On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 3:28 AM, Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

change the kde timezone results in SIGSEGV of both systemsettings5 and the policykit agent.

This was also changed, IIRC, and will take advantage of systemd features if available (runtime checking, so no compile dependency).

This crash was unrelated... I installed phonon4qt5-backend-vlc 0.8.2-1.2 package and then.. everything started to crash ;-) removing it for now corrected the problem. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 13 of March 2015 04:35:26 Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

- Upgrade experience [3]: Was the upgrade from the 4.x packages smooth? Did anything break?

(I just tried tumbleweed packages) ...

- the display manager service now dominated boot time, spending a breathtaking one and half minutes to finish. :-|

sr#291087

Am Dienstag, 17. März 2015, 09:29:16 schrieb Baptiste Grenier:

Sorry to know so little, but what is sr short for?

Is it https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291087 ?

And if yes why is this bug non public/accessible to all logged-in users?

"You are not authorized to access bug #291087."

Hi Baptiste, I guess SR is short for submit request and has nothing to do with a bugnumber the bug you mentioned is an nearly 8 year old Bug for SLES/OES and as such by default privat. Stefan

On Tue, Mar 17, 2015 at 11:29 AM, Baptiste Grenier wrote:

Le lundi 16 mars 2015, 20:47:21 šumski a écrit :

...

...

- the display manager service now dominated boot time, spending a breathtaking one and half minutes to finish. :-|

sr#291087

Hi,

Sorry to know so little, but what is sr short for?

https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/291087

Is it https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=291087 ?

And if yes why is this bug non public/accessible to all logged-in users?

"You are not authorized to access bug #291087."

Best, Baptiste

-- Baptiste Grenier \,,/_[-_-]_\,,/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Neil Rickert wrote:

work. So evidently some of the KDE4 applications really are needed. It

Just for clarification: it is not recommended to go to a pure KF5 setup. There's a lot that hasn't been ported, so for a while (I wager at least one more year) we're expecting to have a mixed kdelibs4 / KF5 setup.

might help if there were a pattern for Plasma 5 applications to pull in what is available and what is still needed from KDE4.

Can you file a bug report mentioning what was missing from the pattern, so that it can be adjusted? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Ken Schneider - openSUSE wrote:

Then KF5 needs to be an _option_ for "at least a year". That way it will be more stable and the community will happily test it for you.

It's been in the repos for quite a while.

Until the clock displays the right time KF5 will not be loaded on any of

KF5 are the libraries, this is about Plasma 5. You can run KF5 apps in a 4.x workspace. As I said elsewhere in the thread, the issue has been fixed *already*.

my machines. I pity the people trying out openSuSE for the first time and finding out the clock can't even display the right time.

Did you also read the bottom of the post on feedback? This is not helping much, sorry.

You asked for testers and right away you received valuable feedback. Fix these problems and ask again, I'm sure you will get more feedback again

"Fix these problems". Some are fixed already, some need reports upstream, some I can't even reproduce myself (long SDDM start up time). That is the point of testing, and testing *before the switch*, the "KDE team" is 3 people from the community with limited time, there is only so much we can do. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 13.03.15 Patrick Shanahan wrote: [the openSUSE KDE Team]

Your (collective) work is much appreciated and that appreciation is not announced with enough frequency or impact.

In the light of the recent plasma 5.3 change I wanted to dig out this very important statement. So thanks, KDE-Team! Johannes -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 Comment: Using GnuPG with SeaMonkey - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlVbDSoACgkQzi3gQ/xETbLIWQCcCXK4UEROhKiDSVLeLGDISlJs XcwAn2oB3SiMQznTmbpCoXFH1S0UtUTU =su0/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Neil Rickert schrieb:

While logged into Plasma5, I saved a session with Konsole at the bottom right and showing on all desktops. After logout and login, the resumed saved session has Konsole at the top left and only on one desktop. I can live with that, but it seems like a bug. I'm not sure if it is a KDE bug or an opensuse bug. Note that this is konsole from KDE4.

On the plasma5 testing I did so far, I never saw any window restore to the same desktop as it was on when I had logged out. This is probably the largest blocker to me using using plasma5 everywhere right now. KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Robert Kaiser wrote:

the largest blocker to me using using plasma5 everywhere right now.

FYI, this is the upstream bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=341930 -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Franklin Wang wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

When the KDE can be robust and stable enough for enterprise users?

KDE3 is pretty good, KDE4 now too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.6°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Le vendredi 13 mars 2015, 15:17:13 Luca Beltrame a écrit :

Baptiste Grenier wrote:

...

At first I tried to install all the *5 apps that were available but I had to switch back to kate (kate4) as kdevelop4 has a requirement on kate and

...

kate5 does not provide it: This is needed for the konsole part needed by KDevelop to show the terminal. We already have splitted the part from the actual application in Tumbleweed (look for konsole5-part and konsole-part), but it looks like KDevelop was not adjusted for it. Can you file a bug report on bugzilla.opensuse.org?

Here it is: https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=922400 There is no tumbleweed Product so I added it to the Factory product.

...

I also add some segfaults when using kate5 and the vi-like keys. (everything is OK with kate 4), but I didn't test the latest kate5 builds.

Please report any reproducible crash upstream.

Will do if it is still the case when I will have kate5 back :)

...

do not receive new mails, I have to often close kmail, and stop akonadi unsing akonadictl, it is quite annoying.

Those are probably unrelated, there's no KF5 version of KMail and won't be at least until 2016, according to upstream plans.

OK, I wonder if my problem is more with akonadi or with kmail, I will check the forums/bug tracker to see if I find something relevant.

...

I also had some troubles with ksshaskpass5 and kwalletd5, ksshaskpass5 was not able to interact with kwalletd5 (it was asking for the ssh key

I can't reproduce. Can you try cleaning your ~/.cache directory? I had bad files there that caused all sort of issues.

