[opensuse-factory] firefox, install ESR in parallel
Hi, has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel? I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664 It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.05.2014 15:06, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I haven't really tried but it shouldn't be that hard for the basic stuff.
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
Not sure about this one. Following your argument from bugzilla you don't want rapid changes. Then just decide which one to use but don't ask me to provide the same package multiple times just for name and installation location changes. But in case that enough people support and request this I could be convinced still. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 15:06, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I haven't really tried but it shouldn't be that hard for the basic stuff.
If you would try I'd be glad to test it for openSUSE 13.1.
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
Maybe just try to submit request ESR against Factory? The question is whether you would like to maintain another package during openSUSE release life time.
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
Not sure about this one. Following your argument from bugzilla you don't want rapid changes. Then just decide which one to use but don't ask me to provide the same package multiple times just for name and installation location changes.
In doubt I (as the admin) would decide to install ESR but I have both conservative users and others who want to have new features. For example many of my users have locally installed browers because I don't provide them what they want. That's bad because they certainly don't update regulary for securety updates. Also would be nice to be able to test broken websites with alternative versions quickly. This may be even more important for web developers who want to test their own sites at least with all officially living browser (and ESR is a very important one).
But in case that enough people support and request this I could be convinced still.
Another option whithout more maintenance work would be to use _only_ ESR in Factory. For example we could still update to version 30 and then to the next ESR (31). This would be IMO already much better than having only the latest. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.05.2014 15:59, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 15:06, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I haven't really tried but it shouldn't be that hard for the basic stuff.
If you would try I'd be glad to test it for openSUSE 13.1.
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
Maybe just try to submit request ESR against Factory? The question is whether you would like to maintain another package during openSUSE release life time.
No, I don't from my side. But I maintain it currently anyway with the difference that nobody forces me. So again if there is really a demand for it I might consider it but so far I'm not sure if there is.
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
Not sure about this one. Following your argument from bugzilla you don't want rapid changes. Then just decide which one to use but don't ask me to provide the same package multiple times just for name and installation location changes.
In doubt I (as the admin) would decide to install ESR but I have both conservative users and others who want to have new features. For example many of my users have locally installed browers because I don't provide them what they want. That's bad because they certainly don't update regulary for securety updates.
Also would be nice to be able to test broken websites with alternative versions quickly. This may be even more important for web developers who want to test their own sites at least with all officially living browser (and ESR is a very important one).
But in case that enough people support and request this I could be convinced still.
Another option whithout more maintenance work would be to use _only_ ESR in Factory. For example we could still update to version 30 and then to the next ESR (31). This would be IMO already much better than having only the latest.
Not sure if that is the case. Then I hear already people jumping to Chromium because Firefox "is too old on openSUSE". Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox. Users get those everywhere (Windows, Mac) unless they choose ESR. Anybody knows if Firefox and Firefox ESR are easy to install side-by-side on Windows btw? Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 15:59, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 15:06, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I haven't really tried but it shouldn't be that hard for the basic stuff.
If you would try I'd be glad to test it for openSUSE 13.1.
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
Maybe just try to submit request ESR against Factory? The question is whether you would like to maintain another package during openSUSE release life time.
No, I don't from my side. But I maintain it currently anyway with the difference that nobody forces me. So again if there is really a demand for it I might consider it but so far I'm not sure if there is.
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
Not sure about this one. Following your argument from bugzilla you don't want rapid changes. Then just decide which one to use but don't ask me to provide the same package multiple times just for name and installation location changes.
In doubt I (as the admin) would decide to install ESR but I have both conservative users and others who want to have new features. For example many of my users have locally installed browers because I don't provide them what they want. That's bad because they certainly don't update regulary for securety updates.
Also would be nice to be able to test broken websites with alternative versions quickly. This may be even more important for web developers who want to test their own sites at least with all officially living browser (and ESR is a very important one).
But in case that enough people support and request this I could be convinced still.
