On Tue, Jun 30, Stephan Kulow wrote:

On 30.06.2015 08:05, Olaf Hering wrote:

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On Mon, Jun 29, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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https://build.opensuse.org/project/staging_projects/openSUSE:42

The obvious bug is that 'i386' is enabled for that project. A waste of resources.

Yes and no. gcc48 for example buildrequires glibc-devel-32bit - but if you can find another way to provide these 32bit libraries, we could disable i386

Does it require the entire tree, or just a subset? The few packages in state 'unresolvable' should be disabled. Or perhaps the other way round: the entire i386 gets disabled, and the few required packages which should be provided as -32bit can be enabled. I think that would remove some of the red items in the URL above. Olaf -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 09:24, Stephan Kulow wrote:

For SP1 we set those to ExludeArch: %ix86 and I think this is what we need to do in 42 too.

There are many people still using 32 bit machines and servers. I have one. Also, on virtual machines it is useful to use 32 bit for somewhat smaller footprint. Please don't drop the 32 bit support. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWScQ4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1wtLQD8CElPSgaZRxU1+KsA4fTcpzR4 raOY9PUifRt0rj0frecA/i4LP532M7kecsYfqwSo+4hKluSKsfwkRspM60o++MBD =F3Cm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 19:22, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 7:35 AM, Carlos E. R. <> wrote:

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Please don't drop the 32 bit support.

who will take care of that ?

Who will do everything else? If we have to go somewhere else, we also stop contributing to openSUSE. All contributors are not packagers. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWS02UACgkQja8UbcUWM1xrlwD/X9SNGJMRMgFhqJb+I2L6+v1e DGZwyddJed/PRiKDZv4A/R5YSb5fzRdiYF9c+G8vKm/0toO+1p4QfxRtAc6lViyH =xDvx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-06-30 22:05, Felix Miata wrote:

Carlos E. R. composed on 2015-06-30 19:35 (UTC+0200):

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Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Please don't drop the 32 bit support.

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who will take care of that ?

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Who will do everything else?

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If we have to go somewhere else, we also stop contributing to openSUSE. All contributors are not packagers.

!!!!!

I'm tired of some developers acting dictator. We need them, but they also need the rest of the non developer community. People doing marketing, people writing documentations, wikis, webs, translations. People helping other people with their thousands of problems. Obviously, if they tell community members to go use something else, the contribution of those members go somewhere else, too... And technically, tumbleweed has a full 32 bit repo: http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/ Why has oS:42 got to drop i586? There are probably thousand or millions of server type machine in the home or small business world still using 32 bit hardware. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWTBTMACgkQja8UbcUWM1xWSQEAknn13fiwKWoCY7Ssb7H59+xr XJA/5HRsGkEj0rfbEfgBAIDFzncVYtUrNsDBsqtWQhFO/gthRTliI/1hLUW/QV9s =m1U4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Obviously, if they tell community members to go use something else, the contribution of those members go somewhere else, too...

I am not telling people to go somewhere else, what I am suggesting is to concentrate the limited existing resources in the x86_64 port instead.

And technically, tumbleweed has a full 32 bit repo:

http://download.opensuse.org/tumbleweed/repo/oss/suse/i586/

Why has oS:42 got to drop i586?

OS:42 is an SLE12 remix.. which is not sold for 32 bit x86.

There are probably thousand or millions of server type machine in the home or small business world still using 32 bit hardware.

Then think about it.. why would SUSE (and Redhat too!!) do not sell new products to target this supposedly massive server market? that should ring a few alarms... I have no idea how they really reach that conclusion,. but I 'm pretty sure they have smart people around.. and can make a wild guess..: .there is no such a big demand to economically justify the effort. ..and this means.. oh,oh..there is no profit motive to maintain this architecture in the two leading commercial distributors..and they employ most people to work on this!..ouch.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2015 schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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There are probably thousand or millions of server type machine in the home or small business world still using 32 bit hardware.