Done, and I re-installed ksshaskpass5 but it is still not able to interact with kwallet, I always get an error when providing the kwallet password when ksshaskpass wants to access it, sort of : 'Error code 9, read error, password could be inccorect'. Even if the kdewallet wallet is already open on behalf of amarok. I am using this ~/bin/ksshaskpass-ssh-add.sh script: #!/bin/sh export SSH_ASKPASS=/usr/lib/ssh/ksshaskpass /usr/bin/ssh-add

...

I also check the systemd-analyze output and sddm (OpenSuse branding) it

1min 30.224s display-manager.service

Known, but I'm not sure what the cause is. Can you try switching to the - upstream branding in sddm? IIRC it will not cause that long startup.

...

I did just installed the upstream sddm branding but I did not yet test it.

Ok, forget what I said earlier. ;)

Here is the result with sddm-branding-upstream-0.11.0-1.2.x86_64: systemd-analyze blame | head 1min 30.059s display-manager.service 4.315s wicked.service 3.209s systemd-udev-settle.service 1.706s mnt-home.mount 292ms udisks2.service 289ms apparmor.service 277ms var-tmp.mount 273ms var-spool.mount 272ms var-opt.mount 269ms var-log.mount Not a big difference...

...

present in the KWin scripts part of the Control Center. But if I search for it using the "Get new Script" tool, it is shown as installed.

You may want to report this bug upstream.

Using the fix proposed by šumski it worked: sudo sed -i 's/plasmapkg/plasmapkg2/g' /etc/xdg/kwin*.knsrc

...

Thanks a lot of your work, congratulation for all your team, I am very happy to use Plasma5 on OpenSuse, I am eager to see it becoming the

Thanks, although most of the work is done by Raymond and Hrvoje, I kind of play the role of the PR guy. ;)

Quite a useful work :) Cheers, Baptiste -- Baptiste Grenier \,,/_[-_-]_\,,/

On Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:11, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

...

...

I can't reproduce. Can you try cleaning your ~/.cache directory? I had bad files there that caused all sort of issues.

Done, and I re-installed ksshaskpass5 but it is still not able to interact with kwallet, I always get an error when providing the kwallet password when ksshaskpass wants to access it, sort of : 'Error code 9, read error, password could be inccorect'. Even if the kdewallet wallet is already open on behalf of amarok.

I am using this ~/bin/ksshaskpass-ssh-add.sh script:

...

systemd-analyze blame | head 1min 30.059s display-manager.service

Same result here.

...

4.315s wicked.service

Wicked has not drink its coffee yet..

...

3.209s systemd-udev-settle.service

what does systemctl show -p WantedBy systemd-udev-settle.service says ? nothing should pull this unit.. it is a hack..

Correct. Hack. Work-around. Read the comments in the service file to have a inkling of "why": "less /usr/lib/systemd/system/systemd-udev-settle.service" # This service is usually not enabled by default. If enabled, it # acts as a barrier for basic.target -- so all later services will # wait for udev completely finishing its coldplug run. # # If needed, to work around broken or non-hotplug-aware services, # it might be enabled unconditionally, or pulled-in on-demand by # the services that assume a fully populated /dev at startup. It # should not be used or pulled-in ever on systems without such # legacy services running. Wicked is a pita. worse documentation than systemd, a needed learning curve that jumps from zero to infinity with the release of OSS 13.2 / SLE 12, no forewarning or broad testing in parallel to 'old-style' ifup/ifdown, even the intro of systemd was better executed. Grrr. Udev-settle is more involved with the local hardware. Try 'disable' first, if still active after next boot try 'mask'. Either your system still works fine with the next boot, or the coldplug part of udev really needs it. Or, and that is also a possibility, you have a -- quote: "broken or non-hotplug-aware service", the comments above. Your mileage may vary. - Yamaban

On Friday 13 of March 2015 15:05:27 Baptiste Grenier wrote:

Le jeudi 12 mars 2015, 20:48:15 Luca Beltrame a écrit :

...

(originally posted on opensuse-kde for initial discussion)

...

The last problem I have is that I did not succeed in installing the tiller Kwin script, neither from the GUI nor from the plasma5 branch of the git repo. To be exact, both installation did succeed but the script is not present in the KWin scripts part of the Control Center. But if I search for it using the "Get new Script" tool, it is shown as installed.

I fixed this one upstream now, will be available in 5.2.2. For the time being you can fix it by hand, by renaming 'plasmapkg' to 'plasmapkg2' in /etc/xdg/kwin*.knsrc files. Cheers, Hrvoje

* Andrei Borzenkov [03-18-15 14:06]:

В Wed, 18 Mar 2015 13:18:03 -0400 Patrick Shanahan пишет:

...

* Luca Beltrame [03-12-15 15:48]:

...

(originally posted on opensuse-kde for initial discussion)

Hello openSUSE KDE users and contributors,

This mail outlines our plans for moving towards Plasma 5 as a default desktop for the next openSUSE release, includinga tentative action plan and where help from you all is required. We do not believe on pushing changes on users without some sort of preparation, therefore this document describes the transition plan.

zypper -v dup -d zypper -v dup

update to openSUSE-20150316 doesn't complete, presently hanging on kpackage

adding a lock for kpackage only causes the next item to also hang.

What information can I add and is a bug report warranted? What to report?

ps -ft <terminal-where-dup-is-running> would be useful first step

ps -ft pts/1 UID PID PPID C STIME TTY TIME CMD paka 13566 13565 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 -bash root 13609 13566 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 su - root 13612 13609 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 -bash root 13756 13612 16 16:07 pts/1 00:00:16 zypper -v dup root 13762 13756 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 [tar] <defunct> root 13764 13756 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/zypp/plugins/commit/btrfs-defrag-plugin.py root 13765 13756 0 16:07 pts/1 00:00:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/lib/zypp/plugins/commit/snapper.py root 14559 13756 66 16:08 pts/1 00:00:45 rpm --root / --dbpath /var/lib/rpm -U --percent --noglob --force --nodeps -- /var/cache/zypp/packages/Tumbleweed.OSS/suse/x86_64/kpackage-5.8.0-1.1.x86_64.rpm tks -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Luca Beltrame [03-24-15 02:32]:

Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

Hello openSUSE KDE users and contributors,

A quick update:

1. The polls' results are disconcerting - at most 10 votes. While connect.o.o needs one to be registered to vote, I expected a little more from the active (as in contributing) oS community. 2. No solid objections have been raised during this period, so the plan will proceed forward towards having Plasma 5.3 as default in openSUSE. Of course, we still have our contingency plan (see original mail) should everything fail.

