[opensuse-factory] XFS Boot Problem
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know. I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself? Thanks, Q -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know. I know that I read recently either on this list or some other list
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 05:55, Quentin Jackson
On Friday 28 November 2008 06:55:38 Quentin Jackson wrote:
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know.
I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself?
This is part of our push for bootloader configuration stabilization, there are quite some more checks for what are corner cases and bad practices. AFAIK if you are able to boot on XFS, you are being lucky, as under some conditions boot might fail (bootloader code might not fit into the space in the XFS partition). Thus, YaST will put there a message that /boot directory has to be on ext2/ext3/reiserfs. It's fine to use XFS on / if you have a separate partition for /boot You still have an option to install the bootloader on your own. HTH Stano -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 06:55:38 Quentin Jackson wrote:
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know.
I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself?
This is part of our push for bootloader configuration stabilization, there are quite some more checks for what are corner cases and bad practices.
AFAIK if you are able to boot on XFS, you are being lucky, as under some conditions boot might fail (bootloader code might not fit into the space in the XFS partition). Thus, YaST will put there a message that /boot directory has to be on ext2/ext3/reiserfs. It's fine to use XFS on / if you have a separate partition for /boot
You still have an option to install the bootloader on your own.
HTH
Stano
I am confused, I have a single xfs partition sda1 for root and boot and I haven't experienced any booting problems. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Dave Plater wrote:
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 06:55:38 Quentin Jackson wrote:
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know.
I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself?
This is part of our push for bootloader configuration stabilization, there are quite some more checks for what are corner cases and bad practices.
AFAIK if you are able to boot on XFS, you are being lucky, as under some conditions boot might fail (bootloader code might not fit into the space in the XFS partition). Thus, YaST will put there a message that /boot directory has to be on ext2/ext3/reiserfs. It's fine to use XFS on / if you have a separate partition for /boot
You still have an option to install the bootloader on your own.
HTH
Stano
I am confused, I have a single xfs partition sda1 for root and boot and I haven't experienced any booting problems. Regards Dave P
Same here, perhaps we are the ones called "lucky". Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Sid Boyce wrote:
I am confused, I have a single xfs partition sda1 for root and boot and I haven't experienced any booting problems. Same here, perhaps we are the ones called "lucky".
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years. My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-) Gerald -- Dr. Gerald Pfeifer E gp@novell.com SUSE Linux Products GmbH Director Inbound Product Mgmt T +49(911)74053-0 HRB 16746 (AG Nuremberg) openSUSE/SUSE Linux Enterprise F +49(911)74053-483 GF: Markus Rex -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid problems... ;-) - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkwl0EACgkQtTMYHG2NR9U7ZACfQU39qVhs5eBC2TK80SXzNe9r b1AAnRv1q+Dv7xHt1FKxWTgR36XXRytu =yBjA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 28 November 2008 07:13:35 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid problems... ;-)
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
+1 -- Regards, Rajko -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 07:13:35 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-) Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote: they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid problems... ;-)
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
+1
OK, here is description why this could cause problems. From sources :) http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#grubwork Q: Does GRUB work with XFS? There is native XFS filesystem support for GRUB starting with version 0.91 and onward. Unfortunately, GRUB used to make incorrect assumptions about being able to read a block device image while a filesystem is mounted and actively being written to, which could cause intermittent problems when using XFS. This has reportedly since been fixed, and the 0.97 version (at least) of GRUB is apparently stable. JR -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 01 of December 2008 09:43:17 Josef Reidinger wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 07:13:35 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid problems... ;-)
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
+1
OK, here is description why this could cause problems. From sources :) http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#grubwork
Q: Does GRUB work with XFS?
There is native XFS filesystem support for GRUB starting with version 0.91 and onward. Unfortunately, GRUB used to make incorrect assumptions about being able to read a block device image while a filesystem is mounted and actively being written to, which could cause intermittent problems when using XFS. This has reportedly since been fixed, and the 0.97 version (at least) of GRUB is apparently stable.
