install updates on reboot when needed

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Daniele Granata

30 Jun 2023 30 Jun '23

10:46

Dears, in recent months make a zypper dup cause some problems to my system, logout from kde broken, session that will not close properly keeping open sw like Chromium or DBeaver, all resolved with a hard power off. May I ask some sort of option in zypper dup to apply the file installation only before the next boot? Thank you -- Daniele

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Carlos E. R.

30 Jun 30 Jun

11:10

On 2023-06-30 12:46, Daniele Granata wrote:

...

Dears, in recent months make a zypper dup cause some problems to my system, logout from kde broken, session that will not close properly keeping open sw like Chromium or DBeaver, all resolved with a hard power off. May I ask some sort of option in zypper dup to apply the file installation only before the next boot?

I assume you are using Tumbleeed. My advice is to only run zypper dup when you intend to reboot or power off your machine afterwards. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Johannes Kastl

11:17

Hi Daniele, On 30.06.23 at 12:46 Daniele Granata wrote:

...

Dears, in recent months make a zypper dup cause some problems to my system, logout from kde broken, session that will not close properly keeping open sw like Chromium or DBeaver, all resolved with a hard power off. May I ask some sort of option in zypper dup to apply the file installation only before the next boot?

In case you are willing to re-install your machine, this is something that the transactional-updates used by MicroOS Desktop (now Aeon or Kalpa) are solving. https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Aeon https://en.opensuse.org/Portal:Kalpa But as they require a special partition layout and setup, you would need to reinstall. Other than that, I am only updating from a console while I logged out from the GUI before. This is the safest way I found. Kind Regards, Johannes -- Johannes Kastl Linux Consultant & Trainer Tel.: +49 (0) 151 2372 5802 Mail: kastl@b1-systems.de B1 Systems GmbH Osterfeldstraße 7 / 85088 Vohburg http://www.b1-systems.de GF: Ralph Dehner Unternehmenssitz: Vohburg / AG: Ingolstadt,HRB 3537

Andrei Borzenkov

12:06

On 30.06.2023 13:46, Daniele Granata wrote:

...

Dears, in recent months make a zypper dup cause some problems to my system, logout from kde broken, session that will not close properly keeping open sw like Chromium or DBeaver, all resolved with a hard power off. May I ask some sort of option in zypper dup to apply the file installation only before the next boot?

a) Install discover-notifier and enable offline updates in system settings b) pkcon update --only-download pkcon offline-trigger systemctl reboot

Andrei Dziahel

5 Jul 5 Jul

14:21

I second this answer; using this approach myself for a couple of years now. Works almost always except there are updates for NVIDIA drivers, for which I've created an issue upstream at https://github.com/PackageKit/PackageKit/issues/554 On Fri, Jun 30, 2023 at 2:06 PM Andrei Borzenkov wrote:

...

On 30.06.2023 13:46, Daniele Granata wrote:

...
Dears, in recent months make a zypper dup cause some problems to my system, logout from kde broken, session that will not close properly keeping open sw like Chromium or DBeaver, all resolved with a hard power off. May I ask some sort of option in zypper dup to apply the file installation only before the next boot?

a) Install discover-notifier and enable offline updates in system settings

b)

pkcon update --only-download pkcon offline-trigger systemctl reboot

-- Regards, Andrei Dziahel

Daniele Granata

16:56

Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then. Johannes: Usually I do a reinstall only on new hardware, I'm not planning to do so in the near future but MicroOs seems like an interesting project I will look at. using a CTRL+ Fx to open a new TTY does not resolve the issue, simply it will save me from konsole crash during the installation, closing Plasma leaves me with no WiFi. Andrei's thank you for the tips. I will try your solution. In the meantime I googled around finding https://github.com/openSUSE/transactional-update peraphs it will apply only to MicroOs or Leap and a patched DE greeter to apply the upgrade on logout/reboot. cheers -- Daniele

Patrick Shanahan

19:17

* Daniele Granata [07-05-23 12:59]:

...

Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

you do not *need* to do a reboot until you are ready, but some of the updated packages may not be utilized. If you do "zypper ps -s" and/or "zypper ps -ss" and then "systemctl restart <indicated application>", you can go months w/o rebooting. but at some point rebooting will be required and you *will* notice. my experience with Tumbleweed over many years. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Carlos E. R.

21:36

On 2023-07-05 18:56, Daniele Granata wrote:

...

Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, but that is how things are. If you do not reboot after updates that require it (which are most of them, actually), then do not bother to install the updates. They are not actually applied till you restart all the affected programs (which is a chore, sometimes difficult, and sometimes impossible), or reboot (which is far simpler and often faster). See this thread: List-Archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/ for an example of strange things that happened to me once I forgot to reboot after an update. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Patrick Shanahan

21:55

* Carlos E. R. [07-05-23 17:38]:

...