And the very negative experience that I related? You expect a ~10% failure rate (based on the poll) and little provided assistance? Me thinks plasma5 *definitely* not palatable for the masses. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 12:37:24 Mathias Homann wrote:

I have tried to use plasma5 by adding the repositories from OBS and installing plasma5-session.

On login I had the extra type "plasma5 session" in KDM, when I choose that and logged in my disk churned for a moment and I was back on the login screen... so it seems that the dependencies dont even fulfil all that is needed for a working session yet.

hence, "not quite ready in my eyes".

Hi Mathias, please report the problem @ http://bugzilla.novell.com/ with your .xsession- errors attached. Cheers, Hrvoje

cheers MH

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

And the very negative experience that I related? You expect a ~10%

In stats, that would be an "outlier", but that's beyond the point. I asked you to report a bug, this is probably a packaging error and has nothing to do with Plasma itself. Did you file it? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

With a sample size of "10", to make any decisions requires *much* presumption. An outlier may exist in a sample size of 3.

To be honest, this is the fault of the community, which is very good at being demotivating (read: flames every time one mentions systemd) but not so much when being constructive. But I digress, it's off topic and unrelated to the decision at hand.

bugs and will if you will tell me what to file. Not receiving guidance in a week, I have since reformatted the box and reinstalled TW, little

Please remember that the "KDE team" is 3 people from the community, as I stated already. And of course we all have lives. ;)

Waste of everyones time to file meaningless rants w/o some basis. Tell me what to file, "zypper didn't complete" ??

Hang during installation of kpackage would be a start. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

* Luca Beltrame [03-24-15 09:52]:

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

With a sample size of "10", to make any decisions requires *much* presumption. An outlier may exist in a sample size of 3.

To be honest, this is the fault of the community, which is very good at being demotivating (read: flames every time one mentions systemd) but not so much when being constructive. But I digress, it's off topic and unrelated to the decision at hand.

...

bugs and will if you will tell me what to file. Not receiving guidance in a week, I have since reformatted the box and reinstalled TW, little

Please remember that the "KDE team" is 3 people from the community, as I stated already. And of course we all have lives. ;)

...

Waste of everyones time to file meaningless rants w/o some basis. Tell me what to file, "zypper didn't complete" ??

Hang during installation of kpackage would be a start.

Reported against "plasma", plasmashell suggested for "plasma5" but I could not find anywhere to state "plasmashell". and component "general", no other appeared to fit version "unspecified", no other appeared to fit. https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=345528 after submitting the bug, I was able to change the product to "plasmashell" and provide ver 5.2.0 (I know it was 5.2 but 5.2.?) I really feel, this exercise you requested a waste of bug reviewers time (and mine) but ... You and the team's efforts are much appreciated, but requesting testing efforts w/o providing leadership wastes the tester's time and resources and make him very hesitant to walk that path in future times. + Causes a lot of "ranting" on the list. I am happy to test and do not mind a broken system, but leaving me for a week w/o support or suggestion with that broken system is imo criminal. I waited and finally reinstalled Tw and now there is no history past suspect memory which doesn't benefit anyone. Don't request testing w/o providing parameters that gives guidance to the testers. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.org Photo Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535 @ http://linuxcounter.net -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 13:52:08 Patrick Shanahan wrote:

* Luca Beltrame [03-24-15 08:35]:

...

Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

And the very negative experience that I related? You expect a ~10%

In stats, that would be an "outlier", but that's beyond the point.

With a sample size of "10", to make any decisions requires *much* presumption. An outlier may exist in a sample size of 3.

...

I asked you to report a bug, this is probably a packaging error and has nothing to do with Plasma itself.

Did you file it?

You asked that bugs be filed, not that I in particular do so. I do file bugs and will if you will tell me what to file. Not receiving guidance in a week, I have since reformatted the box and reinstalled TW, little records remain past the posts to this list and the relation on the wiki. Waste of everyones time to file meaningless rants w/o some basis. Tell me what to file, "zypper didn't complete" ??

Yes. And this seems completely unrelated to specific package, rather libzypp/zypper problem, or one of the stack below. Cheers, Hrvoje

Neil Rickert wrote:

At present Plasma 5 is not ready for prime time. It is cripple-ware. I'm seriously considering reinstalling Tumbleweed (and KDE4).

Did you read the whole mail that introduced this thread, in particular the last paragraph? I asked for constructive feedback. "Cripple-ware" is not constructive feedback. Bear in mind that the soon-to-be-released 5.3 version is much improved compared to the current 5.2. I wouldn't have recommended 5.3 for default if it weren't. (I'm running Plasma git master on all my machines)

(a) Keep KDE4. It works well and has many users.

There is no "KDE4" just like there's no "KDE5". This discussion only touches the workspace (Plasma Workspace 4.x) and not the applications, which will take far longer to port to the KF5 libraries (this was also stated in the original mail). If you also hop on the opensuse-kde ML archives, you'll see the results of our evaluation of the situation. Don't forget that after August the long-term support period of the 4.x workspace will end, which has important impacts on security.

(b) Provide Plasma 5, but in such a way that it can be installed alongside KDE4. Maybe that requires a separate install path for the present.

We have tried this for quite a while. Upstream does not support it at all, and for some pieces of the system (polkit helpers and agents) it's even impossible to do.

Few people are trying it, because they have seen the reports and consider it not ready.

More details (or even better: bug reports upstream or on b.o.o if they're packaging errors) would be most welcome. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 19:13:36 Graham P Davis wrote:

On Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:10:18 +0100

Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

Neil Rickert wrote:

...

