Re: [opensuse-factory] RC1
On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 20:40 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
z wrote:
[snip]
Don't know, if it related, but on my intel-965 screensavers doesn't start. Test preview works, but automatically they can't start (all that happens - display image freeze. if i move mouse, it defreezes again)
Apparently, 11.1 will release without proper support for the i965 chipset, which is a BIG mistake, IMHO, simply because there are so many laptops with this chipset in use and still being sold by Dell and others with it! MANY Dell sold in Europe and part of Asia with this chipset AND Linux preloaded.....I think the model was an Inspiron 1520n.
I don't have an Intel GFX card but yes if that is happening it is a big mistake. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone responsible for fixing this 'big picture' stuff, or maybe they're only interested in SLED. Even though OpenSuSE keeps making big strides with many things many of these 'Mistakes' are letting the distribution down making it not worth even considering for some people. Imagine if you had only ever tried 11.1, you would go off and tell your friends it didn't even support an intel 965 chip. I for one am looking round at other distro's, I don't want to move from OpenSuSE and I remain committed to it but there are a few things being done that just seem silly to me and not clever business at all. If I'm looking around, so must others be and I'd really like to avoid that cause OpenSuSE has soooo much more potential than other distro's. Q
Fred
-- "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson, 1802
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Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Quentin Jackson:
I don't have an Intel GFX card but yes if that is happening it is a big mistake. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone responsible for fixing this 'big picture' stuff, or maybe they're only interested in SLED. Even though OpenSuSE keeps making big strides with many things many of these 'Mistakes' are letting the distribution down making it not worth even considering for some people. Imagine if you had only ever tried 11.1, you would go off and tell your friends it didn't even support an intel 965 chip.
Hi Quentin, You must have different kind of friends than I have. If I tell mine that the 3d performance for an intel 3 numbers chip is not as good as before, they would most likely say "hmm? intel what?" Seriously: as you seem to know the details of clever business, perhaps you can help out here. We have two options at the moment: 1. skip 11.1 release and publish 11.2 in about 8 months hoping that Intel got their drivers ready to support all their chips correctly. 2. release 11.1 and basically document that all intel 3 number chips (for certain 3 numbers only of course) have to skip 11.1 and wait for 11.2 in about half a year. What's the choice you prefer? You seem to advocate option 1. Greetings, Stephan P.S. And if you think my mail is unfriendly, read yours again. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Quentin Jackson:
I don't have an Intel GFX card but yes if that is happening it is a big mistake. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone responsible for fixing this 'big picture' stuff, or maybe they're only interested in SLED. Even though OpenSuSE keeps making big strides with many things many of these 'Mistakes' are letting the distribution down making it not worth even considering for some people. Imagine if you had only ever tried 11.1, you would go off and tell your friends it didn't even support an intel 965 chip.
Hi Quentin,
You must have different kind of friends than I have. If I tell mine that the 3d performance for an intel 3 numbers chip is not as good as before, they would most likely say "hmm? intel what?"
Seriously: as you seem to know the details of clever business, perhaps you can help out here. We have two options at the moment: 1. skip 11.1 release and publish 11.2 in about 8 months hoping that Intel got their drivers ready to support all their chips correctly. 2. release 11.1 and basically document that all intel 3 number chips (for certain 3 numbers only of course) have to skip 11.1 and wait for 11.2 in about half a year.
What's the choice you prefer? You seem to advocate option 1.
Stephan, Intel released the code, no? I believe they did, and if so, why hasen't Novell simply fixed the drivers? If that isn't possible, then why not make a previous driver work properly? After all, these chips were well supported in openSUSE 11.0. "Dumping" on a whole lot of users ISN'T the answer! Fred -- "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly -- and for the same reason." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Fred A. Miller:
Stephan, Intel released the code, no? I believe they did, and if so, why hasen't Novell simply fixed the drivers? If that isn't possible, then why not make a previous driver work properly? After all, these chips were well supported in openSUSE 11.0. "Dumping" on a whole lot of users ISN'T the answer!
