[opensuse-factory] Excess bloat must be removed!
Perhaps this is all going to be fixed in 10.2 since 10.1 was obviously very bad, but just to make sure, I would like to clarify and state some of my opinions on what needs to go or become better integrated. First of all having what seems to be so many different ways to manage packages is becomming ridiculous and I'm hoping something's going to be done to standardize on one. Syncronizing all of them has to be crazy. Zen is just horrible right now imo. Its so unconfigurable and the interface to install packages just seems way to simplistic. One can hardly find out information on the package..it just basically seems to be searching through a list. Not only that but most packages are shown twice or more depending on repositories and updates! I do not know why it can't be done like synaptic and keep one package and then being able to update (I think yast does it this way too). I had no idea what exactly to click and how it would work out! It needs to be trimmed down to only showing the package ONCE which would be the latest and if not allow one to upgrade. I just really am not liking zen right now at all. I do not know why they couldn't have just continued to improve the speed of yast and keep suseplugger also. Second is the ridiculous amount of packages that are installed on first installation. Perhaps trim down default GNOME and KDE desktop choices like Ubuntu does (basically good packages from each, can install more later). The system after first boot shouldnt be more then 2GB imo. I know I can configure packages in Yast manually and I guess I'll probably just have to go through that annoying task for now on. and Finally, and this is my big peeve. FIX THE FREAKIN MENUS! The organization takes WAY too much time and maybe it won't matter if slab is integrated but we do not need categories and then ANOTHER category and then 5 different web browsers! Why the heck was konqueror installed when I selected GNOME as my DE in the installation and no where did I install KDE! Seamonkey was also installed WTH! Basically we do not need second level categories and 5 different web browser and terminal apps (ESPECIALLY WHEN I SELECTED GNOME AS THE DE), sorry that is my major pet peeve right now. Its ridiculous that when one selects the defaults that they are given 5-10 of everything. Please PLEASE PLEASE Clean it up! Please don't mistake my tone. I'm considering a move back to suse because I like the polish and yast and such, but 10.1 (and some parts were from 10 and back) is making me and my computer feel very bloated and like I have to maintain a "beast". I know 10.1 was a bad apple, but hopefully this stuff is vastly cleared up. -- Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 23 augustus 2006 00:43, schreef Steve Barnhart:
Second is the ridiculous amount of packages that are installed on first installation. Perhaps trim down default GNOME and KDE desktop choices like Ubuntu does (basically good packages from each, can install more later). The system after first boot shouldnt be more then 2GB imo. I know I can configure packages in Yast manually and I guess I'll probably just have to go through that annoying task for now on.
Just like the KDE is going to do (http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+4+Application+Cleanup). They are dumping/merging a lot of programs because they are 'the same'. But I know that the openSUSE-team wants to cut down de distribution to 3 cd's so I guess a lot of those double-packages will be dropped then.
and Finally, and this is my big peeve. FIX THE FREAKIN MENUS! The organization takes WAY too much time and maybe it won't matter if slab is integrated but we do not need categories and then ANOTHER category and then 5 different web browsers! Basically we do not need second level categories and 5 different web browser and terminal apps (ESPECIALLY WHEN I SELECTED GNOME AS THE DE). Its ridiculous that when one selects the defaults that they are given 5-10 of everything. Please PLEASE PLEASE Clean it up!
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..? Azerion --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dňa St 23. August 2006 12:51 Azerion napísal:
Op woensdag 23 augustus 2006 00:43, schreef Steve Barnhart:
Second is the ridiculous amount of packages that are installed on first installation. Perhaps trim down default GNOME and KDE desktop choices like Ubuntu does (basically good packages from each, can install more later). The system after first boot shouldnt be more then 2GB imo. I know I can configure packages in Yast manually and I guess I'll probably just have to go through that annoying task for now on.