At present Plasma 5 is not ready for prime time. It is cripple-ware. I'm seriously considering reinstalling Tumbleweed (and KDE4).

Did you read the whole mail that introduced this thread, in particular the last paragraph? I asked for constructive feedback. "Cripple-ware" is not constructive feedback.

Bear in mind that the soon-to-be-released 5.3 version is much improved compared to the current 5.2. I wouldn't have recommended 5.3 for default if it weren't.

Hi Graham,

The problem I had when I thought about whether to take part in this survey and which way to go is that I'd be voting on something I hadn't seen, i.e. 5.3. The state of 5.2 at the time this thread started was that it was an alpha version and, for me, completely unusable. However, with the last update it became a beta version - having a working file manager helped a lot! In respect of the progress I'm seeing, this is a lot like KDE4 which only became usable at about version 4.3.

If you have concrete issues please report them upstream or at novell bugzilla, as appropriate. Alternatively, we have also answer here if there is a concrete problem with software or packaging... (wrt dolphin, it's required by base plasma5 pattern since the beginning - if there was a bug with it, it was plasma unrelated) Cheers, Hrvoje

Luca Beltrame schrieb:

Bear in mind that the soon-to-be-released 5.3 version is much improved compared to the current 5.2. I wouldn't have recommended 5.3 for default if it weren't.

Will password-unlock from the lock screen actually work in 5.3? In the 5.2.x versions I have installed on my openSUSE 13.2 via the Frameworks5 repo, it never accepts the unlock password, so there is no way to get back from a locked screen, which is pretty bad. KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

šumski schrieb:

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 19:27:39 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

Will password-unlock from the lock screen actually work in 5.3? In the 5.2.x versions I have installed on my openSUSE 13.2 via the Frameworks5 repo, it never accepts the unlock password, so there is no way to get back from a locked screen, which is pretty bad.

It works fine since 5.0. It doesn't work fine if you have cruft in pam config (/etc/pam.d) from previous openSUSE versions...

That's surely possible. What kind of "cruft" would I be looking for? How to clean it up? Given that a lot of people will be updating and enough might have "cruft", can we somehow detect that and warn people or auto-fix it? KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

šumski schrieb:

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 20:14:03 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

šumski schrieb:

...

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 19:27:39 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

Will password-unlock from the lock screen actually work in 5.3? In the 5.2.x versions I have installed on my openSUSE 13.2 via the Frameworks5 repo, it never accepts the unlock password, so there is no way to get back from a locked screen, which is pretty bad.

It works fine since 5.0. It doesn't work fine if you have cruft in pam config (/etc/pam.d) from previous openSUSE versions...

That's surely possible. What kind of "cruft" would I be looking for? Check the above mentioned directory, you'll most likely find quite a few rpmnew files in there.

sudo rm -rf /etc/pam.d/common-* /etc/pam.d/login* and then reinstalling (forced updating) pam, pam-config, and util-linux did help.

...

How to clean it up? Given that a lot of people will be updating and enough might have "cruft", can we somehow detect that and warn people or auto-fix it?

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Offline_upgrade#Stale_configuration_files Just in case create backups of your current config.

That's not "detect and auto-fix", right? I personally know to ask here, but other people running into that will not, so I fear they will get stuck in a configuration where they could not use their system any more once they lock it or it gets automatically locked. That's bad enough that it probably warrants some work to fix it, I'd think (unfortunately I neither have time or knowledge to actually do it). KaiRo -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 6:51 PM, Robert Kaiser wrote:

Robert Kaiser schrieb:

...

šumski schrieb:

...

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 20:14:03 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

šumski schrieb:

...

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 19:27:39 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

Will password-unlock from the lock screen actually work in 5.3? In the 5.2.x versions I have installed on my openSUSE 13.2 via the Frameworks5 repo, it never accepts the unlock password, so there is no way to get back from a locked screen, which is pretty bad.

It works fine since 5.0. It doesn't work fine if you have cruft in pam config (/etc/pam.d) from previous openSUSE versions...

That's surely possible. What kind of "cruft" would I be looking for?

Check the above mentioned directory, you'll most likely find quite a few rpmnew files in there.

sudo rm -rf /etc/pam.d/common-* /etc/pam.d/login* and then reinstalling (forced updating) pam, pam-config, and util-linux did help.

As a note to whoever tries this, you need to reinstall any package that (installs pam modules and) puts stuff into the pam configs after this, most importantly systemd.

Wouldn't the "right" way to handle this is to look for .rpmnew files, diff them against their non-rpmnew counterparts, and merge them instead of reinstalling? Or, wouldn't deleting and reinstalling be equivalent to moving all .rpmnew files into their non-rpmnew counterparts (with backing up if desired)? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

What's the workaroung I should use?

No workaround, it's fixed in Plasma 5.3. According to the schedules, it should be out approximately in one month from now. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Friday 27 of March 2015 15:37:56 Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

2015-03-25 18:51 GMT-03:00 Robert Kaiser :

...

Robert Kaiser schrieb:

...

šumski schrieb:

...

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 20:14:03 Robert Kaiser wrote:

...

šumski schrieb:

...

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 19:27:39 Robert Kaiser wrote: > Will password-unlock from the lock screen actually work in 5.3? In > the 5.2.x versions I have installed on my openSUSE 13.2 via the > Frameworks5 > repo, it never accepts the unlock password, so there is no way to > get back from a locked screen, which is pretty bad.

It works fine since 5.0. It doesn't work fine if you have cruft in pam config (/etc/pam.d) from previous openSUSE versions...

That's surely possible. What kind of "cruft" would I be looking for?

Check the above mentioned directory, you'll most likely find quite a few rpmnew files in there.

sudo rm -rf /etc/pam.d/common-* /etc/pam.d/login* and then reinstalling (forced updating) pam, pam-config, and util-linux did help.

As a note to whoever tries this, you need to reinstall any package that (installs pam modules and) puts stuff into the pam configs after this, most importantly systemd.