You oversimplify the complexity of drivers development _a lot_. You can exchange Novell your above questions with Fred A.: Why hasn't Fred A. simply fixed the drivers? It's open! Novell knows about intel drivers about as much as Fred A. Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Hi, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Novell knows about intel drivers about as much as Fred A.
Well Novell knows a little more than that and thats what we are investing (read we do as much as we can). Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Henne Vogelsang:
Hi,
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Novell knows about intel drivers about as much as Fred A.
Well Novell knows a little more than that and thats what we are investing (read we do as much as we can).
I said "about". Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Henne Vogelsang wrote:
Hi,
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Novell knows about intel drivers about as much as Fred A.
Well Novell knows a little more than that and thats what we are investing (read we do as much as we can).
Henne, my concern is not so much for myself.....I can continue to use 11.0 and the same for all my clients who have those Intel chipsets, but for the black eye that openSUSE and Novell WILL get from newbies once 11.1 releases. NONE of you nor us need that kind of bad PR. This isn't a small issue, ONLY because there are so many laptops with those chips in use, and STILL being sold in new laptops. The same it true of wifi, even with an Intel 3945 chipset, a solid connection in 11.0 that NEVER dropped, NOW does.....frequently. And, there have been a number of other reported problems. I'll test RC2 to see if that is any better. Understand, we all want 11.1 to succeed, but we're NOT fond of answers that are snide and basically tell us, "Oh well...it's not our problem, so you'll have to live with it." No, we don't. Fred -- "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly -- and for the same reason." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Fred A. Miller:
Stephan, Intel released the code, no? I believe they did, and if so, why hasen't Novell simply fixed the drivers? If that isn't possible, then why not make a previous driver work properly? After all, these chips were well supported in openSUSE 11.0. "Dumping" on a whole lot of users ISN'T the answer!
You oversimplify the complexity of drivers development _a lot_. You can exchange Novell your above questions with Fred A.: Why hasn't Fred A. simply fixed the drivers? It's open! Novell knows about intel drivers about as much as Fred A.
Ridiculous. I don't write code, Novell does, and has a GOOD relationship with Intel. If the chipsets in question were well supported in 11.0, then they should be in 11.1. Fred -- "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly -- and for the same reason." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 04:43:52AM -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Quentin Jackson:
I don't have an Intel GFX card but yes if that is happening it is a big mistake. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone responsible for fixing this 'big picture' stuff, or maybe they're only interested in SLED. Even though OpenSuSE keeps making big strides with many things many of these 'Mistakes' are letting the distribution down making it not worth even considering for some people. Imagine if you had only ever tried 11.1, you would go off and tell your friends it didn't even support an intel 965 chip.
Hi Quentin,
You must have different kind of friends than I have. If I tell mine that the 3d performance for an intel 3 numbers chip is not as good as before, they would most likely say "hmm? intel what?"
Seriously: as you seem to know the details of clever business, perhaps you can help out here. We have two options at the moment: 1. skip 11.1 release and publish 11.2 in about 8 months hoping that Intel got their drivers ready to support all their chips correctly. 2. release 11.1 and basically document that all intel 3 number chips (for certain 3 numbers only of course) have to skip 11.1 and wait for 11.2 in about half a year.
What's the choice you prefer? You seem to advocate option 1.
Stephan, Intel released the code, no? I believe they did, and if so, why hasen't Novell simply fixed the drivers?
Pointers to the "fixed" drivers would be appreciated. I'm still waiting for a solid report about what you are referring to, with a bugzilla number. Without that, this all comes across as pointless ranting... thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Greg KH:
Pointers to the "fixed" drivers would be appreciated.
I'm still waiting for a solid report about what you are referring to, with a bugzilla number. Without that, this all comes across as pointless ranting...
We're talking https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18389 Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 05:27:05PM +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Greg KH:
Pointers to the "fixed" drivers would be appreciated.
