Am 28.06.2011 16:22, schrieb Greg KH:

No they aren't. They are dropped from "support" after the next release comes out, 3 months later. This is identical to what the Mozilla people are doing.

And what´s with 2.6.32.x, 2.6.34.x and 2.6.35.x ? -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 08:02:41 AM Martin Schlander wrote:

Tirsdag den 28. juni 2011 16:27:25 skrev Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

Am 28.06.2011 16:13, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:

...

I want to ask you, f there some plans to change the default browser. The background of that is, that Mozilla, and the new model of development, could be a factor of more work for our packagers and testers.

Switching to another browser by default could be more easy to us, because Firefox could be a potential breaker for the next releases (I remember, that there where several add-ons which didin´t worked with FF 4 and now doesn´t for with FF 5 too.

Maybe a change from Firefox to Iceweasel could be the solution. From my point of view, Mozilla is doing a lot wrong from the release of Firefox 4.0 till today and this could destroy the goal, to deliver a *stable* release.

I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.

So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?

Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway? I say, let the Gnome team keep Firefox... though Chromium could be a shiny alternative. AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Friday 01 July 2011 05:17:13 Rajko M. wrote:

On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.

Why would we want to dispose of possibly the best browser around for something that is sub functional at very best , I design a number of web sites as a hobby more than anything else (all motor sport related sites) i have been thru most of the browsers and whilst there are a couple of mighty annoying problems with FF5 it is far better than the rest of the compertition so once again why change . Time would be better spent doing away with systemd. Pete . -- Powered by openSUSE 11.3 (x86_64) Kernel: 2.6.34.8-0.2-desktop KDE Development Platform: 4.6.00 (4.6.0) 07:09 up 4 days 11:09, 4 users, load average: 0.01, 0.03, 0.00 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Le 01/07/2011 08:20, Marcus Meissner a écrit :

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)

? still have 4.01 jdd (and ff5 by my own dl) -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.youtube.com/user/jdddodinorg http://jdd.blip.tv/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Fredag den 1. juli 2011 08:20:15 skrev Marcus Meissner:

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)

Didn't notice any problems yet, other than apparent incompatibility with the Moonlight extension. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 2011/07/01 08:20 (GMT+0200) Marcus Meissner composed:

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)

More than 13.5 hours ago installed here. I laugh to myself whenever "default browser" comes up. I open apps first, then choose what to open in them. Web browsers usually take up half the "recently used applications" space in my KDE starter. About the only time "default browser" comes into play here is from click errors, which on most of my logins brings up Konq, not FF. When it's FF, all I see is the choose profile window. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner :

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)

I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working. This is really unfair! It denies me my constitutional rights on having a good rant! :-P Of course it would be good if FACTORY could also get it. Or is the 4.99 there technically (and security-wise) the same as the one from 11.4? -- Stefan Seyfried "Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, 2011-07-01 at 08:48 +0100, Rob OpenSuSE wrote:

On 1 July 2011 08:43, Stefan Seyfried wrote:

...

Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner

...

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? : I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working. I noticed to, I had to change "branding" on SuSE Studio install to have the update complete So far (disappointingly) FF5 is working as well for me as it has done under Win 7. All my "Add Ons" work, guess I'll just have to be grumpy about KDE4 or GNOME3 instead.. oh well :)

Same here, the FF5 update was completely painless. And on some of our intranet apps the performance improvement is nothing short of *amazing*. Those *@^&@ developers! What is a LINUX desktop user to do when everything just-works?! -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 01.07.2011 09:43, schrieb Stefan Seyfried:

Am Fri, 1 Jul 2011 08:20:15 +0200 schrieb Marcus Meissner :

...

Firefox 5 was pushed to 11.4 updates yesterday... Did anyone notice? :)

I saw and installed it, but sadly everything just kept working.

This is really unfair! It denies me my constitutional rights on having a good rant! :-P

Of course it would be good if FACTORY could also get it. Or is the 4.99 there technically (and security-wise) the same as the one from 11.4?

It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree. But it'll be added soon. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

...

It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.

I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?

I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 02.07.2011 21:27, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:

...

Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

...

...

It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.

I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?

I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?

All of it

http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/

It is totally different from the linux version which looks like

http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png

The "Firefox Button" can be enabled on Linux as well by disabling the menu bar. It's different though as there is no way to move the UI into the window decoration bar with Gtk2. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Cristian Rodríguez schrieb:

El 02/07/11 15:00, Wolfgang Rosenauer escribió:

...

Am 02.07.2011 20:40, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

...

...

It's basically technically the same as it's beta7 which had no source changes to the final version. The difference is that it uses the beta channel (shipping the feedback addon) and is built from another HG tree.

