Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Ken Schneider:

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Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Hi!

Not sure there is a lot to status report, but I try:

- the number of incoming bugs is growing, for some components almost dramatically. So much time is spent in screening at the moment. For a glimpse, check http://tinyurl.com/2cxbto (you're very welcome to help screening duplicates) - the live CDs received heavy debugging and should be released any time soon now (both Michl and me had some post-release vacation time that delayed it) - the promo DVD is readily mastered and we hope to press quite some to give out on fairs - we are preparing a "driver update" mini ISO that people can use where the kernel on the installation medium does not work on their hardware and to fix the "repair system" function How about supplying a delta iso as well for the download DVD/cd so it can be fixed and passed on to others wanting to try openSUSE?

This would require remastering 10.3 and we want to avoid that.

How is that? Deltas are used all the time to update the alpha/beta releases, how is this different? Just curious. This would allow us to give working copies to new people without having to explain that a current release was released broken. Makes openSUSE look bad. Image _IS_ everything. Ken --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Ken Schneider:

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This would require remastering 10.3 and we want to avoid that.

How is that? Deltas are used all the time to update the alpha/beta releases, how is this different? Just curious.

When we master a new alpha, we create a delta to the last one. But this time we don't want to master a new release. We only want to provide a meaning for the few that have a problem on their hardware.

If I understand this statement correctly, only a few people experienced the inability to utilize the repair module on the install disk? That is good news indeed. I thought 100% of the people that had an inability to boot their installed system and therefore unable to reach the released patch to the repair program would fail to be able to use the install disk to repair their installation sufficiently to boot sufficiently to be able to reach the patched repair program. If as you say, this broken installation disk only affects a few people, then I can understand the attitude of 'why bother'.

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This would allow us to give working copies to new people without having to explain that a current release was released broken.

Makes openSUSE look bad. Image _IS_ everything.

Then don't explain it. If image is everything, don't pollute it with facts.

Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

I know publishing an new set of *.iso files with some of the fixes would inconvenience a few people at openSuSE.org and do nothing for SuSE's reputation. The facts are that important parts of 10.3 were released broken and the fixes can't be distributed by 'updates' unless those updates are included in the boxes people are now receiving in the mailbox...and it doesn't appear that they are. Richard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Boyd Lynn Gerber:

I do not know anyone that is able to use the repair system. I am talking about aprox... 200 users. This to me is a major pita. I really think that we should get a delta. I really need to create new iso's. I am getting pestered because of the repair system.

Hi Boyd, Hmm, maybe I don't know what your background is. But why do these 200 users you know want to use the repair system? We might consider doing a delta later on, but for now it's more important to give people a tool in the hand, so you can continue with the DVD you have. Because people who bought a openSUSE box don't have much use of a delta.

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I know publishing an new set of *.iso files with some of the fixes would inconvenience a few people at openSuSE.org and do nothing for SuSE's reputation. The facts are that important parts of 10.3 were released broken and the fixes can't be distributed by 'updates' unless those updates are included in the boxes people are now receiving in the mailbox...and it doesn't appear that they are.

This is the general opion I am seeing. I could not upgrade/install 6 systems with the download DVD. They install/upgrade fine with the 10.2, but 10.3 is really boarked. I do have 2 out of 10 system running 10.3.

And you created bug reports about all of them during the beta phase? Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu November 1 2007 06:56, Richard Creighton wrote:

Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Boyd Lynn Gerber:

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I do not know anyone that is able to use the repair system. I am talking about aprox... 200 users. This to me is a major pita. I really think that we should get a delta. I really need to create new iso's. I am getting pestered because of the repair system.

Hi Boyd,

Hmm, maybe I don't know what your background is. But why do these 200 users you know want to use the repair system?

We might consider doing a delta later on, but for now it's more important to give people a tool in the hand, so you can continue with the DVD you have. Because people who bought a openSUSE box don't have much use of a delta.

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I know publishing an new set of *.iso files with some of the fixes would inconvenience a few people at openSuSE.org and do nothing for SuSE's reputation. The facts are that important parts of 10.3 were released broken and the fixes can't be distributed by 'updates' unless those updates are included in the boxes people are now receiving in the mailbox...and it doesn't appear that they are.

This is the general opion I am seeing. I could not upgrade/install 6 systems with the download DVD. They install/upgrade fine with the 10.2, but 10.3 is really boarked. I do have 2 out of 10 system running 10.3.

And you created bug reports about all of them during the beta phase?

Greetings, Stephan

Stephan, You *know* I did....and many are still open. And the one closed regarding the repair issue on the ISO on the release was closed with a rather expedient 'we'll release a patch' rather than 'oops, let's replace the iso before too many people have downloaded it and it spreads'. I thought the delays in delivering the boxed sets might be because the paying customers at least, might be getting the benefit of a corrected set of install DVDs, but from what I can tell, that didn't happen either. Shame!

Will the new Live DVD of 10.3 contain the patched repair system? That would solve the problem I guess, since the rest of the packages will be compatible with 10.3-GM and for a repair there si nothing better than a live DVD. -- Carlos FL Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my disk? --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag 01 November 2007 schrieb Richard Creighton:

Stephan, You *know* I did....and many are still open. And the one closed regarding the repair issue on the ISO on the release was closed with a rather expedient 'we'll release a patch' rather than 'oops, let's replace the iso before too many people have downloaded it and it spreads'. I thought the delays in delivering the boxed sets might be because the paying customers at least, might be getting the benefit of a corrected set of install DVDs, but from what I can tell, that didn't happen either. Shame!