You always need to write at least the block numbers of filesystem driver to stage1 so that you are able to load it. XFS does not have a space in boot sector for any booting code. This makes impossible to have a system with /boot on XFS boot other way than installing to an unrelated boot sector (if there is any available partition - really don't recommend it) or to MBR (which e.g. removes the ThinkVantage button functionality on ThinkPad laptops). Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
-----Original Message----- From: Jiri Srain [mailto:jsrain@suse.cz] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:02 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] XFS Boot Problem
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 07:13:35 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid
On Monday 01 of December 2008 09:43:17 Josef Reidinger wrote: problems...
;-)
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
+1
OK, here is description why this could cause problems. From sources :) http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#grubwork
Q: Does GRUB work with XFS?
There is native XFS filesystem support for GRUB starting with version 0.91 and onward. Unfortunately, GRUB used to make incorrect assumptions about being able to read a block device image while a filesystem is mounted and actively being written to, which could cause intermittent problems when using XFS. This has reportedly since been fixed, and the 0.97 version (at least) of GRUB is apparently stable.
You always need to write at least the block numbers of filesystem driver to stage1 so that you are able to load it.
XFS does not have a space in boot sector for any booting code. This makes impossible to have a system with /boot on XFS boot other way than installing to an unrelated boot sector (if there is any available partition - really don't recommend it) or to MBR (which e.g. removes the ThinkVantage button functionality on ThinkPad laptops).
ok guys. i´m little confused. what do you recommend? should i use XFS, or shouldn´t? best regards, Rasto -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 01 of December 2008 10:07:25 Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
-----Original Message----- From: Jiri Srain [mailto:jsrain@suse.cz] Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008 10:02 AM To: opensuse-factory@opensuse.org Subject: Re: [opensuse-factory] XFS Boot Problem
On Monday 01 of December 2008 09:43:17 Josef Reidinger wrote:
Rajko M. wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 07:13:35 pm Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 01:58 +0100, Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Perhaps somebody can explain what the problem is, why it is dangerous and they have been lucky, what can/should they do to avoid
problems...
;-)
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
+1
OK, here is description why this could cause problems. From sources :) http://oss.sgi.com/projects/xfs/faq.html#grubwork
Q: Does GRUB work with XFS?
There is native XFS filesystem support for GRUB starting with version 0.91 and onward. Unfortunately, GRUB used to make incorrect assumptions about being able to read a block device image while a filesystem is mounted and actively being written to, which could cause intermittent problems when using XFS. This has reportedly since been fixed, and the 0.97 version (at least) of GRUB is apparently stable.
You always need to write at least the block numbers of filesystem driver to stage1 so that you are able to load it.
XFS does not have a space in boot sector for any booting code. This makes impossible to have a system with /boot on XFS boot other way than installing to an unrelated boot sector (if there is any available partition - really don't recommend it) or to MBR (which e.g. removes the ThinkVantage button functionality on ThinkPad laptops).
ok guys. i´m little confused. what do you recommend? should i use XFS, or shouldn´t?
Feel free to use it for data, root, or whatever, just do not use it for booting. If you have separate partition for /boot, you can have your system and all data on XFS. Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 10:07 +0100, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
ok guys. i´m little confused. what do you recommend? should i use XFS, or shouldn´t?
I think this is the sum-up: - If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkz6+sACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UBhACfZFs9IxSi+5YEJz0U4ri1cTC5 2BgAn0GxW+B7++ZfhIb6aQ/vDowfP8z6 =8UUB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Monday 01 of December 2008 14:51:38 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 10:07 +0100, Rastislav Krupanský wrote:
ok guys. i´m little confused. what do you recommend? should i use XFS, or shouldn´t?
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS. The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems. Jiri
- grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
-- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be: - If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK. I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkk0EBcACgkQtTMYHG2NR9VfRwCeP6wQw3hYvBmj60tM/AkGIufM Vz8AnjcpyIzjb55TEwkQ95MwZ8PKWvuQ =2Yor -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting.
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
I think you will find that every booting XFS system has grub in the MBR. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Monday 01 of December 2008 17:25:57 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting.
I've put on Wiki the list of scenarios which we internally discussed to support, you can get it at http://en.opensuse.org/Bootloader/Scenarios Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome. As stated in the document, if a scenario is not listed, it does not mean it cannot work - we just cannot guarantee that every possible scenario will work under any circumstances, which is the reason why this document was created. At the moment, only x86_64, i386 and IA64 (resp. GRUB and ELILO) are described in the wiki. Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
What about putting the bootloader on the second ... disk and using the bios to select the drive to boot from? Am 02.12.2008 13:24, Jiri Srain schrieb:
On Monday 01 of December 2008 17:25:57 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting.