I like the interface that is used in windows 7 ..why is it that there are multiple GUIs for the same program ?

I guess it's meant to integrate into the target platform as much as possible. Not sure what difference you mean exactly though?

All of it

http://www.blognotes.in/firefox-4-final-ui-in-windows-7-screenshots/

It is totally different from the linux version which looks like

http://www.tuxarena.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/firefox4beta7.png

The blognotes.in article has mockups that were never really implemented this way, the plans for some time in the future are still similar, but not yet fully done even in the in-development Firefox 7 code. You can get some way in the direction of what the Windows 7 UI looks like if you hide the menu bar through the View > Toolbars menu. Unfortunately, we are unable to draw into the window decoration on Linux, so the Firefox button is being shown in the tab bar instead there. The overall style and icons are of course the results of fitting in with the overall platform, and in the Linux case are taken from GTK/GNOME to a large part, through native interfaces. Robert Kaiser -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Roger Luedecke wrote:

I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.

Rough is right. I just attempted installing it on a KDE3-only 11.4 system with zypper.conf having installRecommends = no, and zypper wanted to install 56 new packages (cln, clucene-core, giflib, gstreamer...kde4-greeter-plugins...branding...branding...theme...theme...soprano, soprano-backend-redland). That seems an absurd number of requires just to add one web browser to one that already has FF, SM & Konq. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Friday, July 01, 2011 12:17:53 AM Felix Miata wrote:

Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.

Rough is right. I just attempted installing it on a KDE3-only 11.4 system with zypper.conf having installRecommends = no, and zypper wanted to install 56 new packages (cln, clucene-core, giflib, gstreamer...kde4-greeter-plugins...branding...branding...theme...theme...so prano, soprano-backend-redland). That seems an absurd number of requires just to add one web browser to one that already has FF, SM & Konq. KDE3 is deprecated, and Rekonq uses the libraries of KDE4. I say, let Rekonq be default for KDE4; not Gnome or any other. Making it defaul on antthing but KDE4 would be like making Lynx default on Gnome3. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thursday, June 30, 2011 09:17:13 PM Rajko M. wrote:

On Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:07:21 AM Roger Luedecke wrote:

...

AN d I fully support Rekonq on KDE. Its a little rough around the edges, but is quite functional.

Browser is as good as number of web pages it renders properly.

Browser is also central piece of user web experience, so having rough around the edges as default is at least not responsible. Rough around the edges as in not yet as fast as FF4 and Chrome. I have had no issues with rendering. I would be using it as default if I didn't need the GoogleTalk Plugin. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Dienstag, 28. Juni 2011, 21:01:20 schrieb Kim Leyendecker:

Am 28.06.2011 17:02, schrieb Martin Schlander:

...

Shouldn't the choice of default browser be made by the respective desktop teams (kde, gnome etc.) anyway?

Makes more sense to do a more equal decision for both desktops IMHO. AFAIK Firefox is the default on both, so I think the successor should be too.

Not if it does not integrate well enough. And only the users of the regarding DE can decide on that. Sven -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 28.06.2011 21:03, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:

Am 28.06.2011 16:27, schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

I agree that the release policy can be an issue. There are a lot of pros and cons but how do you think Iceweasel would help in any way? It's just an unbranded Firefox.

So you haven't answered the most important question. Which browser should be the default browser?

Iceweasel is still Firefox-like and based on 3.6.x, which is still in maintaining mode and gets security updates. It´s also supported by the Debian-project, so I think this is an unofficial guarantee.

Ok, for now it's totally unclear how long 3.6.x will be updated. The current plan says there will be at least one more update but no guarantee that there will be another. And as much as I appreciate Mike Hommey's work on Debian's Iceweasel I don't think that Debian has the ressources to fully support a Firefox codebase security wise (alone). Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 09:16:03 AM Kim Leyendecker wrote:

Haven´t we people who are working on FF yet? If we switch, we could use these people for supporting Iceweasel.

