoconfiguration in the future.

bypass or make it work :-)

Rather "bypass to make it work" ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkp9QFkACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VYOgCgiLOqPLxhjbwalkr3xgppwuXD 0ngAn0L9eReO7tnXMxfbLW6mIb43toks =xdvw -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I won't reply to all mails. I just want to point out the subject of the thread. It's not about killing sax, or not installing it from the dvd. It's about the live cd. Would you install from a live cd if you don't have X working on the live cd? I seriously doubt it. And if you want to change some X stuff afterwards, you can still install sax...

Vincent

Skip it from Live CD/media Daniel

On Friday 07 August 2009 12:41:17 pm jdd (kim2) wrote:

so what could we do without sax???

If necessary: mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf-borked and then: X -configure test: X -config xorg.conf.new if test passed, then put it in place: cp xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf It works here more often then sax2. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 09:38:29AM +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:

Rajko M. a écrit :

...

On Friday 07 August 2009 12:41:17 pm jdd (kim2) wrote:

...

so what could we do without sax???

If necessary: mv /etc/X11/xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf-borked

and then: X -configure

test: X -config xorg.conf.new

if test passed, then put it in place: cp xorg.conf.new /etc/X11/xorg.conf

It works here more often then sax2.

on my 11.1, this don't works. X -configure gives an error message (server already running), X :1 -configure returns immediately without creating xorg.conf(same for X -config file)

You need to go to tty1 and first type `init 3`. Then do the steps and then type `init 5 && exit` This already shows the disadvantage over sax2. It is a great way if sax2 does not work to get to a situation where you get a GUI, so you can launch sax2 to do the finetuning. It does not mean it is a replacement, it is an addition to it. I tried it and got a GUI as test. I did NOT get any way of configuring anything, nor the ability to configure my second screen. This does not mean it is useless, because it isn't. It is very helpfull and should be seen as part of the whole solution. I do not see it as a replacement for sax2. houghi -- ________________________ Open your eyes, open your mind | proud like a god don't pretend to be blind | trapped in yourself, break out instead http://openSUSE.org | beat the machine that works in your head -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:45:10AM +0200, jdd (kim2) wrote:

this almost worked.

X -configure gives a new xorg.conf.new in the root home (not in the current directory).

X -config xorg.conf.new gives a grey screeen with a mose cursor working, no question, no available answer. Control Alr backspace to kill.

Copy to xorg.conf, init 5 and it launches kdm. However, after login, I'm with QWERTY keyboard, not AZERTY as I should, so back to root terminal to copy back the working sax2 xorg.conf

As there is no further configuration, it is a very good start if your X does not work as a starting point to configure the rest. It is great if you have an X that is FUBAR. You use this and then re-configure it with whatever you want and that is where sax2 comes in. houghi -- This was written under the influence of the following: | Artist : Evanescence | Song : Breathe No More | Album : Not For Your Ears -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* jdd (kim2) [08-09-09 05:46]:

...

this almost worked.

X -configure gives a new xorg.conf.new in the root home (not in the current directory).

X -config xorg.conf.new gives a grey screeen with a mose cursor working, no question, no available answer. Control Alr backspace to kill.

Copy to xorg.conf, init 5 and it launches kdm. However, after login, I'm with QWERTY keyboard, not AZERTY as I should, so back to root terminal to copy back the working sax2 xorg.conf

Yeah, almost worked for me toooo, black screen that flickered several times. Moved the nvidia generated xorg.conf file back and had screen again.

So have a look at the /var/log/Xorg.0.log from that flickering. Believe me, sax is more stupid than you, not knowing anything about you. ;-)) Viele Gruesse Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Moenkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Goettingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Neumair Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dipl.-Kfm. Markus Hoppe Sitz der Gesellschaft: Goettingen Registergericht: Goettingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-09-09 19:33]:

...

So have a look at the /var/log/Xorg.0.log from that flickering. Believe me, sax is more stupid than you, not knowing anything about you. ;-))

:^) No errors, but no screen. Just black with a few flickers and backlight showing around the edges. But NO screen. After 4 or 5 minutes, I returned to tty1 and killed the session, replaced xorg.conf and init 5 to a working session.

Try to find what the monitor has said, and enter that into /etc/X11/xorg.conf. I never would have thought that, but experiences now showed several times that sax2 simply is more stupid than a human reading /var/log/Xorg.0.log. Viele Gruesse Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Moenkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Goettingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Neumair Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dipl.-Kfm. Markus Hoppe Sitz der Gesellschaft: Goettingen Registergericht: Goettingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On Sun, 9 Aug 2009, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-09-09 20:26]:

...