I've put on Wiki the list of scenarios which we internally discussed to support, you can get it at
http://en.opensuse.org/Bootloader/Scenarios
Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome.
As stated in the document, if a scenario is not listed, it does not mean it cannot work - we just cannot guarantee that every possible scenario will work under any circumstances, which is the reason why this document was created.
At the moment, only x86_64, i386 and IA64 (resp. GRUB and ELILO) are described in the wiki.
Jiri
-- Joachim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 02 of December 2008 13:28:03 Joachim Reichelt wrote:
What about putting the bootloader on the second ... disk and using the bios to select the drive to boot from?
Then this disk becomes (from the BIOS point of view) the first disk. First disk means disk 0x80 (resp. (hd0) in the GRUB terminology). Actually this is why the detection cannot work reliably - you cannot say which disk will be bootable after you change the boot order from the one for installation to the one for running system. I will add some clarification to the page. Jiri
Am 02.12.2008 13:24, Jiri Srain schrieb:
On Monday 01 of December 2008 17:25:57 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting.
I've put on Wiki the list of scenarios which we internally discussed to support, you can get it at
http://en.opensuse.org/Bootloader/Scenarios
Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome.
As stated in the document, if a scenario is not listed, it does not mean it cannot work - we just cannot guarantee that every possible scenario will work under any circumstances, which is the reason why this document was created.
At the moment, only x86_64, i386 and IA64 (resp. GRUB and ELILO) are described in the wiki.
Jiri
-- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
Am 02.12.2008 13:53, Jiri Srain schrieb:
On Tuesday 02 of December 2008 13:28:03 Joachim Reichelt wrote:
What about putting the bootloader on the second ... disk and using the bios to select the drive to boot from?
Then this disk becomes (from the BIOS point of view) the first disk.
First disk means disk 0x80 (resp. (hd0) in the GRUB terminology). Actually this is why the detection cannot work reliably - you cannot say which disk will be bootable after you change the boot order from the one for installation to the one for running system.
I will add some clarification to the page.
Jiri
The difficulty is, that e.g. opensuse writes the bootsector to the drive it assumes to be drive 0x80 and there is no easy way to change it.
Am 02.12.2008 13:24, Jiri Srain schrieb:
On Monday 01 of December 2008 17:25:57 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Monday, 2008-12-01 at 16:06 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I think this is the sum-up:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK.
Not really, see Josef's mail (and quotation of the documentation). It may work, but it may not. 1st stage needs to contain the block numbers of the filesystem driver, which may be a problem with XFS.
Ah. I see...
The ones below which you marked as Bad cannot work at all. The OKs below shall work without any problems.
Ok, then the table would be:
- If there is no separate /boot partition and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> Bad (might work on ocassion) - grub is in / --> Bad. - If there is a separate /boot partition (recommended ext2) and / is xfs - grub is in MBR --> OK. - grub is in /boot --> OK. - grub is in / --> Bad. - If any non / partition is xfs (and thus, does not hold grub) --> OK.
I'll try to complete the table with the reasons later, time permitting.
I've put on Wiki the list of scenarios which we internally discussed to support, you can get it at
http://en.opensuse.org/Bootloader/Scenarios
Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome.
As stated in the document, if a scenario is not listed, it does not mean it cannot work - we just cannot guarantee that every possible scenario will work under any circumstances, which is the reason why this document was created.
At the moment, only x86_64, i386 and IA64 (resp. GRUB and ELILO) are described in the wiki.
Jiri
-- Joachim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 02 of December 2008 13:56:16 Joachim Reichelt wrote:
Am 02.12.2008 13:53, Jiri Srain schrieb:
On Tuesday 02 of December 2008 13:28:03 Joachim Reichelt wrote:
What about putting the bootloader on the second ... disk and using the bios to select the drive to boot from?
Then this disk becomes (from the BIOS point of view) the first disk.
First disk means disk 0x80 (resp. (hd0) in the GRUB terminology). Actually this is why the detection cannot work reliably - you cannot say which disk will be bootable after you change the boot order from the one for installation to the one for running system.