On 2023-07-05 18:56, Daniele Granata wrote:

...
Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, but that is how things are. If you do not reboot after updates that require it (which are most of them, actually),

*actually*, only kernel and dbus updates require rebooting iirc.

...

then do not bother to install the updates. They are not actually applied till you restart all the affected programs (which is a chore, sometimes difficult, and sometimes impossible), or reboot (which is far simpler and often faster).

not my long experience with Tumbleweed.

...

See this thread:

List-Archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/

for an example of strange things that happened to me once I forgot to reboot after an update.

and I have a little used laptop, <uptime> 17:52:51 up 273 days 7:59, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.19, 0.18 which is updated daily. your experiences apparently are not universal. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Carlos E. R.

23:29

On 2023-07-05 23:55, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...

* Carlos E. R. [07-05-23 17:38]:

...
On 2023-07-05 18:56, Daniele Granata wrote:

...
Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, but that is how things are. If you do not reboot after updates that require it (which are most of them, actually),

*actually*, only kernel and dbus updates require rebooting iirc.

...
then do not bother to install the updates. They are not actually applied till you restart all the affected programs (which is a chore, sometimes difficult, and sometimes impossible), or reboot (which is far simpler and often faster).

not my long experience with Tumbleweed.

...
See this thread:

List-Archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/

for an example of strange things that happened to me once I forgot to reboot after an update.

and I have a little used laptop, <uptime> 17:52:51 up 273 days 7:59, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.19, 0.18 which is updated daily.

your experiences apparently are not universal.

Sorry, this is incorrect, but I will not argue the issue with you. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Patrick Shanahan

6 Jul 6 Jul

00:47

* Carlos E. R. [07-05-23 19:39]:

...

On 2023-07-05 23:55, Patrick Shanahan wrote:

...
* Carlos E. R. [07-05-23 17:38]:

...
On 2023-07-05 18:56, Daniele Granata wrote:

...
Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, but that is how things are. If you do not reboot after updates that require it (which are most of them, actually),

*actually*, only kernel and dbus updates require rebooting iirc.

...
then do not bother to install the updates. They are not actually applied till you restart all the affected programs (which is a chore, sometimes difficult, and sometimes impossible), or reboot (which is far simpler and often faster).

not my long experience with Tumbleweed.

...
See this thread:

List-Archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/

for an example of strange things that happened to me once I forgot to reboot after an update.

and I have a little used laptop, <uptime> 17:52:51 up 273 days 7:59, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.19, 0.18 which is updated daily.

your experiences apparently are not universal.

Sorry, this is incorrect, but I will not argue the issue with you.

don't know about "incorrect" as I am conversing with you now on that laptop. I reboot when it is convenient to me and does not interrupt my routine. and have for many years. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Daniele Granata

09:06

Hi Carlos, "My advice is to only run zypper dup when you intend to reboot or power off your machine afterwards." Are yours not mine. I'm aware that only specific updates need a reboot and that is a thing. I'm not saying "the machine should update without reboot", but "the machine should update before power off or on the next power on". An example: KDE updates every month, after zypper dup I'm not able to logout because the greeter crashes so I need to CTRL+ALT+DELETE to close X losing the current session. The same will not occur if the installation goes on on reboot or before power off. Better if the greeter asks me if I want to install the updates or reboot without. These are little stupid things but made life easier. With zypper we have snapshots but we use them only to go back. Why not use them to go forward? Patrick, my use case is similar, sometimes I reach a peak of 2 month uptime, I'm on NVIDIA and so I skip kernel's upgrade very often. Please do not use an innocent request to become aggressive. Thanks -- Daniele

Andrei Borzenkov

09:16

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 12:07 PM Daniele Granata wrote:

...

With zypper we have snapshots but we use them only to go back. Why not use them to go forward?

That is what transactional-update does on MicroOS. I do not know if it also supports standard installation (filesystem layout is different), but it should certainly be possible to add this support if needed.

Carlos E. R.

09:31

On 2023-07-06 11:06, Daniele Granata wrote:

...

Hi Carlos, "My advice is to only run zypper dup when you intend to reboot or power off your machine afterwards." Are yours not mine. I'm aware that only specific updates need a reboot and that is a thing. I'm not saying "the machine should update without reboot", but "the machine should update before power off or on the next power on".

My advice can be understood as "only update at the times that if zypper says at the end says that you should reboot, you can do so right then". If it doesn't say to reboot, then fine, don't reboot; but run "zypper ps" and restart everything affected that is on the list, if you know how. If you don't know how, then just reboot because it is easier and faster. So, it is not that I advise you to reboot everytime you update, but only update if you are prepared to accept a reboot if the system advises you to. If a reboot will not be convenient even if recommended, then just don't update.

...

An example: KDE updates every month, after zypper dup I'm not able to logout because the greeter crashes so I need to CTRL+ALT+DELETE to close X losing the current session.

There is another recommendation to run zypper dup in text mode, never in graphical mode :-p

...