Another option whithout more maintenance work would be to use _only_ ESR in Factory. For example we could still update to version 30 and then to the next ESR (31). This would be IMO already much better than having only the latest.
Not sure if that is the case. Then I hear already people jumping to Chromium because Firefox "is too old on openSUSE".
I've wasted hours today because of update 29 and I know that I'll have to do it again next month. That's IMO not a good default and even more bad that we don't provide an official alternative. But maybe this is all debatable. Let's do a first step (before discussing whether only ESR or latest or both should be supported and what should be the default) Could I just submit request mozilla/firefox24esr against openSUSE:Factory/MozillaFirefoxESR or should we go through mozilla:Factory project? Would the renamed package build in Factory without problems? What would be a good name? 1. MozillaFirefoxESR 2. MozillaFirefox-ESR 3. MozillaFirefox-esr I prefer first one.
Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox.
Don't forget all the Evergreen users. They don't complain because they _have_ already esr. I started complaining just now because I've switched the first machine to 13.1 last month. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.05.2014 18:35, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
I've wasted hours today because of update 29 and I know that I'll have to do it again next month. That's IMO not a good default and even more bad that we don't provide an official alternative. But maybe this is all debatable.
Not sure why it took hours but yes, there is progress. In addition the lifetime of ESR does also not match the one from openSUSE. But indeed there are less updates involved in that case.
Let's do a first step (before discussing whether only ESR or latest or both should be supported and what should be the default)
Could I just submit request mozilla/firefox24esr against openSUSE:Factory/MozillaFirefoxESR or should we go through mozilla:Factory project?
mozilla:Factory is the devel project. So yes, it would need to go through it.
Would the renamed package build in Factory without problems?
Yes, but it would not pass duplicate file check w/o modifications since it has conflicts with MozillaFirefox.
What would be a good name? 1. MozillaFirefoxESR 2. MozillaFirefox-ESR 3. MozillaFirefox-esr
I prefer first one.
Not sure. I've often got requests to rename MozillaFirefox to firefox but I didn't do it just for the sake of a name change. If we introduce a new package the question is to have consistency or simplicity. I don't care myself.
Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox.
Don't forget all the Evergreen users. They don't complain because they _have_ already esr. I started complaining just now because I've switched the first machine to 13.1 last month.
They have ESR because it's everything but easy to provide a newer version on 11.4 because of the old dependencies there. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-09 19:44 (GMT+0200) Wolfgang Rosenauer composed:
Ruediger Meier composed:
I've wasted hours today because of update 29 and I know that I'll have to do it again next month. That's IMO not a good default and even more bad that we don't provide an official alternative. But maybe this is all debatable.
Not sure why it took hours...
Maybe because it takes at least one new extension to actually get FF29 to look and work like FF28 instead of that oversimplified Google thing: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/firefox-disable-australis.html -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 18:35, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
I've wasted hours today because of update 29 and I know that I'll have to do it again next month. That's IMO not a good default and even more bad that we don't provide an official alternative. But maybe this is all debatable.
Not sure why it took hours but yes, there is progress.
In addition the lifetime of ESR does also not match the one from openSUSE.
Hm, not a good excuse why we use non-ESR then where lifetime is even shorter. And I don't know much packages were openSUSE follows upstream maintenance or where openSUSE would choose a particular major version just because longer supported by upstream. Thunderbird and FF are really unique packages regarding this update policy.
But indeed there are less updates involved in that case.
Let's do a first step (before discussing whether only ESR or latest or both should be supported and what should be the default)
Could I just submit request mozilla/firefox24esr against openSUSE:Factory/MozillaFirefoxESR or should we go through mozilla:Factory project?
mozilla:Factory is the devel project. So yes, it would need to go through it.
Would the renamed package build in Factory without problems?
Yes,
So could you please link or copy mozilla/firefox24esr to mozilla:Factory/MozillaFirefoxESR Then I would sr it against Factory including a bit motivation/propaganda why we should add it.
but it would not pass duplicate file check w/o modifications since it has conflicts with MozillaFirefox.