Just like the KDE is going to do (http://wiki.kde.org/tiki-index.php?page=KDE+4+Application+Cleanup). They are dumping/merging a lot of programs because they are 'the same'. But I know that the openSUSE-team wants to cut down de distribution to 3 cd's so I guess a lot of those double-packages will be dropped then.
and Finally, and this is my big peeve. FIX THE FREAKIN MENUS! The organization takes WAY too much time and maybe it won't matter if slab is integrated but we do not need categories and then ANOTHER category and then 5 different web browsers! Basically we do not need second level categories and 5 different web browser and terminal apps (ESPECIALLY WHEN I SELECTED GNOME AS THE DE). Its ridiculous that when one selects the defaults that they are given 5-10 of everything. Please PLEASE PLEASE Clean it up!
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..?
This is already implemented in KDE desktop (I think it's SUSE-specific patch). Stano --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..?
This is already implemented in KDE desktop (I think it's SUSE-specific patch).
And where can we find it? If I am not able to find it how does Joe Avarage has to find it....if it is there as you said. Azerion --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Wednesday 30 August 2006 03:00 schrieb Azerion:
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..?
This is already implemented in KDE desktop (I think it's SUSE-specific patch).
And where can we find it? If I am not able to find it how does Joe Avarage has to find it....if it is there as you said.
hm, I think this is obsolete anyway with the new menu system of 10.2 .. ? -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nuernberg, Germany email: adrian@suse.de --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 03:00 schrieb Azerion:
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..?
This is already implemented in KDE desktop (I think it's SUSE-specific patch).
And where can we find it? If I am not able to find it how does Joe Avarage has to find it....if it is there as you said.
Where you can find it? The KDE desktop is a selection in 10.1 and is a pattern in 10.2 Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Op woensdag 30 augustus 2006 10:08, schreef Stephan Kulow:
Am Mittwoch, 30. August 2006 03:00 schrieb Azerion:
I think a lot of this comes with the package-cleanup but I agree that 2nd lever menu's are too-much. On the other hand: if you have a lot of packages it will be nice to have then in 2nd level organized. Maybe an idea to ask the KDE/Gnome-team to implement an option for that or only 2nd-level when more then 2 of the same 2nd-level-category are installed..?
This is already implemented in KDE desktop (I think it's SUSE-specific patch).
And where can we find it? If I am not able to find it how does Joe Avarage has to find it....if it is there as you said.
Where you can find it? The KDE desktop is a selection in 10.1 and is a pattern in 10.2
I think I meant the option to dis/enable 2nd level menu's....Anyway, comment under this is right. Obsolete discussion. Closed. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Onsdag 23 august 2006 00:43 skrev Steve Barnhart:
First of all having what seems to be so many different ways to manage packages is becomming ridiculous and I'm hoping something's going to be done to standardize on one. Syncronizing all of them has to be crazy.
I won't comment on the backend integration stuff - but as a user you have three interfaces: YaST-qt (advanced), zen (simple) and rug (cli). Ubuntu has more or less the same - apt-get (cli), synaptic (adavanced) and their "add/remove software"-thingy (simple).
and Finally, and this is my big peeve. FIX THE FREAKIN MENUS! The organization takes WAY too much time and maybe it won't matter if slab is integrated but we do not need categories and then ANOTHER category
Having two levels of categories is a must. I have ~20 Internet-apps - if they weren't put into subcategories it would be a complete mess like most Windows menus are. Besides if you stayed current with SUSE news you'd know that Novell have developed the SLED gnome-main-menu thingy for people like yourself - and the good people at SUSE are working on a similiar menu for KDE based on usability testing and what not.
I know 10.1 was a bad apple, but hopefully this stuff is vastly cleared up.
To my recollection the menus and amount of apps on 10.1 was exactly the same on previous releases. None of your criticism except the package management frontends are 10.1 specific. Except for two webbrowsers, I don't have more than one app that does the same thing on a standard install. And seamonkey is not installed by default. I'd hate to see SUSE turn into Ubuntu. If Ubuntu with SUSE polish is what you want I think you should join the Ubuntu mailinglists and suggest to them that they polish their distro more. I like about SUSE that functionality is a higher priority than not confusing already confused people - which I consider an impossible task anyway. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (6)
-
Adrian Schröter -
Azerion -
Martin Schlander -
Stanislav Visnovsky -
Stephan Kulow -
Steve Barnhart