[opensuse-factory] RFC: Please enable tap-to-click by default (redux)

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Atri

28 Jun 2012 28 Jun '12

11:12

Hi! This has been discussed at length previously [1] with detailed arguments to both sides of the view, but with a couple of years having passed by since that discussion, and with many laptop shipping with touchpads lacking dedicated click-buttons [2] these days, it might be worthwhile to revisit the decision to disable tap-to-click by default on touchpads. At present, the tap-to-click capabilities in the xinput stack are configurable enough to be enabled by default while still allowing it to be deactivated upto a few seconds after the last keyboard stroke, thus preventing accidental tap-to-clicking while typing. As a result tap-to-click today provides a comfortable and safe input experience for (all?) users. I don't have any data really to make an honest claim, but from my experience most laymen users search for and turn on the configuration to tap-to-click the first thing on GNOME, KDE, etc. anyway. Turning this on by default reduces them that first "trouble". Enabling it by default will provide a welcome benefit for most users, not to mention new comers who are just used to tap-to-clicking on other user-enviroments (win, mac) from the get go. Also, along with this, enabling by default the option to deactivate tap-to-click for a few seconds after the last keystroke while typing takes care of accidental clicks and I think, therefore, this change will be welcome to all. I am surely out of my depth here, but I understand this change would likely involve modifications to the default xorg configuration and a few changed settings in the default settings of the desktop environments (GNOME, KDE, xfce, etc.) but nothing humongous. If there is broad agreement, I could try to work this myself with help and advice from the many experts here. Opinions please ;) Thanks for the attention and bye. -- Atri [1] In the mailing lists ( http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-factory/2010-06/msg00256.html ) and over at bugzilla ( https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554884 ) [2] Resembling this, for example: http://sp.sony-europe.com/da/977/292797.jpeg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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Claudio Freire

28 Jun 28 Jun

15:18

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Atri wrote:

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Enabling it by default will provide a welcome benefit for most users, not to mention new comers who are just used to tap-to-clicking on other user-enviroments (win, mac) from the get go. Also, along with this, enabling by default the option to deactivate tap-to-click for a few seconds after the last keystroke while typing takes care of accidental clicks and I think, therefore, this change will be welcome to all.

Not only that, but also some way of scrolling should be enabled by default. I've had trouble with this one, in some netbooks. Trouble here is, that not all touchpads support the same scrolling method. Many modern ones do it through multi-finger dragging, but single-touch pads in some netbooks may require simpler methods (ie: drag the edge). The type of touchpad would have to be used in order to decide the default, and that's a little less simple. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Takashi Iwai

15:30

At Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:18:26 -0300, Claudio Freire wrote:

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On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 8:12 AM, Atri wrote:

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Enabling it by default will provide a welcome benefit for most users, not to mention new comers who are just used to tap-to-clicking on other user-enviroments (win, mac) from the get go. Also, along with this, enabling by default the option to deactivate tap-to-click for a few seconds after the last keystroke while typing takes care of accidental clicks and I think, therefore, this change will be welcome to all.

Not only that, but also some way of scrolling should be enabled by default. I've had trouble with this one, in some netbooks. Trouble here is, that not all touchpads support the same scrolling method. Many modern ones do it through multi-finger dragging, but single-touch pads in some netbooks may require simpler methods (ie: drag the edge).

The type of touchpad would have to be used in order to decide the default, and that's a little less simple.

synaptics driver itself enables the two-fingered vertical scroll per default as long as the device supports, and falls back to edge scroll if not. If it doesn't work, it means something else breaks the setup. Tap-to-click is different. It's enabled as default only when no physical buttons are found. And, yeah, I also prefer having tap-to-click by default. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

15:50

Torsdag den 28. juni 2012 17:30:57 Takashi Iwai skrev:

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Tap-to-click is different. It's enabled as default only when no physical buttons are found.

And, yeah, I also prefer having tap-to-click by default.

Luckily the poor defaults don't have to apply everywhere. I have a bugreport to enable tapping at least in KDE via synaptiks configuration: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=722457 That way at least users will only think their hardware is unsupported by openSUSE during install and in non-KDE desktop environments. Unfortunately I'm not having much luck getting anyone with the proper skills to care though. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Takashi Iwai

29 Jun 29 Jun

07:55

At Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:50:47 +0200, Martin Schlander wrote:

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Torsdag den 28. juni 2012 17:30:57 Takashi Iwai skrev:

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Tap-to-click is different. It's enabled as default only when no physical buttons are found.

And, yeah, I also prefer having tap-to-click by default.

Luckily the poor defaults don't have to apply everywhere.

I have a bugreport to enable tapping at least in KDE via synaptiks configuration: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=722457

That way at least users will only think their hardware is unsupported by openSUSE during install and in non-KDE desktop environments.

The necessary change for the bare X is just add three lines into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics. But these setups are anyway overridden by GNOME or KDE. I'm not sure whether synaptiks or gsynaptics check the original values at the very first time, though. Takashi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:44

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-29 09:55, Takashi Iwai wrote:

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The necessary change for the bare X is just add three lines into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics. But these setups are anyway overridden by GNOME or KDE. I'm not sure whether synaptiks or gsynaptics check the original values at the very first time, though.