Hi,

Yesterday I installed the patterns-openSUSE-plasma5_basis package and switched to Plasma5, so far so good, but I got this lock screen problem as well.

What's the workaroung I should use?

If you're having troubles unlocking, and you've upgraded from some earlier openSUSE release, best would be imo to merge the changes in rpmnew files into the config files. https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Offline_upgrade#Stale_configuration_files Not sure to which issue Luca referred to, if it's the focus problem, the fix has already been submitted to Tumbleweed (not sure if published already though) Cheers, Hrvoje

Regards,

Luiz

Robert Kaiser wrote:

I *really* hope someone will find out what the actual thing is that needs to be added/removed in the config and that the openSUSE KDE/Plasma

The issue lies in using pam_unix2.so (old PAM config) vs pam_unix.so (new config). If you have the old configuration (note you do not want to do a simple search and replace!) kcheckpass (the program responsible for the acual password check) won't have enough permissions to access the files it needs to open. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Luca Beltrame wrote:

Neil Rickert wrote:

...

At present Plasma 5 is not ready for prime time. It is cripple-ware. I'm seriously considering reinstalling Tumbleweed (and KDE4).

Did you read the whole mail that introduced this thread, in particular the last paragraph? I asked for constructive feedback. "Cripple-ware" is not constructive feedback.

Well, you opened a poll, that's hardly about constructive feedback either. Don't be surprised if people offer some honest opinions too. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (10.9°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Luca Beltrame wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

Well, you opened a poll, that's hardly about constructive feedback either. Don't be surprised if people offer some honest opinions too.

I expect people to actually *read* the whole mail. Fear not, though, next time a change will occur, it will be *announced*, not discussed.

Perhaps not the most of mature attitudes - you don't like the response, so you sulk and don't want to play anymore. Just an observation. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (9.0°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - free dynamic DNS, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata wrote:

How much is much? "Much improved" is just hyperbole if the improvement isn't enough to get it across the threshhold from clearly betaware into good enough to do that which was previously both possible, and depended

I've removed your address from my killfile just this once to reply. Did you even read the mail that started the thread, like many other people I asked to? This is *not* constructive. Where are the bits that you define "betaware"? What doesn't work? What does? Are there obvious issues in packages? Or there are critical bugs that need to be reported upstream (you *would* report them, wouldn't you?)? If you keep this generic, this is not helping, and in fact it's tremendously demotivating.

upon. Lots of fixes and feature additions can make anything look "much improved" compared to an immediately previous incarnation, but what counts

Power management is no small feat and changed considerably, for the better, in the 5.x codebase.

History tells us that the KDE4 team caused huge displeasure and

Feel free to keep KDE3 if you want, it's not maintained by the KDE team anyway. But don't ask *us* and I mean the team, to supplement upstream once LTS support for 4.x ends. Heck, did you even *try* Plasma 5? (and btw, our current relationship with upstream is quite good, and we even managed to fix some things ourselves in the past)

KDE3, as well as commitment to keeping KDE3 in openSUSE useful long past when upstream support ended.

We (as in the openSUSE community KDE team) do not *want* this commitment. We aren't enough and we all have other commitments to do. Especially since critical bits of the architecture Plasma 4.x depends on (like QGraphicsView) are essentially on permanent maintenance mode from Qt.

From user perspective, those are distinctions without differences. Users

Oh? Are you sure about that? You can run KDE applications in LXDE, GNOME, MATE. lxqt is using bits of the KDE Frameworks 5 (the libraries) and it's not even a KDE project. KDE is the community which makes software. The workspace, libraries, and applications are totally decoupled from each other. That's why making this migration is easier than if it weren't. And this is not news, it's been *years* in the making (and communicated from upstream, even).

That's an unfortunate plan, resulting from the practicalities of coupling grandiose intent with less than adequate resources to fulfill that intent

Felix, I wish you'd stop being so condescending. How are *your* contributions *here* helpful? How are you actually *helping* in any way at all? The resources come from the community. Aren't we all in this? Or do we want again a "us vs them" mentality even when there aren't any SUSE employees in the team?

It also takes work to file good bug reports, reports that stand a reasonable chance of being acted upon. Not the least of it is getting in

It's better than NOT doing so and complaining.

installing, and only then seeing what happens. Filing a good bug means making a reasonable effort to not duplicate an existing bug, participating

That's why we asked the community, because we can't do all of this ourselves. I'll say it again: no more discussion next time. Changes will come from top to down. It's a wasted effort to invest energy with part of a community that has *no* intention of helping. -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Luca Beltrame composed on 2015-03-25 07:51 (UTC+0100):

...my killfile...... ... Heck, did you even *try* Plasma 5?

The answer to that appeared in your identical subject opensuse-kde thread http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2015-03/msg00044.html at http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2015-03/msg00048.html Had the roles been reversed, I would not have needed to ask. I don't killfile people, only subject strings. Had you followed through on my thread post you just replied to, you could have seen that I spent enough time with it since then to result in 4 bugs.kde.org comments over the past 4 days in addition to multiple postings on at least 3 mailing lists on KDE subjects since these twin threads started.

Did you even read the mail that started the thread, like many other people I asked to?

I read the original sent to opensuse-kde shortly after it arrived, also whatever bits of it were quoted in every reply as your repeat in opensuse-factory thread proceeded, and again before prior send the opensuse-factory original you sent on the 12th, one of rare original thread posts I ever intentionally kept longer than a few days that was not written by myself. My focus has been on your "- Checking for missing functionality".

Where are the bits that you define "betaware"? What doesn't work? What does? Are there obvious issues in packages? Or there are critical bugs that need to be reported upstream (you *would* report them, wouldn't you?)?

Answers to some of those were in the the part of my post you just replied to that you didn't quote or respond to. That part of my post was intentionally kept short, because longer would have been more repeats of what others have pointed out, and more repeats about more bugs long ago reported yet remaining unfixed, if even acknowledged via confirmation.

...