Is there really such check? We have already many packages with conflicting files, for example libjpeg62-devel libjpeg8-devel Maybe you could add Conflicts: firefox-esr to the current firefox package like you have already Conflicts: firefox in firefox-esr. Or maybe just both packages should have Provides: firefox Conflicts: otherproviders(firefox) (like you can see similar in libjpeg-devel)
What would be a good name? 1. MozillaFirefoxESR 2. MozillaFirefox-ESR 3. MozillaFirefox-esr
I prefer first one.
Not sure. I've often got requests to rename MozillaFirefox to firefox but I didn't do it just for the sake of a name change. If we introduce a new package the question is to have consistency or simplicity. I don't care myself.
Yep, better no rename and MozillaFirefoxESR for consistency (official name "Mozilla Firefox ESR" without spaces).
Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox.
Don't forget all the Evergreen users. They don't complain because they _have_ already esr. I started complaining just now because I've switched the first machine to 13.1 last month.
They have ESR because it's everything but easy to provide a newer version on 11.4 because of the old dependencies there.
Ah, now I remember. Because of that switch to ESR I've realized that ESR exists at all. Since then I was even more wondering why we follow latest version always. thanks, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-09 17:30, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 15:59, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
Maybe just try to submit request ESR against Factory? The question is whether you would like to maintain another package during openSUSE release life time.
No, I don't from my side. But I maintain it currently anyway with the difference that nobody forces me. So again if there is really a demand for it I might consider it but so far I'm not sure if there is.
I'm a bit confused. You maintain already the normal FF , and also FF ESR somewhere. I don't know if the problem is having both available on the standard OSS repo, so that users choose the conservative version or the edge version, or the problem is having both installed simultaneously?
Another option whithout more maintenance work would be to use _only_ ESR in Factory. For example we could still update to version 30 and then to the next ESR (31). This would be IMO already much better than having only the latest.
Not sure if that is the case. Then I hear already people jumping to Chromium because Firefox "is too old on openSUSE". Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox.
Today I was reading in the opensuse forum some grumbling of people against the changes in FF and looking around to find alternatives. Several hate the disappearance of the menu bar, till someone tells them how to put it back. I'm unsure of what are the issues people have with the new version, besides looks, and buttons changing places - because the menu can be restored easily. Some would like vertical buttons, not rounded. I would like this to be configurable. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNtEG4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1yhoQD+OEbUVvruLQtCKJDE5AYusgp8 fivXXKhvDyY10uvXtw4BAJvE9zWbe9s4yYuNdTZXoRF8uy7BbKMvhxCnammbAC7l =aKkC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 09.05.2014 19:29, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
I'm a bit confused. You maintain already the normal FF , and also FF ESR somewhere. I don't know if the problem is having both available on the standard OSS repo, so that users choose the conservative version or the edge version, or the problem is having both installed simultaneously?
The latter. And also the former because nobody can force me to "maintain" ESR. Having the package in Factory involves some kind of pressure to maintain it though.
Today I was reading in the opensuse forum some grumbling of people against the changes in FF and looking around to find alternatives. Several hate the disappearance of the menu bar, till someone tells them how to put it back.
I'm unsure of what are the issues people have with the new version, besides looks, and buttons changing places - because the menu can be restored easily. Some would like vertical buttons, not rounded. I would like this to be configurable.
People don't like change. Many times I agree. But then again that is the browser world of today. And also the web as of today. ESR is an exception for corporate users. I'm providing it in the build service. It doesn't get more official if it's in Factory since I'm still the one providing it. I'm still not convinced. What I'll look into is what needs to be changed to have them in parallel installable. Wolfgang -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-09 19:50, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Am 09.05.2014 19:29, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
...
I'm still not convinced.
What I'll look into is what needs to be changed to have them in parallel installable.