The boxed sets are done at the same time we upload the DVDs to the mirrors. And what you don't understand: we simply can't afford to replace the ISOs for every bug. What we can do though is providing a driver update ISO to be used in addition to the DVD (no matter if boxed or downloaded) and that's what we'll do (as soon as I get rid of this *** cold that keeps me off the office). Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Boyd Lynn Gerber schreef:

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Boyd Lynn Gerber:

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I do not know anyone that is able to use the repair system. I am talking about aprox... 200 users. This to me is a major pita. I really think that we should get a delta. I really need to create new iso's. I am getting pestered because of the repair system. Hmm, maybe I don't know what your background is. But why do these 200 users you know want to use the repair system?

I have been using linux since the very first public release. I dable in all Linux/Unix variants. I do a lot of support. I handle all the really strange weird problems that no one else has solutions. The problem is it takes time to find and know what exactly the problem is, and to either come up with a fix or to report it and hope that some one will be able to fix it.

They have had problems with different things. Some kernel upgrades have made the system unbootable. So have had/experienced known bugs and have needed to fix their systems. Personally, I have had a lot of strange errors with 10.3 that I have not had with 10.2. The bigest problem is finding a way to replicate them. Many, I have not been able to replicate. In the past I would just have them use the repair system to fix things. As this currently does not work, I have to go to each of their locations and spend time trying to get the up and working to a state that I can work on them remotely. It has been a real big pain.

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We might consider doing a delta later on, but for now it's more important to give people a tool in the hand, so you can continue with the DVD you have. Because people who bought a openSUSE box don't have much use of a delta.

I purchased the box set. I still have not received it. I really doubt that it will work much better than the downloaded DVD. I have every client purchase a boxed set. I hope to soon get mine. I am really looking forward to the 2 DVD's. I am really glad SUSE/Novel listened to us. I have the entiry ftp tree that I am using. I still have a few systems with it that I am unable to install/upgrade. I have not had time to find out why. I talked with people on IRC and they have no idea's. So there is not a bug report because I do not know the cause.

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This is the general opion I am seeing. I could not upgrade/install 6 systems with the download DVD. They install/upgrade fine with the 10.2, but 10.3 is really boarked. I do have 2 out of 10 system running 10.3.

And you created bug reports about all of them during the beta phase?

Yes, but many were just closed, with not enough detail. I still do not know what is causing them. I gave what I could. I did not dare use the beta on my production systems. I have to admit, I did not do as much with this beta. I have been under a lot of stress, to get some projects out that have very tight time lines. I am self employed/own the company.

Thanks,

-- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047

Hi Boyd, I can realy feel with you.. As i experienced it, went the first beta's too well. the second was realy great, and updating online was a dream. Every thing went well until the GM. Than came the Kernel and the Xorg debacle... But somewhere during beta3 the devs began altering the system.. The ones that had beta2, and updated from there had a realy fantastic system, allmost everything worked without any problem. After the kernel (grub broken, unable to fix) and xorg (no x-server, you know what that means..sax2 not able to come up with an own server..) i had to reinstall, so i downloaded the dvd, in the understanding the system was ok. But that was a mistake! It looked like a total different system, than i had been testing... I have still problems that i can not solve. But just relax, things go the way they do.. Nobody wants a screwed system, so i guess all happened unintentional. I think if the devs themselves are going to use the GM-dvd, they will find out what the troubles are ;-), and understand us, and are willing to fix the probs. In the meantime we look at KDE4, (starts realy to look good, and had also problems because of the difference between the factory and GM) and 10.2... I wish you the power to continue, and to lift up the pressure, good luck. - -- Have a nice day, M9. Now, is the only time that exists. OS: Linux 2.6.22.5-31-default x86_64 Huidige gebruiker: monkey9@tribal-sfn2 Systeem: openSUSE 10.3 (x86_64) KDE: 3.5.8 "release 21.2" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4-svn0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHKhV6X5/X5X6LpDgRAvbQAKC7NS2spOYoFLS2TyD+HOonJ052SQCgv/JI 6XncRap/1twFDpxIACJ4vac= =8fUj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Roberto Mannai:

Hi Stephan, why does the report start from november 2006? Which products are you considering? I cannot understand what are you measuring; open bug of course grow in the time; it would be more meaningful to show the ratio between open / closed in each component, and resolution type.

It's not meaningful to me, no. What would you mean to prove with such a report? What _is_ a problem for us is open bug numbers. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Roberto Mannai:

As a user and if searching which distro to choose, I would be interested to see how many bugs are closed for that distro, so seeing how much support is given.

Those users will hardly read opensuse-factory I'd assume. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Mittwoch 31 Oktober 2007 schrieb Roberto Mannai:

I think so :).

So are you measuring the delta Y (size of bugs open) between X and (X - 1) of time?

I just let bugzilla plot the number of open bugs over the days. Greetings, Stephan --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org