I'm still waiting for a solid report about what you are referring to, with a bugzilla number. Without that, this all comes across as pointless ranting...
We're talking https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18389
So it's just a performance issue, not a "this hardware doesn't work" type issue, right? That's not that big of a deal. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Greg KH wrote:
On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 05:27:05PM +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Am Donnerstag 04 Dezember 2008 schrieb Greg KH:
Pointers to the "fixed" drivers would be appreciated.
I'm still waiting for a solid report about what you are referring to, with a bugzilla number. Without that, this all comes across as pointless ranting...
We're talking https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18389
So it's just a performance issue, not a "this hardware doesn't work" type issue, right? That's not that big of a deal.
It might not be a big deal to you, but it sure is for my clients! Fred -- "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly -- and for the same reason." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thursday, 2008-12-04 at 08:30 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:
Seriously: as you seem to know the details of clever business, perhaps you can help out here. We have two options at the moment: 1. skip 11.1 release and publish 11.2 in about 8 months hoping that Intel got their drivers ready to support all their chips correctly. 2. release 11.1 and basically document that all intel 3 number chips (for certain 3 numbers only of course) have to skip 11.1 and wait for 11.2 in about half a year.
What's the choice you prefer? You seem to advocate option 1.
If you intend to do '2', there is nothing about "intel" in the release notes. At least not in the file we just translated. :-? - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkk9fLoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VjJgCfVSNJszUPww0r9hE+u2OmF396 31cAn3Mp4glKhIojsTtKZ4EeI61CjJA6 =t6b3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Quentin Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 2008-12-03 at 20:40 -0500, Fred A. Miller wrote:
z wrote:
[snip]
Don't know, if it related, but on my intel-965 screensavers doesn't start. Test preview works, but automatically they can't start (all that happens - display image freeze. if i move mouse, it defreezes again) Apparently, 11.1 will release without proper support for the i965 chipset, which is a BIG mistake, IMHO, simply because there are so many laptops with this chipset in use and still being sold by Dell and others with it! MANY Dell sold in Europe and part of Asia with this chipset AND Linux preloaded.....I think the model was an Inspiron 1520n.
I don't have an Intel GFX card but yes if that is happening it is a big mistake. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anyone responsible for fixing this 'big picture' stuff, or maybe they're only interested in SLED. Even though OpenSuSE keeps making big strides with many things many of these 'Mistakes' are letting the distribution down making it not worth even considering for some people. Imagine if you had only ever tried 11.1, you would go off and tell your friends it didn't even support an intel 965 chip.
Yes, many will do just that! If it isn't fixed before release, I won't use it on my laptop, nor will MANY of my clients be using it either on their laptops because they have the same chipset in their Dells and other make computers. KDE 4.* not being ready for prime time yet isn't a problem with 11.1 because we still have 3.5 shipping with it, but with graphic chip and wifi problems, it's not looking good.
I for one am looking round at other distro's, I don't want to move from OpenSuSE and I remain committed to it but there are a few things being done that just seem silly to me and not clever business at all. If I'm looking around, so must others be and I'd really like to avoid that cause OpenSuSE has soooo much more potential than other distro's.
I agree and I'm not looking to switch either, but I haven't ruled it out. Fred -- "Politicians and diapers need to be changed regularly -- and for the same reason." -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Fred A. Miller schreef:
[snip].... and wifi problems, it's not looking good.
wifi works in 11.1rc1....
I agree and I'm not looking to switch either, but I haven't ruled it out.
Fred
-- Enjoy your time around, Oddball (M9.) (Now or never...) OS: Linux 2.6.27.7-8-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: oddball@AMD64x2-sfn1 Systeem: openSUSE 11.2 Alpha 0 (x86_64) KDE: 4.1.3 (KDE 4.1.3) "release 4.6" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
participants (7)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Fred A. Miller -
Greg KH -
Henne Vogelsang -
Oddball -
Quentin Jackson -
Stephan Kulow