Wolfgang
Thanks for the explanation. I understand now. Me, I think I prefer the "edge" in this case, but having the possibility to choose would be good (when feasible). In the Evergreen case I do see the advantage of the ESR version. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNtHz4ACgkQja8UbcUWM1w1VQD/fRbIL2s6CqubYzdkUQ+Bx5MN AnStWOG2MN9CUyS1GHgBAJj9TJ03O8mqiBkArx1Wmox+V4pqdpniZebmUj8/nBvP =BUM5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 May 2014, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
What I'll look into is what needs to be changed to have them in parallel installable.
Thanks! BTW do you know whether it's safe for user's config to run different versions alternating? cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Friday 09 May 2014, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Today I was reading in the opensuse forum some grumbling of people against the changes in FF and looking around to find alternatives. Several hate the disappearance of the menu bar, till someone tells them how to put it back.
I'm unsure of what are the issues people have with the new version, besides looks, and buttons changing places - because the menu can be restored easily. Some would like vertical buttons, not rounded. I would like this to be configurable.
IMO it's not easy. For one of the last versions I've wasted a lot time googling to find key browser.tabs.onTop = false Now in 29 they removed that key completely... They often overwrite or ignore certain parts of your config during update. It seems to be a huge waste of time to customize FF at all. BTW FF and Thunderbird chrash whithin my Xephyr setup nowadays. How to fix that? With ESR you have at least one year no stress. Moreover FF usually crashs if updated while running. So using ESR would already safe me 24 FF crashs per year I guess. cu, Rudi -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-09 19:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-09 17:30, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:
Not sure if that is the case. Then I hear already people jumping to Chromium because Firefox "is too old on openSUSE". Again, I'm providing both anyway in the buildservice and I can only work with the data I have and the number of complaints (the ones I see) are very low about the rapid updates of Firefox.
Today I was reading in the opensuse forum some grumbling of people against the changes in FF and looking around to find alternatives. Several hate the disappearance of the menu bar, till someone tells them how to put it back.
Have a look here http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=497744 to read some opinions. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNt4qsACgkQja8UbcUWM1xw4AD/XXQxfUUWR1qxvOIvPBuXdH8w fdkLHBDIZ/LxCmuh5WwA/irI/MT5Ajfkt6BFpiah4caKphnUpgVWWI044fwsCMWS =qisV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Saturday 2014-05-10 10:26, Carlos E. R. wrote:
On 2014-05-09 19:29, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Today I was reading in the opensuse forum some grumbling of people against the changes in FF and looking around to find alternatives. Several hate the disappearance of the menu bar, till someone tells them how to put it back.
Have a look here http://forums.opensuse.org/showthread.php?t=497744 to read some opinions.
If it has not been said yet, I'll mention Seamonkey. That closest to a sane base. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2014-05-10 13:46, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
If it has not been said yet, I'll mention Seamonkey. That closest to a sane base.
I like it, but it has a problem: basically memory foot print. It is the same with thunderbird and firefox, but with them separate I can restart one of the components leaving the other alone, in order to free a lot of memory. Then, both TH and FF crash. My TH crashed just as I was going to reply here. Using Seamonkey, I fear I would double the number of crashes, bringing down both sides simultaneously. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iF4EAREIAAYFAlNuu9UACgkQja8UbcUWM1ySdgD9Fu/Vc1ugw8ESxECltUU0rhlP yMW+/MRsJnvSHo0Y4uoA/3oLq5VhMiqUiIMO5WrcgAvq81y6OwzufI7USENsdDAu =p9ft -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 05/10/2014 07:52 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:
Then, both TH and FF crash. My TH crashed just as I was going to reply here. Using Seamonkey, I fear I would double the number of crashes, bringing down both sides simultaneously.
