Hi, On 02/10/2010 06:32 PM, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:

Dňa 10.2.2010 18:02, Michael Loeffler wrote / napísal(a):

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- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)

So why is Plymouth developed? Why are other distros going to use it?

Because other distributions are not using what we are using (bootsplash). So they invent it plymouth to scratch a itch they have: a splash implementation they are not happy with. As you can see this has nothing to do with our distro. We always had a rather good bootsplash implementation and plymouth has not _many_ benefits over bootsplash and comes with a cost. Thats what the sentence above is trying to say. Same with upstart and a couple of other things. You always have to carefully consider what you are investing your time in. And neither "its new!" nor "everybody else is using it!" are very good arguments by themselves. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:

Michael Loeffler wrote:

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- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)

like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot. Andrea - -- - ------------------------------------------ Andrea Florio QSI International School of Brindisi Sys Admin CISCO CCNA Certified openSUSE-Education Administrator openSUSE Official Member (anubisg1) Email: andrea@opensuse.org Packman Packaging Team Email: andrea@links2linux.de Web: http://packman.links2linux.org/ Cell: +39-328-7365667 - ------------------------------------------ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.12 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with SUSE - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkty9RkACgkQyCZT87TFPuinPQCg6Jc6w6n2UGGq6iL6pk5Ek2sT U0YAnRZDL081fl9vvcOl/bhZA1f1l/V5 =kqZC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dňa 10.2.2010 19:14, Greg KH wrote / napísal(a):

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:

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Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:

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Michael Loeffler wrote:

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- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)

like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.

Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do.

Not to mention the legal aspects of the whole thing...

thanks,

greg k-h

But something is preparing, afaik;-) https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=554823 -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi, On 02/10/2010 07:14 PM, Greg KH wrote:

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 07:04:09PM +0100, Andrea Florio wrote:

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Il 10/02/2010 18:42, Robert Kaiser ha scritto:

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Michael Loeffler wrote:

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- Simplified access to useful but proprietary software - drivers (NVidia etc.)

like broadcom-wl drivers that i actually maintain on packman... (other distro like ubuntu already provides them.. i can't understand why we cannot.

Because distributing closed source kernel drivers is something that Novell has stated it will not do.

So does the openSUSE Project. We won't distribute closed source kernel drivers that violate the rights of fellow hackers. Rest assured. Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 02/10/2010 02:29 PM, Greg KH wrote:

On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 08:01:02PM +0100, Clayton wrote:

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On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler wrote:

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- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)

That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.

The real goal should be to boot so fast you don't need a spash screen. Look at the Goblin builds (openSUSE Moblin), everything happens within 15 seconds, so a custom splash sequence would only slow things down (it really does, we have measured the thing...)

What we need to do is get the Moblin changes into the main openSUSE repo, which we are slowly getting accomplished.

That may lessen the boot time but openSUSE will never get down to the times that Moblin does simply because flexibility isn't free. The goals are too different. Personally, I'd be extremely annoyed if I was hamstrung by the limitations Moblin imposes for every day systems. I want LVM. I want encrypted home and swap. These things mean an initrd slowing things down and that is a trade off I'll happily make. -Jeff -- Jeff Mahoney SUSE Labs -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

2010/2/10 Rastislav Krupanský :

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- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)

That's a shame.  OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.

Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( And that´s a pity.

True. That said, as Henne pointed out, the current bootsplash isn't bad... in most cases anyway. Still, I would love to see either more improvements in the bootsplash, or that we take a serious look at Plymouth. Sadly I'm neither an artist now much of a programmer... so my contributions here are very limited (unless we want stick men on the bootsplash... I can draw stick men :-) ). I understand completely why an extra like this would be set aside as a "maybe we can look at it later" since it's new, and would require yet more stretching of scarce resources. C. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

-----Original Message----- From: Stephan Kulow [mailto:coolo@novell.com] Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 10:13 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] openSUSE 11.3 themes and features

Am Mittwoch 10 Februar 2010 schrieb Rastislav Krupanský:

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Dňa 10.2.2010 20:01, Clayton wrote / napísal(a):

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On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 18:02, Michael Loeffler wrote:

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- Plymouth for splash #305493 (we don't think there is much benefit in)

That's a shame. OK, it's a shiny feature, but it's a shiny feature that adds a significant level of polish to the boot sequence.

C.

Yea, it´s a shiny feature and almost all distributions underestimate the wow effect. Beginner then often has a bad first impression or loses motivation :-( Sorry, I wasn't wowed booting Fedora 12, were you?

Greetings, Stephan

I mean in generally, not only in boot. But it could be matter of taste. And Fedora doesn´t have jimmac in artwork team, or does? ;-) -- S pozdravom / Best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org