What lines? It sure is a nuisance when I log out and in the greeter I'm surprised that the mouse does not work till I remember to click instead of tap. Or perhaps login as the user gdm and do the changes for that user... - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/tlQ4ACgkQIvFNjefEBxqkGgCcDR6YKV2OxEtEX5sY7GlDB+1J EmoAoIMpHNlxwox7iSH7XK+c9EzXS+ht =QoWg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Atri

12:10

On Fri, 2012-06-29 at 13:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-06-29 09:55, Takashi Iwai wrote:

...
The necessary change for the bare X is just add three lines into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics. But these setups are anyway overridden by GNOME or KDE. I'm not sure whether synaptiks or gsynaptics check the original values at the very first time, though.

What lines?

It sure is a nuisance when I log out and in the greeter I'm surprised that the mouse does not work till I remember to click instead of tap.

Or perhaps login as the user gdm and do the changes for that user...

Indeed, the idea for my suggestion is to make tap-to-click a working and consistent (and safe!) user-experience across the entire system, i.e. starting at the openSUSE installer, at login screens (gdm, kdm, others) and across desktop environments (GNOME, KDE, xfce, etc.) -- Atri -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:15

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-29 14:10, Atri wrote:

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Indeed, the idea for my suggestion is to make tap-to-click a working and consistent (and safe!) user-experience across the entire system, i.e. starting at the openSUSE installer, at login screens (gdm, kdm, others) and across desktop environments (GNOME, KDE, xfce, etc.)

Yes, absolutely. With a token in sysconfig to enable/disable as default for all. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/tnFYACgkQIvFNjefEBxouYwCdHIrbod4W/Gz6rWyegqVxfOlx a+8An0QOMDGuxwy0d6Trg5asP1Gz0JSd =wugk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Odd Ball

15:09

Atri schreef:

...

On Fri, 2012-06-29 at 13:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...
On 2012-06-29 09:55, Takashi Iwai wrote:

...
The necessary change for the bare X is just add three lines into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics. But these setups are anyway overridden by GNOME or KDE. I'm not sure whether synaptiks or gsynaptics check the original values at the very first time, though. What lines?

It sure is a nuisance when I log out and in the greeter I'm surprised that the mouse does not work till I remember to click instead of tap.

Or perhaps login as the user gdm and do the changes for that user...

Indeed, the idea for my suggestion is to make tap-to-click a working and consistent (and safe!) user-experience across the entire system, i.e. starting at the openSUSE installer, at login screens (gdm, kdm, others) and across desktop environments (GNOME, KDE, xfce, etc.) That would be fine..:-) How about disable pad when typing, and the standard time about 2 sec's? (this option is out of the settings, was still in it in 11.4)

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Martin Schlander

17:48

Fredag den 29. juni 2012 17:09:08 Odd Ball skrev:

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How about disable pad when typing, and the standard time about 2 sec's? (this option is out of the settings, was still in it in 11.4)

Are you talking about KDE/synaptiks? In the synaptiks version in 12.1 the option to disable touchpad during typing is "hidden" in the systray icon (run 'synaptiks' to start it). The option is no longer available in the synaptiks systemsettings module in recent synaptiks versions - only via the systray. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Joachim Schrod

12:19

New subject: [opensuse-factory] Re: RFC: Please enable tap-to-click by default (redux)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2012-06-29 09:55, Takashi Iwai wrote:

...
The necessary change for the bare X is just add three lines into /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/50-synaptics. But these setups are anyway overridden by GNOME or KDE. I'm not sure whether synaptiks or gsynaptics check the original values at the very first time, though.

What lines?

Option "TapButton1" "1" If you want to have middle button click by tap in the right top corner, add also Option "RTCornerButton" "2" "man synaptics" for the gory details. But -- if you do that yourself on your system, it's better not to change 50-synaptics.conf. Add another file 51-synaptics.conf with the content Section "InputClass" Identifier "touchpad tap to klick" MatchIsTouchpad "on" Option "TapButton1" "1" Option "RTCornerButton" "2" EndSection and leave packaged files alone. HTH, Joachim -- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Joachim Schrod, Roedermark, Germany Email: jschrod@acm.org -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:30

New subject: [opensuse-factory] Re: RFC: Please enable tap-to-click by default (redux)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 2012-06-29 14:19, Joachim Schrod wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Section "InputClass" Identifier "touchpad tap to klick" MatchIsTouchpad "on" Option "TapButton1" "1" Option "RTCornerButton" "2" EndSection

and leave packaged files alone.

True. Thanks. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAk/tn9gACgkQIvFNjefEBxpCmwCeMO5w5elFD6StHnqS+X3Q9LBH p9sAn16t13VGSkfh6MSojREROhRH572p =AwRG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

19:01

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, 2012-06-29 at 13:44 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Or perhaps login as the user gdm and do the changes for that user...

I tried this. First I had to enable login for that user, add a password. I logged in (gnome), enabled tap. In the desktop it worked. Logged out, but it does not work in gdm greeter. Why? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 11.4 x86_64 "Celadon" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAk/t+54ACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XuqgCfceEqY3vZMG0r08MYAVv1BAgn +BsAoIzNcwXDIsThwcOyRCfvPCOdcN+B =ErNP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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Atri
Carlos E. R.
Claudio Freire
Joachim Schrod
Martin Schlander
Odd Ball
Takashi Iwai