Then think about it.. why would SUSE (and Redhat too!!) do not sell new products to target this supposedly massive server market? that should ring a few alarms... I have no idea how they really reach that conclusion,. but I 'm pretty sure they have smart people around.. and can make a wild guess..: .there is no such a big demand to economically justify the effort. ..and this means.. oh,oh..there is no profit motive to maintain this architecture in the two leading commercial distributors..and they employ most people to work on this!..ouch..

Please do not mix up commercial with community distributions. I'm quite sure that companies who invest money on a commercial linux distribution like SLE{S,D} (because they need support etc.) also have enough money to buy a new server - and typical companies [1] often buy "too big" servers instead of what they really need ;-) Therefore it's understandable that SUSE doesn't sell a 32 bit SLE{S,D} - companies usually don't re-use old hardware. OTOH, lots of home users have an old computer (and less money than companies) - and it would be a pity if they had to throw those old computers away instead of using them for something useful [2]. Regards, Christian Boltz [1] at least the not-too-big companies with, let's say, 2 to 30 servers. You'll get different results when you look at the Google datacenter ;-) [2] Just as an example - I still have an old Pentium next to my desk. It's setup as a scan server because I can't connect the scanner directly to my laptop. (Hint: the scanner is even older and is connected to the parallel port ;-) - but still works.) -- These are the requirements for granted correct behavior. If you are not interested in that, I am happy to provide you with a list of data that could be removed from a general Suse installation to let Suse Linux behave similar and to permit booting from time to time only. [Jörg Schiling in https://bugzilla.novell.com/550021#c32] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 1 July 2015 at 01:03, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Dienstag, 30. Juni 2015 schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:

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On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 6:08 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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There are probably thousand or millions of server type machine in the home or small business world still using 32 bit hardware.

Then think about it.. why would SUSE (and Redhat too!!) do not sell new products to target this supposedly massive server market? that should ring a few alarms... I have no idea how they really reach that conclusion,. but I 'm pretty sure they have smart people around.. and can make a wild guess..: .there is no such a big demand to economically justify the effort. ..and this means.. oh,oh..there is no profit motive to maintain this architecture in the two leading commercial distributors..and they employ most people to work on this!..ouch..

Please do not mix up commercial with community distributions.

Agreed, don't mix them up.. If testing & maintaining a 32-bit distribution is economically unfeasible for a commercial distribution, I think we have to think long and hard if it's feasible for us to do it in the community. Do we have enough hardware to test 32-bit? Do we have enough maintainers to patch 32-bit problems? Do we have enough users to justify it? I don't want to outright say No, we shouldn't have a 32-bit distribution, but I do think that's something we should *seriously* consider. Just look at our user numbers, 32-bit downloads of openSUSE Media has now reached terribly low levels..yet the 32-bit arch doubles our test hardware requirements for example... That doesn't seem smart.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-07-01 12:55, Dsant wrote:

Building 64 bits virtual machines, instead of 32 bits, what is the cost ? Any idea ? In memory and disk.

I haven't personally tested, but I could. Not now, though. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlWT8asACgkQja8UbcUWM1x9wwD+JrGwDQ8OGg9bWN5q7JkWqj5s 7pfvBeM0R5/IS7j/5mgA/2BbE6P+U9XqzmAt7O2Fcd2tvqLncJRemgY0+pD+Qr0m =KTrB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 30.06.2015 08:10, Olaf Hering wrote:

On Mon, Jun 29, Stephan Kulow wrote:

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Thanks to Ancor we have a staging dashboard for 42 now too - and it's very red ;(

Why is the GA kernel in use for the x86_64 target? I think it should be 3.12.44+:

https://openqa.opensuse.org/tests/69519/modules/welcome/steps/5

This is all GA and the updates are staged in that dashboard. But I don't think that the newer kernel would fix that very problem - SUSE:SLE-12:Update has 3.12.43 btw Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 30.06.2015 08:48, Andreas Schwab wrote:

Stephan Kulow writes:

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https://build.opensuse.org/project/staging_projects/openSUSE:42

Would it be possible to add the project name (replacing Factory) in the title of the page?

I bet: https://github.com/openSUSE-Team/obs_factory Greetings, Stephan -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org