On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Martin Schlander wrote:-

Den Thursday 19 July 2007 19:46:16 skrev David Bolt:

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No mention of the normal CD ISOs, nor the alpha5_alpha6 delta ISOs, being released. Are there plans to create and release the normal CD ISOs?

See the transscript of yesterday's status meeting:

http://en.opensuse.org/Meetings/Status_Meeting_2007-07-18/transcript#St atus_Distribution

There was a status meeting yesterday? I didn't see any mention of that in announce otherwise I'd have tried to be there. However. After reading the transcript, it does explain things a bit. I do have a feeling that there are going to be quite a few people that weren't there to say they'd like the CDs that will miss them, especially those that downloaded the alpha5 CDs[0], and I include myself in that group. [0] Purely out of curiosity, I know it's difficult to check how much had been transferred via FTP or HTTP, without making a little more work for the maintainers of the mirrors, but did anyone look to see just how much they had been downloaded over bittorrent? I can see that I've seeded almost 28GB, and there are likely to be others that have seeded much more than I have. Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3a5 32bit --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007, Stephan Kulow wrote:-

I'm sure there are people having used them. But we feel that one CD installs are more useful to more people. I guess having to throw away the CDs and not having deltas available is a big hit, but you seem to have no bandwidth problems :)

For uploads, I have no known limit, apart from the maximum outbound bandwidth, and I'd have probably seeded more if I hadn't restricted it to 10KB/s. However, in common with almost all UK ISPs, my downloads are "capped"[0]. My ISP is actually pretty generous and allow a download of 60GB per rolling 30 day period before they restricted the download rate to little more than dial-up speeds. Other UK users aren't going to be quite so lucky. The only change this will make for me is to remove the need for further development of makeSUSEdvd, since there's almost no need for it any more[1]. [0] They don't call it a cap, preferring to hide it under "fair usage" terms allowing them to claim they provide an unlimited service. Anyway, that's all beside the point, and totally OT, so I'll shut up about that now before I start ranting. [1] It's still going to be useful to add extra packages/patterns and remove unwanted (non-OSS?) packages/patterns, as well as adding extra, third party, repositories. Regards, David Bolt -- Member of Team Acorn checking nodes at 100 Mnodes/s: www.distributed.net RISC OS 3.11 | SUSE 10.0 32bit | SUSE 10.1 32bit | openSUSE 10.2 32bit RISC OS 3.6 | SUSE 10.0 64bit | SUSE 10.1 64bit | openSUSE 10.2 64bit TOS 4.02 | SUSE 9.3 32bit | | openSUSE 10.3a5 32bit --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

* Stephan Kulow [2007-07-20 10:58]:

Am Donnerstag 19 Juli 2007 schrieb David Bolt:

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[1] It's still going to be useful to add extra packages/patterns and remove unwanted (non-OSS?) packages/patterns, as well as adding extra, third party, repositories.

Actually this is very likely to be the goal of further releases: make the CD the installation medium of first choice and provide the DVD as collection of repositories and extra patterns.

So you have to download and burn *two* media every time you want a real system which has more than a few KDE OR GNOME applications? Thanks, Bernhard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 7/20/07, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am Freitag 20 Juli 2007 schrieb Bernhard Walle:

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* Stephan Kulow [2007-07-20 10:58]:

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Am Donnerstag 19 Juli 2007 schrieb David Bolt:

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[1] It's still going to be useful to add extra packages/patterns and remove unwanted (non-OSS?) packages/patterns, as well as adding extra, third party, repositories.

Actually this is very likely to be the goal of further releases: make the CD the installation medium of first choice and provide the DVD as collection of repositories and extra patterns.

So you have to download and burn *two* media every time you want a real system which has more than a few KDE OR GNOME applications?

Yes. The assumption I have is that most people installing have no problem in being online during installation. And those[1] that would like to avoid it, burn the DVD.

Note, that I'm sharing with you my blue prints. There are no concrete plans.

Greetings, Stephan [1] People buying the box will have the DVD and people being fine with a default install don't have the problem anyway.

I do have a strong protest. I'm offliner, and therefore for SUSE to fulfill my needs, *all* the packages *must* be available from offline media, such as DVDs. I have also opened a feature-request to add a second DVD to represent full OS. (not just part of it, as it currently happens with 1 DVD) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=263606 Novell people, and some of the community disagreed with my stance, while others supported this idea. Currently openSUSE fulfilsl my needs at only 50% (only half of the packages available on the standard DVD), and if the downloadbale media will become CD, then SUSE will fulfill my needs at only 10% - which is terrible. As openSUSE is the community distro, I ask openSUSE developers to fulfill needs of both the online community (1CD net-install) and the offliner community (people who like to install from DVDs, even if we have broadband) - and our needs are Full Distro on several DVDs. Debian fulfills both requirements fully - openSUSE tries to. Please don't start a flame-war, but rather look around and see how can we, as openSUSE community, to address the needs of our offline Susers ? -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Bernhard Walle writes:

* Stephan Kulow [2007-07-20 10:58]:

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Am Donnerstag 19 Juli 2007 schrieb David Bolt:

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[1] It's still going to be useful to add extra packages/patterns and remove unwanted (non-OSS?) packages/patterns, as well as adding extra, third party, repositories.

Actually this is very likely to be the goal of further releases: make the CD the installation medium of first choice and provide the DVD as collection of repositories and extra patterns.

So you have to download and burn *two* media every time you want a real system which has more than a few KDE OR GNOME applications?

No - it's just an option. The ftp repository is always available... Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Am Freitag 20 Juli 2007 schrieb Darryl Gregorash:

On 07/20/2007 02:58 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Am Donnerstag 19 Juli 2007 schrieb David Bolt:

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[1] It's still going to be useful to add extra packages/patterns and remove unwanted (non-OSS?) packages/patterns, as well as adding extra, third party, repositories.

Actually this is very likely to be the goal of further releases: make the CD the installation medium of first choice and provide the DVD as collection of repositories and extra patterns.

IMO this will be a big mistake. Installation should be, must be, made a simple as possible, and that implies the user should be presented with as few physical media as possible. If I buy the commercial box, the complete distribution should be included in it -- OSS packages, non-OSS packages, as well as all the sources -- all of it on, as I said, as few physical media as possible. If I download the images instead, I should be able to end up with the same set of 3 DVDs, and should not have to burn a bunch of (soon to be obsolete?) CDs that contain a minuscule fraction of the total distribution. If that is what I wanted, I would fetch just a single, much smaller, image, and do an ftp installation.

Yeah, you either misunderstood or didn't read: _the_ CD is the installation medium - the vast majority of software is provided either by a DVD or ftp. Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2007-07-20 at 14:05 -0600, Darryl Gregorash wrote:

On 07/20/2007 08:20 AM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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<snip>

Yeah, you either misunderstood or didn't read: _the_ CD is the installation medium - the vast majority of software is provided either by a DVD or ftp. Yeah, I did read: you are saying I will need to use more than one disc to install a basic system, with just OSS software on it -- unless, of course, the DVD will be bootable, in which case the CD is superfluous.

The DVD is bootable. Cheers, Magnus --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday 19 July 2007 20:50:48 David Bolt wrote:

There was a status meeting yesterday? I didn't see any mention of that in announce otherwise I'd have tried to be there. However. After reading

The reminder was a bit earlier posted than usual, already on Monday. :-)

I do have a feeling that there are going to be quite a few people that weren't there to say they'd like the CDs that will miss them, especially

Be sure feedback received elsewhere like on this list will be also observed. Bye, Steve --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org