The same will not occur if the installation goes on on reboot or before power off. Better if the greeter asks me if I want to install the updates or reboot without. These are little stupid things but made life easier. With zypper we have snapshots but we use them only to go back. Why not use them to go forward? Patrick, my use case is similar, sometimes I reach a peak of 2 month uptime, I'm on NVIDIA and so I skip kernel's upgrade very often.

Please do not use an innocent request to become aggressive.

Sorry, I'm not, not intended :-) It is only that I know Patrick and what he does, which is a not recommended method, and I'm not willing to argue with him about this, again ;-) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

Daniele Granata

12:06

Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 11:32 Carlos E. R. < robin.listas@telefonica.net> ha scritto:

...

There is another recommendation to run zypper dup in text mode, never in graphical mode :-p It seems that there will be a SSDM upgrade in the future that will keep WiFi alive after logout, until then I have no choice. No, I don't want to logout from KDE, login in another TTY use nm-cli to establish a connection and then zypper dup ;)

Andrei Borzenkov

12:13

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023 at 3:06 PM Daniele Granata wrote:

...

It seems that there will be a SSDM upgrade in the future that will keep WiFi alive after logout, until then I have no choice.

Have you ever heard about system vs. user connections in NetworkManager? I do not know what SSDM is, if you mean SDDM - it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Manfred Schwarb

12:26

Am 06.07.23 um 14:06 schrieb Daniele Granata:

...

Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 11:32 Carlos E. R. < robin.listas@telefonica.net> ha scritto:

...
There is another recommendation to run zypper dup in text mode, never in graphical mode :-p It seems that there will be a SSDM upgrade in the future that will keep WiFi alive after logout, until then I have no choice. No, I don't want to logout from KDE, login in another TTY use nm-cli to establish a connection and then zypper dup ;)

No need to logout, simply ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to console, alt-f7 to switch back.

Daniele Granata

14:00

Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 14:26 Manfred Schwarb ha scritto:

...

Am 06.07.23 um 14:06 schrieb Daniele Granata:

...
Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 11:32 Carlos E. R. < robin.listas@telefonica.net> ha scritto:

...
There is another recommendation to run zypper dup in text mode, never in graphical mode :-p It seems that there will be a SSDM upgrade in the future that will keep WiFi alive after logout, until then I have no choice. No, I don't want to logout from KDE, login in another TTY use nm-cli to establish a connection and then zypper dup ;)

No need to logout, simply ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to console, alt-f7 to switch back.

Change the terminal will ensure that no graphical related problem occurs, but the greeter will crash anyway once KDE will be updated. -- Daniele

Patrick Shanahan

14:28

* Daniele Granata [07-06-23 10:07]:

...

Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 14:26 Manfred Schwarb ha scritto:

...
Am 06.07.23 um 14:06 schrieb Daniele Granata:

...
Il giorno gio 6 lug 2023 alle ore 11:32 Carlos E. R. < robin.listas@telefonica.net> ha scritto:

...
There is another recommendation to run zypper dup in text mode, never in graphical mode :-p It seems that there will be a SSDM upgrade in the future that will keep WiFi alive after logout, until then I have no choice. No, I don't want to logout from KDE, login in another TTY use nm-cli to establish a connection and then zypper dup ;)

No need to logout, simply ctrl-alt-f1 to switch to console, alt-f7 to switch back.

Change the terminal will ensure that no graphical related problem occurs, but the greeter will crash anyway once KDE will be updated.

running zypper in an xterm/konsole/... should have no bearing on subsequent boots past the applications being installed. I nearly always perform dup's in that manner. I would suggest that you have a broken system. have you attempted reinstall of sddm or changing to xdm? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member facebook/ptilopteri Photos: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/piwigo paka @ IRCnet oftc

Carlos E. R.

5 Jul 5 Jul

23:19

On 2023-07-05 23:36, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2023-07-05 18:56, Daniele Granata wrote:

...
Carlos: yes I'm on Tumbleweed but I'm not comfortable with your solution, fire the upgrade only when I'm ready to reboot means waiting 2000 packages to install to reboot once in a month or reboot every now and then.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not, but that is how things are. If you do not reboot after updates that require it (which are most of them, actually), then do not bother to install the updates. They are not actually applied till you restart all the affected programs (which is a chore, sometimes difficult, and sometimes impossible), or reboot (which is far simpler and often faster).

See this thread:

List-Archive: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/

for an example of strange things that happened to me once I forgot to reboot after an update.

Oops. That link is the entire mail list — thanks Robert for telling me :-D Archived-At: https://lists.opensuse.org/archives/list/users@lists.opensuse.org/message/AO... -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.4 x86_64 at Telcontar)

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Andrei Borzenkov
Andrei Dziahel
Carlos E. R.
Daniele Granata
Johannes Kastl
Manfred Schwarb
Patrick Shanahan

install updates on reboot when needed

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