[opensuse-factory] should keyboards with active LEDs be suspended
Hi, powersaving in the idle state requires the USB busses to be suspended. This means that all LEDs on keyboards (Num-lock, CapaLock, ...) will be deactivated. The keyboards behavior is not affected. Can we live with an inconsistency of this kind or should keyboards with active LEDs not go into powersave? Regards Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, on Montag, 8. Oktober 2007, Oliver Neukum wrote:
powersaving in the idle state requires the USB busses to be suspended. This means that all LEDs on keyboards (Num-lock, CapaLock, ...) will be deactivated. The keyboards behavior is not affected. Can we live with an inconsistency of this kind or should keyboards with active LEDs not go into powersave?
It seems people don't want to do technical votings on this list ;-) so I'm the first one answering. IMHO the answer depends on how many energy can be saved. Do you have some rough numbers? If we are talking about 0,5% energy saving, I would prefer correct LEDs. But if we are talking about 10%, I don't care about correct LED status. Besides that, I think that people usually look more at the screen than at the keyboard. I probably wouldn't even notice if the keyboard LEDs were switched off ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz --
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Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
IMHO the answer depends on how many energy can be saved. Do you have some rough numbers?
On my old laptop about 5% when idle. It depends on the exact configuration. 5% should be about typical for a laptop with only a keyboard (or mouse) attached. The main savings come from suspending the controller and going into deeper C states, so it doesn't matter which type of device is attached as long as it supports autosuspend. Regards Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:24 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
IMHO the answer depends on how many energy can be saved. Do you have some rough numbers?
On my old laptop about 5% when idle. It depends on the exact configuration. 5% should be about typical for a laptop with only a keyboard (or mouse) attached. The main savings come from suspending the controller and going into deeper C states, so it doesn't matter which type of device is attached as long as it supports autosuspend.
I prefer the energy savings. 5% (I assume as a fraction of maximum power consumption) is noticeable. If your total battery lifetime is 3 hours you will get an additional 9 minutes. I'm also assuming the keyboard LEDs would come back when you start doing something, like typing, and stay on for a while before going away again. On the other hand, I'm not sure how common it is to have a keyboard attached to a laptop running on batteries... -- Hans Petter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:24 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
IMHO the answer depends on how many energy can be saved. Do you have some rough numbers?
On my old laptop about 5% when idle. It depends on the exact configuration. 5% should be about typical for a laptop with only a keyboard (or mouse) attached. The main savings come from suspending the controller and going into deeper C states, so it doesn't matter which type of device is attached as long as it supports autosuspend.
I prefer the energy savings. 5% (I assume as a fraction of maximum power
5% of average energy consumption when idle.
consumption) is noticeable. If your total battery lifetime is 3 hours you will get an additional 9 minutes.
I'm also assuming the keyboard LEDs would come back when you start doing something, like typing, and stay on for a while before going away again.
They go on again, but the longer they stay on the less savings you get. The 5% figure is for a timeout of 2 seconds.
On the other hand, I'm not sure how common it is to have a keyboard attached to a laptop running on batteries...
Newer Apples have internal USB keyboards. Regards Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 07:51 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:24 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
I prefer the energy savings. 5% (I assume as a fraction of maximum power
5% of average energy consumption when idle.
Still sounds like a win to me, but I'm sure we'll get bug reports on it ("keyboard LEDs don't work"). Would it be possible to make it optional? -- Hans Petter --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 07:51 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:24 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
I prefer the energy savings. 5% (I assume as a fraction of maximum power
5% of average energy consumption when idle.
Still sounds like a win to me, but I'm sure we'll get bug reports on it ("keyboard LEDs don't work"). Would it be possible to make it optional?
The whole scheme is already optional. It can be switched at runtime. Regards Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hello, on Freitag, 12. Oktober 2007, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Fri, 2007-10-12 at 07:51 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Freitag 12 Oktober 2007 schrieb Hans Petter Jansson:
On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 22:24 +0200, Oliver Neukum wrote:
Am Donnerstag 11 Oktober 2007 schrieb Christian Boltz:
I prefer the energy savings. 5% (I assume as a fraction of maximum power
/me too
Still sounds like a win to me, but I'm sure we'll get bug reports on it ("keyboard LEDs don't work"). Would it be possible to make it optional?
No risk, no fun *g*
The whole scheme is already optional. It can be switched at runtime.
Then I'd vote for "just do it" ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- Grub. Da bootest du sogar ein Stück Pappe, auf dem du 'Betriebsystem' draufschreibst, und das in den Diskettenschacht schiebst. [Ernst Herzberg in suse-linux] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Oliver Neukum wrote:
On my old laptop about 5% when idle.
I (know people that) would kill for that kind of saving. :-) Go for it, I'd say. Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Inbound Product Mgmt T +49(911)74053-0 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) openSUSE/SUSE Linux Enterprise F +49(911)74053-483 GF: Markus Rex --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Sonntag 25 November 2007 schrieb Gerald Pfeifer:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007, Oliver Neukum wrote:
On my old laptop about 5% when idle.
I (know people that) would kill for that kind of saving. :-) Go for it, I'd say.
Recent kernels have made this configurable, so the issue has become moot as a kernel issue. Now it's the mobile team's problem. Regards Oliver --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (4)
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Christian Boltz -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Hans Petter Jansson -
Oliver Neukum