It also takes work to file good bug reports, reports that stand a reasonable chance of being acted upon. Not the least of it is getting in

It's better than NOT doing so and complaining.

I have filed KDE bugs[1], last month even[2], but I put considerable effort into not filing new bugs about previously reported behavior, which keeps my reports filed count low. Instead I CC and/or add a comment and/or a screenshot. KDE is a poor place to file bugs that you want to observe results from directly, if at all. Even when you file one for which you eventually see results, likelihood to see the bug touched at all by other than other users reporting similar experience by adding a comment, or putting themselves on CC is poor. Seeing your own bug marked resolved or even confirmed comes as a surprise to a mere mortal, non-progammer user.

...

installing, and only then seeing what happens. Filing a good bug means making a reasonable effort to not duplicate an existing bug, participating

That's why we asked the community, because we can't do all of this ourselves.

It's a wasted effort to invest energy with part of a community that has *no* intention of helping.

If I had no intention of helping, no one would find me saying anything at all here, or on bugs.kde.org, but the fact is I do appear both places, because I do want to see the new "stable" K made at least as good as the stable K it's supposed to replace. To me "as good as" means restoring missing functionality is more important than creating new functionality. Learning something new is fine, if it's something added that doesn't interfere with things old. It's not OK if it's made necessary because of the whole project having been and still being rewritten from scratch and the missing function hasn't been gotten too yet. Oh, you can't do that yet doesn't fly here. I'd really rather say I use the latest K* because it's the best K*, and recommend it to and install it for others; to need familiarity with only one version instead of trying to keep straight which one does what that the other doesn't. KDE4 never got to that point. I can't see KF5 even close to there for 13.3 either. That doesn't mean I don't wish the contrary, or won't be doing anything to that end. ...

this is not helping, and in fact it's tremendously demotivating.

Good you understand the concept of demotivation. It works both ways. Try putting yourself on the side of users who do test and do file bugs to mostly see the effort that went into them produce no apparent results. Seeing new features show up while old bugs lie fallow is tremendously demotivating too. [1] https://bugs.kde.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=NEEDSINFO&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&email1=mrmazda%40earthlink.net&emailassigned_to1=1&emailreporter1=1&emailtype1=exact&field0-0-0=bug_status&field0-0-1=reporter&list_id=1235081&type0-0-0=notequals&type0-0-1=equals&value0-0-0=UNCONFIRMED&value0-0-1=mrmazda%40earthlink.net [2] https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340248 -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 25/03/15 12:51, Robert Kaiser wrote:

Luca Beltrame schrieb:

...

I'll say it again: no more discussion next time. Changes will come from top to down. It's a wasted effort to invest energy with part of a community that has *no* intention of helping.

It's sad to hear that a small minority of ranters can push you enough to make you unconstructive. Be assured that *way* more people value your work and are really enthusiastic about KDE and the packages this team maintains in openSUSE than the minority that is complaining.

I've been doing project management in the open source space for at least 10 years now, and I know it's sometimes hard when you hear a small group of conservative community members denounce all the progress and innovation you are enabling and working on.

Don't give in and remember that while they are part of the community, and between the ranting you'll find a very few specific issues that need work, the vast majority of people who are actually satisfied and happy with your work is usually not speaking out - because they have nothing to complain about! :)

KaiRo

+1 I switched to plasma5 and KDE Frameworks 5 a few days ago, and so far I'm enjoying the experience. There were a few configuration issues to start with, but no show stoppers. I'm just a home user, and this is not a critical production machine. I wrote and maintain a small website for a club. For 5 years it was virtually a one man show - trying to get club members to write articles for the site was like pulling teeth. All very frustrating. Then, last year, the club went through a reorganisation, and suddenly it was noticed that our website could do with some improvements. Without consulting me, two members started a discussion with a local marketing company, and only on their third meeting did they invite me to be part of the process. I'm sure they acted with the best intentions, but after 5 years of empty praise and no contributions, I felt hurt by the apparent takeover. It took a couple of months before we reached an understanding, so I know how it feels to invest a lot of time and energy into a project, only to receive what seems like unconstructive criticism. Keep up the good work, please. Bob - -- Bob Williams System: Linux 3.16.7-7-desktop Distro: openSUSE 13.2 (x86_64) with KDE Development Platform: 4.14.3 Uptime: 06:00am up 7:55, 3 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.06 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iEUEARECAAYFAlUStNsACgkQ0Sr7eZJrmU6QfgCggrMXQKyASoD4Slu8pEvFeUaM reYAmJuOnxYNjMnl7FiP9O3NSQGPbbU= =fudQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Wednesday 25 of March 2015 18:00:11 Thomas Leineweber wrote:

Am 25.03.2015 um 14:15 schrieb Bob Williams:

...

Keep up the good work, please.

I concur!

Coming back to the original questions, there are only minor problems for me with Plasma 5: * I am using the addressbook and calendar from the KDE PIM Suite. The calender is not yet integrated into the "Calendar popup when clicking on the clock". * Additionally, I use the birthdaylist plasmoid from the Extra repository on my desktop to have an early birthday reminder :). I have not yet managed to show this plasmoid within Plasma 5 (I suspect, it has to be ported).

Those 2 probably won't have a working Plasma 5 version until we see KF5-based PIM release. Unless both take the approach to communicate with akonadi purely via DBus.

* A problem which might be a bug: The password input field on the lock screen is not selected for input as default. So I have to select it, before typing my password for unlocking the screen.

https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/293137

Apart from that, I am a happy user of Plasma 5 on my little laptop. Good to hear =) I'd vote for going forward.

Cheers, Hrvoje

Thomas

On Wednesday 25 of March 2015 18:24:37 jcsl wrote:

Hi.

Autologin with SDDM doesn't work until I create the section and add myself to /etc/sddm.conf. With KDM was working fine. Is this something that should be reported?

No, sddm doesn't have integration with /etc/sysconfig/* (yet).