Try to find what the monitor has said, and enter that into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.

Sorry, I don't understand your meaning here...

After the lines from detecting your graphics card, you will find some lines from detecting your monitor. Your monitor is telling his capabilities by clear resolution and frequency numbers. Just correct your "Monitor" Section with these data, and maybe the "Modes" section too. Viele Gruesse Eberhard Moenkeberg (emoenke@gwdg.de, em@kki.org) -- Eberhard Moenkeberg Arbeitsgruppe IT-Infrastruktur E-Mail: emoenke@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1551 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gesellschaft fuer wissenschaftliche Datenverarbeitung mbH Goettingen (GWDG) Am Fassberg 11, 37077 Goettingen URL: http://www.gwdg.de E-Mail: gwdg@gwdg.de Tel.: +49 (0)551 201-1510 Fax: +49 (0)551 201-2150 Geschaeftsfuehrer: Prof. Dr. Bernhard Neumair Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Dipl.-Kfm. Markus Hoppe Sitz der Gesellschaft: Goettingen Registergericht: Goettingen Handelsregister-Nr. B 598 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Patrick Shanahan [08-09-09 21:56]:

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-09-09 21:44]:

...

...

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-09-09 20:26]:

After the lines from detecting your graphics card, you will find some lines from detecting your monitor. Your monitor is telling his capabilities by clear resolution and frequency numbers.

Just correct your "Monitor" Section with these data, and maybe the "Modes" section too.

I will check. I'm out of X right now and an update of xorg.* is ongoing. I will test before returning to X.

Ok, it doesn't like the nvidia driver, I guess. X.Org X Server 1.6.3 Release Date: 2009-7-31 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0 Build Operating System: openSUSE SUSE LINUX Current Operating System: Linux wahoo 2.6.31-rc5-git3-2-default #1 SMP 2009-08-06 23:25:57 +0200 x86_64 Build Date: 09 August 2009 11:06:04PM Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org to make sure that you have the latest version. Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Sun Aug 9 22:25:45 2009 (++) Using config file: "./xorg.conf.new" (EE) module ABI major version (1) doesn't match the server's version (2) (EE) Failed to load module "vnc" (module requirement mismatch, 0) (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) /var/log/Xorg.0.log and xorg.conf.new are available: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/Xorg.0.log http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/xorg.conf.new tks, -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-10-09 05:41]:

(--) NV: Found NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GS at 05@00:00:0 ... (II) NV(0): Probing for analog device on output A... (--) NV(0): ...found one (II) NV(0): Probing for analog device on output B... (--) NV(0): ...found one (II) NV(0): Probing for EDID on I2C bus A... (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:E-EDID segment register" registered at address 0x60. (II) NV(0): I2C device "DDC:ddc2" registered at address 0xA0. (--) NV(0): DDC detected a DFP: (II) NV(0): Manufacturer: SAM Model: 467 Serial#: 1129132596 (II) NV(0): Year: 2009 Week: 1 (II) NV(0): EDID Version: 1.3 (II) NV(0): Digital Display Input (II) NV(0): Max Image Size [cm]: horiz.: 52 vert.: 32 (II) NV(0): Gamma: 2.20 (II) NV(0): DPMS capabilities: Off (II) NV(0): Supported color encodings: RGB 4:4:4 YCrCb 4:4:4 (II) NV(0): First detailed timing is preferred mode (II) NV(0): redX: 0.650 redY: 0.337 greenX: 0.296 greenY: 0.604 (II) NV(0): blueX: 0.147 blueY: 0.074 whiteX: 0.312 whiteY: 0.329 ... (II) NV(0): h_active: 1920 h_sync: 1968 h_sync_end 2000 h_blank_end 2080 h_border: 0 (II) NV(0): v_active: 1200 v_sync: 1203 v_sync_end 1209 v_blanking: 1235 v_border: 0 (II) NV(0): Ranges: V min: 56 V max: 75 Hz, H min: 30 H max: 81 kHz, PixClock max 170 MHz (II) NV(0): Monitor name: SyncMaster

With these infos, you can build an appropriate mode line:

Section "Modes" Identifier "Modes[0]" Modeline "1920x1200" 154 1920 1968 2000 2080 1200 1203 1209 1235 EndSection

which is indeed already in the log:

(II) NV(0): Printing DDC gathered Modelines: (II) NV(0): Modeline "1920x1200"x0.0 154.00 1920 1968 2000 2080 1200 1203 1209 1235 +hsync -vsync (74.0 kHz)

and a monitor section:

Section "Monitor" DisplaySize 520 320 HorizSync 30-81 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "SyncMaster" VertRefresh 56-75 UseModes "Modes[0]" EndSection

ok, mod xorg.conf as: diff ./xorg.conf.new ./xorg.conf.new.1 68,70c68,70 < Driver "nv" < VendorName "Unknown Vendor" < BoardName "Unknown Board" ---

Driver "nvidia" VendorName "nVidia" BoardName "7300GS"

101a102,115

EndSection

Section "Modes" Identifier "Modes[0]" Modeline "1920x1200" 154 1920 1968 2000 2080 1200 1203 1209 1235 EndSection

Section "Monitor" DisplaySize 520 320 HorizSync 30-81 Identifier "Monitor[0]" ModelName "SyncMaster" VertRefresh 56-75 UseModes "Modes[0]"

Same result, but now get EE vnc module version mis-match to libvnc... I guess this means that xorg.X11 is later version? http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/Xorg.0.log.1 For this test, vnc is not important. Commented out the load order and retried. Now get no error, *but* still no screen, blank with backlight hints. http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/Xorg.0.log.2 Changed driver from "nvidia" back to "nv" Now: (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found) Still *no* screen! Past experience shows that this error results from the proprietary nVidia driver removing several files: missing /usr/lib64/dri/gallium/libGL.so.1 missing /usr/lib64/dri/gallium/libGL.so.1.2 missing /usr/lib64/libGL.so.1.2 missing /usr/lib/libGL.so.1.2 from: Mesa Mesa-32bit xorg-x11-driver-video-nouveau-3d after replacing the missing files: I was wrong, still blank/black screen. reinstalling the proprietary nvidia driver. tks, -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Patrick Shanahan [08-10-09 11:33]:

* Patrick Shanahan [08-10-09 11:01]:

more: following xorg.conf *does* work and was generated with nvidia-xconfig http://wahoo.no-ip.org/~pat/nvidia.xorg.conf

Also: none of my versions of xorg.conf work or show a screen with X -config ./some.ver.xorg.conf

Next time I have an occasion to restart X I will try the xorg.conf generated via "X -configure" and report result.

Edited xorg.conf generated by "X -configure" and removed sections "Modes" and "Monitor" and reverted to "nv" driver. Restarted X successfully and running now. Plasma-desktop started and composit effects work. Appears there is a *lot* in the sax2 generated xorg.conf which is not necessary. tks, -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Rajko M. [08-10-09 19:44]:

On Monday 10 August 2009 04:26:42 pm Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

Appears there is a lot in the sax2 generated xorg.conf which is not necessary.

Not for today's Xorg, that can work without any, although it is still not perfect solution for every possible combination of hardware.

I believe that the next time I drop out of X, I will try restarting w/o an xorg.conf and see what happens. 11.2/Factory M5. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* jdd (kim2) [08-11-09 02:06]:

Patrick Shanahan a écrit :

...

Appears there is a *lot* in the sax2 generated xorg.conf which is not necessary.

but these lines are very usefull as templates when just a little change can make the system work (like changing nvidia to nv)

Humm, I just broke *that* theory :^) I am presently running with nVidia drivers, not nv, without *any* xorg.conf file. 11.2/M5 xorg-x11-driver-video-7.4-114.2 xorg-x11-libs-7.4-41.6 xorg-x11-libX11-7.4-17.9 xorg-x11-server-7.4-66.1 xorg-x11-server-extra-7.4-66.1 xorg-x11-driver-video-nouveau-3d-0.10.1.20090505-2.3 and a few more :^) 00:05 wahoo:~ >glxinfo name of display: :0.0 display: :0 screen: 0 direct rendering: Yes server glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation server glx version string: 1.4 server glx extensions: GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_ARB_create_context, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_NV_float_buffer, GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float client glx vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation client glx version string: 1.4 client glx extensions: GLX_ARB_get_proc_address, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_EXT_import_context, GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_NV_swap_group, GLX_NV_video_out, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_ARB_create_context, GLX_NV_float_buffer, GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float, GLX_EXT_fbconfig_packed_float, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_EXT_framebuffer_sRGB, GLX_NV_present_video, GLX_NV_multisample_coverage GLX extensions: GLX_EXT_visual_info, GLX_EXT_visual_rating, GLX_SGIX_fbconfig, GLX_SGIX_pbuffer, GLX_SGI_video_sync, GLX_SGI_swap_control, GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap, GLX_ARB_create_context, GLX_ARB_multisample, GLX_NV_float_buffer, GLX_ARB_fbconfig_float, GLX_ARB_get_proc_address OpenGL vendor string: NVIDIA Corporation OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 7300 GS/PCI/SSE2 OpenGL version string: 2.1.2 NVIDIA 185.18.31 -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* houghi [08-12-09 05:13]:

On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:09:39AM -0400, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

I am presently running with nVidia drivers, not nv, without *any* xorg.conf file.

Me as wel. But I do have /etc/X11/iXF86Config

The first lines say: # nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings # nvidia-settings: version 1.0 (buildmeister@builder62) Tue Mar 24 # 06:16:11 PST 2009

I do not have this file, or any other in /etc/X11/ date stamped within five minutes +/- of my starting X.

If I have time, I will do some testing. I asume that renaming it to xorg.conf might be the same result as both might be read.

research :^) -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Daniele a écrit :

Il mercoledì 12 agosto 2009, Patrick Shanahan scrisse:

...

Humm, I just broke *that* theory :^)

I am presently running with nVidia drivers, not nv, without *any* xorg.conf file. Right, because Xorg load (try) driver in this order: Nvidia->noveau->nv

yes, but if the first one break X, the system stops. Having the xorg.conf file allows choosing the driver it's just usefull if the other system break, of course jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Eberhard Moenkeberg [08-10-09 11:46]:

The modeline entry does not get used.

the nvidia-xconfig xorg.conf did not even contain one

The driver is telling something about using "nvidia auto detect" mode, and probably that is driving your display into sleep mode.

I don't know, there is no *apparent* activity, no flicker or intensity change. -- Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://counter.li.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 5:35 PM, Vincent Untz wrote:

Le vendredi 07 août 2009, à 00:59 +0200, Vincent Untz a écrit :

...

Hi,

I wonder why we have sax2 on the live cds. If X is not working, then it doesn't really make a lot of sense to even try to use the live cd, does it?

Just to give some context: on the GNOME Live CD, only a few packages require qt4: the graphical part of smolt, sax and yast2-qt.

It turns out that:

 + we don't need yast2-qt on the GNOME live cd (as far as I know)

 + we don't specifically need the graphical part of smolt (we do want   the non-graphical part to send the data, though)

And then there's sax.

The size of all the qt4 packages is more than 15MB (compressed). That's huge; we could put applications there. The sax2 packages add around 2MB to that. (this is based on the size of the rpm, and the real size used on the livecd can of course be different)

Now, for M5, some packages were removed from the livecd because of space issues. This was a bad surprise. So we're trying to get things back into control.

Thanks,

Vincent

Was the space issue just with the GNOME live cd, or also with the KDE one? If both, it seems a solution that eliminates files from both CDs is needed. If the issue is just the gnome one, then maybe remove sax2 and make it clear on the download page that sax2 is not included, thus many complex graphical environments may not work. For those environments, the full install DVD will be required. Thoughts? Greg -- Greg Freemyer Head of EDD Tape Extraction and Processing team Litigation Triage Solutions Specialist http://www.linkedin.com/in/gregfreemyer Preservation and Forensic processing of Exchange Repositories White Paper - http://www.norcrossgroup.com/forms/whitepapers/tng_whitepaper_fpe.html The Norcross Group The Intersection of Evidence & Technology http://www.norcrossgroup.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

let me try to make this clearer. I don't need specifically "sax2". It's very rare that we have now to change mouse or keyboard config, so this part is optional. We do have, however, often, problems with the graphical display in such a way than we have to use command line tools. I had this some time ago on factory. so we need a command line tool. This can be as simple as a script to copy some predefined xorg.conf file to the right place. Time ago, framebuffer was the better falloff, more recently it was vesa buffer. What is the situation now? and then a 512 bytes message displayed from "sxa2" for people not following this thread so well is a bare minimum jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://valerie.dodin.org http://news.opensuse.org/2009/04/13/people-of-opensuse-jean-daniel-dodin/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org