I will add some clarification to the page.
Jiri
The difficulty is, that e.g. opensuse writes the bootsector to the drive it assumes to be drive 0x80 and there is no easy way to change it.
It is, you can manually select to install boot loader to any device as well as reorder the devices in case the detection went wrong. This can be done via the bootloader module in the installation proposal. Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday, 2008-12-02 at 13:24 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
I've put on Wiki the list of scenarios which we internally discussed to support, you can get it at
Good!
Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome.
How about: ] The /boot partition can hold one of ext2 or ext3 filesystems. reiserfs also works, although not recomended for a separate /boot, but is is ofthen used for "/" without a separate "/boot" partition. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkk1L1MACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XYngCfWnCzSNcvKAbKdoMgtzlBc+Ne zaQAni5bQ8hwiMfRN7qNQ4Gj2nXuEhJO =D+5U -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Tuesday 02 of December 2008 13:51:29 Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Tuesday, 2008-12-02 at 13:24 +0100, Jiri Srain wrote:
Any feedback and suggestions what is missing for the future is welcome.
How about:
] The /boot partition can hold one of ext2 or ext3 filesystems.
reiserfs also works, although not recomended for a separate /boot, but is is ofthen used for "/" without a separate "/boot" partition.
The reason why reiserfs is not mentioned is its complexity; for booting, you should prefer a filesystem which is as simple as possible to avoid problems which Josef posted in regard of XFS. Even though I'm not aware of any single case when reiserfs didn't work for booting, our goal was to define scenarios which we believe that will keep working in the future. I still remember that when reiserfs was introduced, the only way to use it for booting was to disable sharing of a sector by tails of multiple files (notail option). On the other hand, I agree it is not likely that this situation will reappear in the future. Additionally, while ext3 driver is part of the kernel-<flavor>-base package, reiserfs is not (it is in kernel-<flavor>, which may not be installed). Jiri -- Regards, Jiri Srain YaST Team Leader --------------------------------------------------------------------- SUSE LINUX, s.r.o. e-mail: jsrain@suse.cz Lihovarska 1060/12 tel: +420 284 028 959 190 00 Praha 9 fax: +420 284 028 951 Czech Republic http://www.suse.cz
Jiri Srain wrote:
You always need to write at least the block numbers of filesystem driver to stage1 so that you are able to load it.
XFS does not have a space in boot sector for any booting code. This makes impossible to have a system with /boot on XFS boot other way than installing to an unrelated boot sector (if there is any available partition - really don't recommend it) or to MBR (which e.g. removes the ThinkVantage button functionality on ThinkPad laptops).
Jiri
This explains why some of us don't have a problem. XFS works but only if grub is installed in the MBR. Interestingly the XFS faqs suggest MBR installation for lilo and don't mention the problem with grub. Q: Does LILO work with XFS? This depends on where you install LILO. Yes, for MBR (Master Boot Record) installations. No, for root partition installations because the XFS superblock is written at block zero, where LILO would be installed. This is to maintain compatibility with the IRIX on-disk format, and will not be changed. Regards Dave P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Gerald Pfeifer wrote:
On Fri, 28 Nov 2008, Sid Boyce wrote:
I am confused, I have a single xfs partition sda1 for root and boot and I haven't experienced any booting problems. Same here, perhaps we are the ones called "lucky".
I had /boot (or / in case of no extra /boot) on XFS for what must have been two years, too, and can confirm you're just lucky. As I was during most of those two years.
My experience matches Stano's statement: You may be lucky, you may be not -- ultimately it's going to hit, so just don't do it. ;-)
Gerald
It's only one box involved and that was after problems with ext3 and being advised on the list that booting from JFS wasn't guaranteed to work, however, I managed to get JFS to boot. EXT3 seemed too fragile earlier on, but I currently haven't run into subsequent problems with ext3. EXT4???? Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Friday 28 November 2008, Sid Boyce wrote:
Dave Plater wrote:
Stanislav Visnovsky wrote:
On Friday 28 November 2008 06:55:38 Quentin Jackson wrote:
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know.
I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself?
This is part of our push for bootloader configuration stabilization, there are quite some more checks for what are corner cases and bad practices.