I have a question too: what are the applications already ported? I changed Kate and KMix with their version 5 alternative and I think they're working fine. Shouldn't they have been replaced when I installed plasma-session?

https://community.kde.org/Applications/14.12_Release_Notes See the KF5 based tarballs section. The patterns-openSUSE-plasma5_basis pattern has been updated in Tumbleweed with appropriate alternatives, the session package covers the desktop only. Cheers, Hrvoje

Thanks for your work KDE Team!

Greetings.

Yamaban wrote:

Kate is difficult. May KDE4 apps require kate / katepart from KDE4, "krusader" for one example, "kdevelop4" has been corrected, AFAICT "kscope" wanted kate, at least the last time I tried it.

Those are packaging hiccups and can be fixed. We fixed the one in kdevelop as soon as we were aware of it.

I talk about upstream, meaning the "real" KDE devs here.

I am part of upstream KDE, as a user support person, developer (yes, although small, I *have* contributed patches and KF5 5.7 has a couple features written by myself), and general contributor. One of the things I do is to ensure that the oS-upstream relationship is good, and by keeping the rest of the KDE team up to date on changes that might occur. So can I say I take offense in this? Also, did you read the release announcements of the past Plasma 5 version, in particular 5.0?

If I want a toddler tantum, the local children-garden provides that, no need for the "Steering comitee" of KDE adding to that.

Can you stop being derogatory to the work of others? There is no steering committee, also. Where do you see one? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tuesday 24 of March 2015 15:42:23 Neil Rickert wrote:

On Tuesday, March 24, 2015 07:30:54 AM Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

1. The polls' results are disconcerting - at most 10 votes.

I went to that poll page maybe a day or two after your first announcement in this thread. I saw the poll, tried to vote, but could not.

Okay, I worked out that I needed to be logged in. And then I voted.

Should not the page at least tell people that they have to be logged in to vote, and that if the have a forum login they use that. Count me as completely unsurprised at how view votes there are.

...

2. No solid objections have been raised during this period, so the plan will proceed forward towards having Plasma 5.3 as default in openSUSE. Of course, we still have our contingency plan (see original mail) should everything fail.

Hi Neil,

At present Plasma 5 is not ready for prime time. It is cripple-ware. I'm seriously considering reinstalling Tumbleweed (and KDE4). .... By the way, there is a discussion thread at the forum.

https://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php/505865-KDE-5-concerns

There are not a lot of comments there, either. But there are a few. The forum is probably the best place for a discussion.

I am mostly seeing 'i would like and wouldn't like' w/o listing specific issues. OK, it seems missing session management with kwin is somewhere at the top of the list, and most of other mentioned problems are either addressed, or known to upstream.

My advice for opensuse 3.3: ... (b) Provide Plasma 5, but in such a way that it can be installed alongside KDE4. Maybe that requires a separate install path for the present. This is the case with 13.2 already...

I'm glad that I only tried Plasma 5 on my test system.

Few people are trying it, because they have seen the reports and consider it not ready.

If Plasma 5 can be installed alongside KDE4, many more people will try it. At present, they have to risk a crippled system to try Plasma 5. If it could be installed alongside KDE4, then they could test it, comment on it. yet not cripple their working KDE4.

That's my two cents.

Could you elaborate on the 'cripple' part? We're talking here about the desktop (one has to remove some 4, 5 packages on existing kde4 install to install plasma5), for which most missing features are non-ported widgets, and the list of those is decreasing. Yes there are some bigger bugs, but there is such kind also for plasma4 desktop, which will never be resolved for that 'generation'. On the other hand we have long standing wishlist bugs resolved (such as custom wallpaper for screenlocker, unlocking via DBus, undo of widget removal, improved usability, etc.) Cheers, Hrvoje

Or maybe release separate Plasma 5 dvd for testing only to see if everything works as it should. .. Just a tought.... -----Original Message----- From: "šumski" To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Sent: do, 26 mrt. 2015 3:06 Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] Action plans for Plasma 5 as default in openSUSE On Wednesday 25 of March 2015 21:57:49 Sonny Michaud wrote:

First off, I just want to echo the point others have made: try not to be discouraged by the naysayers. The KDE team is doing excellent work!

I tried to install plasma5 today and ran into some problems getting it to start. I've seen similar problems caused by the fact that I have an optimus enabled nvidia graphics card, and I use bumblebee to control the graphics card (most recently vlc wouldn't start, so I had to start with optirun so it could find the glx drivers, then I still had to disable hardware decoding, because it wasn't working). Either way, my assumption is that this is the root of the problem. It's not impossible ;-)

Here is my installation log: http://pastebin.com/JBGCVqnB Here is the crash log: http://pastebin.com/5VDmS58q

Let me know if you would like me to file a bug or if this information is useless and you need more. Thanks, again, for all your hard work!

Please try reporting the issue @ bugs.kde.org against plasmashell product (general component). You'll need at least libQt5Core5-debuginfo and libQt5Gui5-debuginfo packages to get more detailed backtrace (crash is somewhere in Qt's xcb plugin). Feel free to follow up here with the bug number so we can track it ourselves also. Thanks! Cheers, Hrvoje

- Sonny

On 03/12/2015 03:48 PM, Luca Beltrame wrote:

...

(originally posted on opensuse-kde for initial discussion)

Hello openSUSE KDE users and contributors,

This mail outlines our plans for moving towards Plasma 5 as a default desktop for the next openSUSE release, includinga tentative action plan and where help from you all is required. We do not believe on pushing changes on users without some sort of preparation, therefore this document describes the transition plan.

See the previous mails[0] for a rationale of this decision.

[0] http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-kde/2015-03/msg00010.html

==== The plan ====

Phase 1: Gather input from the community

In this phase, we would like people from the community, if they are able to, to test the currently-available code. It's quite easy, as all the required software is already available directly in Tumbleweed. You should install Plasma 5 from there (bear in mind that its install will not coexist with the 4.x workspace) and simply try using it.