Yep I am afraid of this too. There are times where Firefox just goes down randomly when I try to do something/addon causes an issue and I dont need thunderbird down while that happens. Vice versa too. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJTbsDGAAoJEN1Kv97drsgTTEsP/0J3p93nTFfaxeOa4C3rWIwr 450a7KknwhVNtYQvahKZMAPisMxgHqLqrGwznuFvKGBzxhFqESkxxPgLlnHar1LN mBwqw+QDY+IEAmvJE2CETXOWcQqfQiPi02JhGmlHGh0zWzFUMc720kEREUQjv1Cr G548dH5SamCDwLWJEKoiygBLwzFpKCFKWwaTR2+688S7BvUKoIibzcPYWJt9UszO oue3pOI5PjBkKHcfYacRU2Nm/GJ61fH28TmJstbVBXUKmTnNd0Jn3iSyGkLo7dMd bT9FgW21hoSz9qBsp2sNE73sEkQrg3Q8Ogz4krJjHjhCciVDU+sBOfBljb4Mggq0 HZS+vNANnQ5VJcVLViihwazDTZ9xL44F8RxsdFhSAxMIeyVhAXz8KbDb8qSw1oeT J7sU9o384Z4Af3hgarnz7YwY3aw711dwfK/AWQohBA5pLpOWc1X13ZN5s7lHjSlc gg4fY2tXUm41TJXw5mcAh15N2qDXNEsIwtsU61bOZNzufj112v8zbbAqeWUAjSIF LHnXDNRaiFynSKqtV6NONJm/SuaKO35LrljBy6YaEL8Kmi9bPZCKAQdf5BC5d0C5 xpLGlEp4XAXms4wctuLr4r/uedoa75l5PpGdq6vaLw9rNS0Ht7RiZeh2KwGTafWD 86H1CPlRHWfiZDUpfK7e =fqR5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-11 01:52 (GMT+0200) Carlos E. R. composed:
I like it, but it has a problem: basically memory foot print. It is the same with thunderbird and firefox, but with them separate I can restart one of the components leaving the other alone, in order to free a lot of memory.
Then, both TH and FF crash. My TH crashed just as I was going to reply here. Using Seamonkey, I fear I would double the number of crashes, bringing down both sides simultaneously.
I've been using SeaMonkey since before it was SeaMonkey, when it was called Mozilla Suite, which means since long before I used Linux as anything but a toy. Crashing was annoyingly frequent using it on OS/2, but since switching to Linux with KDE3 as primary OS and DE, crashing has been quite rare. On OS/2, I rarely used more than one instance of it, although I would occasionally run FF too. The main difference is I ran SM virtually 24/7, closing it briefly according to a timing pattern to do clean profile backups, while FF just for some particular purpose, then closing it. On Linux I run 5 Gecko instances virtually 24/7. I run one SM "next" browser window for one class of browsing functions, plus IRC, typically 15 IRC tabs, plus too many browser tabs to count. I run FF2 for a limited class of functions, 22 tabs currently. I run FF "latest" for a general class of browsing functions, probably much like an average browser user, except for tab count, which I estimate to be between 40 & 50. The most used is SM "current", which is what I use for mailnews, where I never use tabs on purpose, but where in the browser window I estimate I have more tabs open than in all other Gecko browser windows combined, possibly by as much as a factor of two, certainly upwards of 90, maybe upwards of 120. None of those 4 browser sessions are exposed to the Flash plugin. All live in /usr/local/, and come directly from mozilla.org instead of from openSUSE rpms. Browser #5 is FF3 from openSUSE rpm. It too has a certain type of use I limit it to. It currently has 11 tabs open. It's what I most often use if Flash availability is necessary (sometimes I use Chrom* for Flash, rarely using it otherwise). It's the one I most often use when I want to use Domi or the Web Developer extension, which I find easier to use than their modern replacements. All but the one used for mail are usually kept open from the time when I log in until I log out, unless I suspect something somewhere is behaving badly WRT RAM and I log out to fix it. That usually means well in excess of a week, often in excess of a month. The SM used for mail gets restarted 6 nights a week to do clean profile backups. The last "crash" I had in any of the five was too long ago to remember. Last "crash" could have been over a year ago for all I remember. I have had an occasional problem with them freezing and needing to be killed when a page/file had been opened from a CIFS (OS/2 LM share) mount that eventually quit responding, but I don't fault Necko for responding as it does(n't) to broken CIFS. I have several other Gecko profiles I use at various times for various reasons, such as with alphas and younger betas. Last "crash" most likely would have been one of the alphas. Using many different versions and profiles at once requires "no-remote". It is a cmdline option, but I have export MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1 in every .profile on all my systems, which is more convenient than changing start menus. Something else I do that most people probably do not is setting each profile to not use the default location for its cache, which I find pointless to include in backups. DT actions that trigger a web browser to open, something that rarely happens here, cause Konq to open. Maybe in addition to its intended function no-remote also functions as an anti-crasher. I don't know, but my point is fear of crashing should not be a reason not to use SeaMonkey, or FF. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sunday 2014-05-11 01:52, Carlos E. R. wrote:
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On 2014-05-10 13:46, Jan Engelhardt wrote:
If it has not been said yet, I'll mention Seamonkey. That closest to a sane base.
I like it, but it has a problem: basically memory foot print.
Yes, it is logical to think that SM has a larger footprint because it also loads TB. I can even report (personally-biased) observations that, on a tight memory system I used to use (1GB), SM would crash earlier in a pinch. Curious however, to find that, after a fresh start of both, USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND jengelh 26019 11.4 2.3 795340 188684 pts/3 Sl 11:20 0:01 \_ /usr/lib64/firefox/firefox jengelh 26034 11.0 2.3 820780 187732 ? Sl 11:20 0:01 \_ /usr/lib64/seamonkey/seamonkey-bin the RSS is about the same. But if one's got more RAM than the tight equipment inside the cheapest netbooks, the restored usability is likely to offset the reportedly higher memory usage. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-09 17:30 (GMT+0200) Wolfgang Rosenauer composed:
Anybody knows if Firefox and Firefox ESR are easy to install side-by-side on Windows btw?
Installation: easy Not as easy: ensuring that profiles do not get shared across versions. Startup shortcuts need to be configured for profiles specific to each version, but the same applies on Mac and Linux. Sharing profiles across versions is not recommended for reasons that vary according to versions involved. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
* Wolfgang Rosenauer
Am 09.05.2014 15:06, schrieb Ruediger Meier:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I haven't really tried but it shouldn't be that hard for the basic stuff.
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
Not me to decide but packages are available and easily included for Factory if that's the decision.
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
Not sure about this one. Following your argument from bugzilla you don't want rapid changes. Then just decide which one to use but don't ask me to provide the same package multiple times just for name and installation location changes. But in case that enough people support and request this I could be convinced still.
I would also very much appreciate to have ESR in Factory (either in addition to the latest release or as the only one). The frequent and disruptive updates are quite a nuisance if you need to support users. -- Guido Berhoerster -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 2014-05-09 15:06 (GMT+0200) Ruediger Meier composed:
has anybody already tried to build firefox and firefox-esr packages so that they are installable in parallel?
I'd really like to have ESR available officially in openSUSE, see https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790664
It would be even more nice if both version could be installed in parallel to let the user decide which one to use.
All my 13.1 installations have firefox-esr-17.0.11 installed from repositories/mozilla:/legacy. I keep 5 Gecko browsers running 24/7 on the same KDE3 desktop, occasionally starting up a 6th, all except one built by mozilla.org. ~/.bashrc includes export MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1 here. An alternative is including -no-remote on cmdline. -- "The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation) Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks! Felix Miata *** http://fm.no-ip.com/ -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (8)
-
abcli -
Carlos E. R. -
Carlos E. R. -
Felix Miata -
Guido Berhoerster -
Jan Engelhardt -
Ruediger Meier -
Wolfgang Rosenauer