AFAIK if you are able to boot on XFS, you are being lucky, as under some conditions boot might fail (bootloader code might not fit into the space in the XFS partition). Thus, YaST will put there a message that /boot directory has to be on ext2/ext3/reiserfs. It's fine to use XFS on / if you have a separate partition for /boot
You still have an option to install the bootloader on your own.
HTH
Stano
I am confused, I have a single xfs partition sda1 for root and boot and I haven't experienced any booting problems. Regards Dave P
Same here, perhaps we are the ones called "lucky". Regards Sid. -- Sid Boyce ... Hamradio License G3VBV, Licensed Private Pilot Emeritus IBM/Amdahl Mainframes and Sun/Fujitsu Servers Tech Support Specialist, Cricket Coach Microsoft Windows Free Zone - Linux used for all Computing Tasks
Had to use Reiserfs for the boot partition on the laptop here running XFS on / would not boot using XFS boot partition. Pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 14:45 -0000, peter nikolic wrote:
Had to use Reiserfs for the boot partition on the laptop here running XFS on /
would not boot using XFS boot partition.
Using reiser for the /boot partition is usually a mistake, because a lot of space is used for the journal. For a small partition, about 100 MiB, it is better to use plain ext2 (not 3). - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkxZkAACgkQtTMYHG2NR9WqggCdE5ppNUoNX6+Ee6JtpzZDypVR ZsUAn1yLDdpcAdAwnb7mqZ0jqpsMRput =DBCi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
On Saturday 29 November 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 14:45 -0000, peter nikolic wrote:
Had to use Reiserfs for the boot partition on the laptop here running XFS on /
would not boot using XFS boot partition.
Using reiser for the /boot partition is usually a mistake, because a lot of space is used for the journal. For a small partition, about 100 MiB, it is better to use plain ext2 (not 3).
-- Cheers, Carlos E. R.
Hi . Yep i realise that but i have this thing about the EXT series file systems i have never had anything bot complete hassle from them so i would rather waste a little space and use a filesystem i know and trust . I only used XFS to test it out and play with a friend of mine wants an MythTV system building shortly backend and 4 frontends the main storage will be XFS . Pete . -- SuSE Linux 10.3-Alpha3. (Linux is like a wigwam - no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside.) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 18:43 -0000, peter nikolic wrote:
On Saturday 29 November 2008, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On Saturday, 2008-11-29 at 14:45 -0000, peter nikolic wrote:
Had to use Reiserfs for the boot partition on the laptop here running XFS on /
would not boot using XFS boot partition.
Using reiser for the /boot partition is usually a mistake, because a lot of space is used for the journal. For a small partition, about 100 MiB, it is better to use plain ext2 (not 3).
Yep i realise that but i have this thing about the EXT series file systems i have never had anything bot complete hassle from them so i would rather waste a little space and use a filesystem i know and trust .
It is not a little space: it is about 30%. It is so little a partition that you will not have problems with it being ext2. Actually, for /boot ext2 (or even ext3) is the type with less problems of all types. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkxpegACgkQtTMYHG2NR9XO0wCfQzRhOKKfBX3zSgYkq6HtEwbM JXcAnA5+1MywVlwbZZwg3kuuJnAJoGez =F7Kp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org
Quentin Jackson wrote:
Anyone know why RC1 suddenly says it won't boot if I make /boot and XFS partition? I've been running XFS as a /boot partition since 10.3 with no problems and never noticed this message before. I'm installing now and don't know if it will or won't work but will let everyone know.
I presume there is a change in code that has meant this message now presents itself?
Because it randomly hangs GRUB during install (and sometimes during update
on a working system) and has done for about 3 years; nobody fixed it and
Ubuntu and Debian and everyone else have had this warning available.
It is apparently down to the way XFS buffers, sometimes it will commit to
disk before GRUB needs the data, sometimes it will not - depending on your
CPU, disk controller, disk, caching, other filesystem mounts, features etc.
it acts very differently.
--
Matt Sealey
participants (14)
-
Carlos E. R. -
Dave Plater -
Gerald Pfeifer -
Jiri Srain -
Joachim Reichelt -
Josef Reidinger -
Matt Sealey -
ne... -
peter nikolic -
Quentin Jackson -
Rajko M. -
Rastislav Krupanský -
Sid Boyce -
Stanislav Visnovsky