We are most interested with feedback, in particular:

- Testing packaging - Testing upgrades of packages - Helping with building openQA tests - Checking for missing functionality

Feedback will tracked through the following connect.opensuse.org polls:

- Overall experience [1] : What does fowrk for you? What doesn't? - Missing functionality [2]: What are you missing from the 4.x workspace that you deem irrepleaceable? - Upgrade experience [3]: Was the upgrade from the 4.x packages smooth? Did anything break? - Visual and hardware-related issues [4]: Is Plasma 5 running well with your hardware?

Bugs in the software should be reported upstream, but any issue in the packaging should be reported to openSUSE's Bugzilla.

Phase 2: OpenQA testing

We will discuss with the rest of the openSUSE community on how to handle Plasma 5 on openQA. This is where we need your help the most, because openQA needles are an important part of the openSUSE testing and we need many to ensure a smooth experience (and transition from 4.x), and we need a lot of them to ensure there are no hiccups down the road. Refer to http://os-autoinst.github.io/openQA/ to see how you can contribute.

This phase will go as long as we can get comparable results as the 4.x workspace on openQA.

=== What about applications ? ===

As with regards to application releases from KDE (KDE Applications xx.yyy), our plan is to use directly what KDE releases, meaning that we will switch to KF5-based applications once upstream makes stable releases of them. If there are no KF5-based releases of a particular application, the currently available 4.x version will be used.

=== New repository layout ===

As part of the migration plan, when Plasma 5 becomes the default desktop in openSUSE the following changes will take place:

- KDE:Frameworks5 (already the devel project for Plasma 5 and the KF5 libraries) will take the place of KDE:Distro:Factory (slowly phased out) - Application releases will be hosted in a separate development project, KDE:Applications

KDE:Current, offering 4.x based releases, will be kept for users of past openSUSE versions.

=== Contingency plan ===

In case the issues reported during the testing period are too severe, we will revert back to the 4.x workspace and await further improvements from upstream.

=== How can I help ? ===

First and foremost: testing! We've been running the KF5 based desktop for a while but the team is small, we need more eyes looking for potential issues. Secondly: openQA tests are an essential foundation of an always-stable Tumbleweed, therefore this is another eare where help is warranted. A third area is documentation: wiki pages, guides, anything that can help in the transition. The team can help providing the required information.

Above all: always be constructive when reporting issues. Saying "It sucks, get back to 4.x" is not only not going to help, but it is severely demotivating and that can be a problem with a task of this size. We're all humans, don't forget that.

=== Poll links ===

[1] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/luca_b/47114/what-is-your-exp erience-with-plasma-5-in-opensuse [2] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/luca_b/47132/what-functionali ty-do-you-miss-most-from-plasma-5 [3] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/luca_b/47168/how-was-your-upg rade-experience-from-plasma-workspace-4x-to-plasma-5 [4] https://connect.opensuse.org/pg/polls/read/luca_b/47184/how-is-your-plas ma-5-visual-experience

Luca Beltrame on behalf of the openSUSE community KDE Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Felix Miata wrote:

foundational packages had names starting with kf- or libkf- instead of plasma* or qt* or system*. Names like kf5-snapshot or kf5-konqueror would be nice too.

For Frameworks (which are just libraries), packages have the name of the upstream libs, e.g. libKF5GuiAddons5. Devel packages (unneded by most users) are instead frameworkname-devel. For Plasma itself, the packages have more or less the name of the upstream projects: plasma-workspace5, plasma-desktop5. For applications, they have the name of the upstream application, followed by the number 5: kate5, dolphin5...

been horrific. It took me months stabbing at it off and on before I had success generating anything more than crashes or black screens on session startup.

There is no upgrade path yet in the same way as Fedora as the existing KF5 packages do not obsolete the old 4.x packages yet.

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926841 (yast, enroute to virgin KF5 installation) Yast should display the free space warning only when something is going to be installed there

Those are dealt by the YaST team, I suppose.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346059 panel spontaneously disappears

I haven't been able to reproduce this in what will become Plasma 5.3 (beta out this week).

http://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=926858 flatten menu to a single level produces no perceptible effect

There are plans to change the menu structure to upstream default, so I'm not sure this applies (or will apply differently).

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=346122 [a11y][u7y] kcmshell5 fonts - > Choose (Select Font) initial window size much too small (DPI>96)

Upstream Qt bug (see latest comment).

Post-OP comments in still existing old bugs I filed originally: http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=262695 bad spacing between main selections

A long-term plan of revamping System Settings' UI is ongoing [1] and everyone is invited to provide feedback. [1] https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=285&t=124463

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340982 I cannot set my short date to YYYY-MM-DD, nor my time to HH:MM

This may be an upstream Qt bug (Qt's locale and date formatting features in Qt5 still pale in comparison to what kdelibs were able to do).

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=344183 konsole5 crashes right after login

I don't use saved sessions so I can't really comment on this one.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=229984

Affects k3b, that although is usually part of installs, is not part of either the workspace, or the applications (it's an extragear application).

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=263562

This needs to be re-filed against plasma 5 if still appplicable.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=279201

This probably neeeds re-triaging.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340248

Same as above wrt k3b.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=158556

Probably a WONTFIX, but I'm not part of the Plasma 5 dev team so I may be wrong.

http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=317929

As Dan said in the report, manual disabling of KScreen will do it.

2-distro vs. upstream default theming faults WRT A11Y & U7Y

Upstream branding will be used for Plasma 5. See the opensuse-kde ML for details.

3-compared to KDE3/4, too much mousing required to log off

Personal preference.

4-compared to KDE3/4, extra mouse click required to see recent *

Personal preference.

5-items from KDE4's application menu settings missing in KF5's

Can you elaborate on which?

6-application menu settings' "Show applications as:" select list much too narrow until opened

Was a bug filed upstream?

7-where did "run command" menu selection go (RC only available if desktop accessible to reach its context menu)?

You mean on desktop right click? Or do you mean a lack of shortcuts (Alt-F2 and Alt-Space are upstream defaults)? -- Luca Beltrame - KDE Forums team KDE Science supporter GPG key ID: 6E1A4E79 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org