These people is Wolfgang, so far I know. And again where is the difference between Firefox and Iceweasel? Last time I used Iceweasel it was crashing big time. -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am 28.06.2011 23:06, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

You have just enumerated reasons on why NOT switching to Iceweasel, old buggy code that barely gets attention with nobody capable of providing the man power needed to maintain that huge codebase.

okay, I didn´t thought about that, but quite frankly, the code in the current Firefox releases should be more buggy than the 3.6.x one, because since the 4.0 release it seems to me, that the developers at Mozilla becomes some version-number junkies who just want to release the next major version and the next even with almost the same code inside. This seems not the case with Iceweasel which is still based on the old code but gets more tests as far as I can comment this. By the way: Maybe a "hard" change, which means switching completely to Iceweasel is really *too* hard and needs more resources as I thought. But could it be possible to package a RPM for Iceweasel and let it go to factory as an *alternative* browser? I will try to do it on my own (the package) as soon as I can, but my packaging knowledge is very very limited, so is this possible? thanks -- Kim Leyendecker (kdl@k-dl.de.vu) openSUSE Ambassador, openSUSE Wiki Team DE HAVE A LOT OF FUN! http://www.opensuse.org Have you tried SUSE Studio? Need to create a Live CD, an app you want to package and distribute or create your own Linux distro. Give SUSE Studio a try. http://www.susestudio.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Kim,

Am 29.06.2011 16:31, schrieb Kim Leyendecker:

...

By the way: Maybe a "hard" change, which means switching completely to Iceweasel is really *too* hard and needs more resources as I thought. But could it be possible to package a RPM for Iceweasel and let it go to factory as an *alternative* browser? I will try to do it on my own (the package) as soon as I can, but my packaging knowledge is very very limited, so is this possible?

We need to clarify some facts. Iceweasel is Debian's name for Firefox because they don't want to or are not allowed to call it Firefox.

I had no idea what IceWeasel was, so I looked it up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat -- Per Jessen, Zürich (23.1°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Kim Leyendecker wrote:

Am 29.06.2011 18:23, schrieb Per Jessen:

...

I had no idea what IceWeasel was, so I looked it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_IceCat

Wrong. IceWeasel is the GNU version, Iceweasel the Debian part.

Sorry, I got confused. I guess there used to be a GNU Iceweasel, which then became a Debian Iceweasel. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (15.6°C) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On 06/28/2011 10:22 AM, Felix Miata wrote:

On 2011/06/28 16:13 (GMT+0200) Kim Leyendecker composed:

...

*On Firefox, the FF 4.x line ends right now after the release of 5.0

The 4.x line is the 5.x line, just with new labeling. The 3.6.x line is still supported, and will be until whatever major following 5 (looks like 6 may be skipped) is released.

The labeling has to do with Marketing. All other major browsers have major versions well beyond "v4":

Safari = 5 (for more than a year now) IE = 9 Opera = 11 Chrome = 12

It's hard to look like a competitive major browser to the clueless masses when your "version" looks so old. I am running Firefox 6.0a2 on 12.1 and it works very well. It seems the only issue is flash and a x86-64 machine. So does Thunderbird Shredder 3.3a1. At least on the plugins I need to use. -- 73 de Donn Washburn 307 Savoy Street Email:" n5xwb@comcast.net " Sugar Land, TX 77478 LL# 1.281.242.3256 Ham Callsign N5XWB HAMs : " n5xwb@arrl.net " VoIP via Skype:n5xwbg BMWMOA #:4146 Ambassador " http://counter.li.org " #279316 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi Robert, Am 28.06.2011 18:49, schrieb Robert Kaiser:

No, you just need to deliver the latest release in updates. Previously Mozilla sometimes broke things in "security updates", shipped a pretty large new feature in 3.6.4, and complaints we low to non-existent. Not that we guarantee that we have tested all updates well and they contain a small amount of feature updates as well, you think it's non-acceptable. A strange move in my eyes, driven mostly by fears of bad things, uncertainty of the actual process and doubt that it works.

You know that a Linux distribution contains thousands of packages and where would we end up when every package would be handled that way? There is a reason why version updates are considered bad if you want to keep a distribution stable. The key point for openSUSE so far is to keep the behaviour of the whole distribution consistent but secure for its lifetime so nobody needs to run into unexpected changes. Both sides have their points and personally I like to have the latest Firefox (I always had anyway) and given the addon compat is improved so people don't need to end up with non-working addons it's probably the better choice. My biggest concern of all is that Mozilla now _properly_ killed every Gecko embedding application (thanks that a lot of consumers have switched to webkit earlier). For example check what's left: wolfi@Hygiea:~> osc whatdependson openSUSE:Factory mozilla-xulrunner20 standard i586 mozilla-xulrunner20 : PackageKit bundle-lang-gnome-extras chmsee gjs gnome-shell gnome-shell-extensions icedtea-web libproxy-plugins rhythmbox the-board wolfi@Hygiea:~> osc whatdependson openSUSE:Factory mozilla-xulrunner192 standard i586 mozilla-xulrunner192 : google-gadgets libgluezilla0 libreoffice libreoffice-bootstrap libreoffice-components libreoffice-libs-extern moonlight moonshine The stuff above is my current concern. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org