Le 24/03/2011 08:49, Hans Witvliet a écrit :

Untill then, regretably, no chance of looking at Tumbleweed...

what I understood is that tumbleweed is only a factory variant, with software flagged as stable by the packager, but Im far from understanding all. so may be it's enought to build for factory? jdd -- http://www.dodin.net http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xgxog7_clip-l-ombre-et-la-lumiere-3-bad-pig... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGgv_ZFtV14 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 09:14:01AM +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 08:53:28AM +0100, jdd wrote:

...

Le 24/03/2011 08:49, Hans Witvliet a écrit :

...

Untill then, regretably, no chance of looking at Tumbleweed...

what I understood is that tumbleweed is only a factory variant, with software flagged as stable by the packager, but Im far from understanding all.

It is not a "Factory variant", but a "more up to date stable" variant.

...

so may be it's enought to build for factory?

No, that will not work. Or it might, but you will be linking against the wrong libraries so bad things could happen later.

No, you should be able to build against 11.4 (which is Tumbleweed based on currently) and use those packages.

Also the enhanced repository add dialog should have Tumbleweed for selection, it is probably just not in the shortcut selection list.

Yes, it is in the enhanced selection if you want to build against it. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote:

...

Hello Mates,

i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found Tumbleweed. Can i build against Tumbleweed?

cu Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO. You can either use the advanced interface when adding a repo or edit your project meta directly either via webui or via commandline: osc meta prj -e $YOUR_PROJECT add something like this for adding tumbleweed: <repository name="openSUSE_Tumbleweed"> <path project="openSUSE:Tumbleweed" repository="standard"/> <arch>i586</arch> <arch>x86_64</arch> </repository>

Down the list, i asked Greg-KH what i should use, as some of the packaged i use (from the OBS) are only build for the regular 11_x, SLE_y or factory, but _not_ for openSUSE_Tumbleweed.

Untill then, regretably, no chance of looking at Tumbleweed...

-- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 07:46:40 schrieb Greg KH:

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07:21AM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

...

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote:

...

Hello Mates,

i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found Tumbleweed. Can i build against Tumbleweed?

cu Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO.

It is? It looks out of "development phase" to me. What would have to happen to make it move out of that for you to feel comfortable with it?

Well, no one asked me yet to add it to the simple default list, so it must be still in development ;) But I suppose you just did that, so I add it to the default list now ... -- Adrian Schroeter SUSE Linux Products GmbH email: adrian@suse.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Hi Adrian, hi List, Adrian Schröter wrote at Thursday 24 March 2011:

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 07:46:40 schrieb Greg KH:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07:21AM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

...

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote:

...

Hello Mates,

i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found Tumbleweed. Can i build against Tumbleweed?

cu Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO.

It is? It looks out of "development phase" to me. What would have to happen to make it move out of that for you to feel comfortable with it?

Well, no one asked me yet to add it to the simple default list, so it must be still in development ;)

But I suppose you just did that, so I add it to the default list now Maybe we (you ;-) ) can make an Announcement of that? -- Sincerely Yours

Sascha Manns open-slx Community & Support Agent openSUSE Membership Comitee openSUSE Marketing Team Web: http://saigkill.homelinux.net German Community Portal: http://community.open-slx.de -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 04:06:22PM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07:21AM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

...

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote:

...

Hello Mates,

i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found Tumbleweed. Can i build against Tumbleweed?

cu Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO.

It is? It looks out of "development phase" to me. What would have to happen to make it move out of that for you to feel comfortable with it?

I don't think you want to build against tumbleweed. Isn't tumbleweed a repo where I am supposed to be able to "pick" new versions from for 11.4?

No.

If so building against tumbleweed would cause excessive dependencies to be pulled from it.

I don't understand what this means, how could this happen? Tumbleweed is "just" openSUSE:11.4 with updated packages that are in Factory pulled into it to make it easier for users to stay up-to-date with newer stable packages. For example, the kernel in Tumbleweed right now is at 2.6.38, while it will remain at 2.6.37 in the openSUSE:11.4 repo for forever. It also has updated versions of Samba and a number of other packages. See the openSUSE wiki page for more details about what Tumbleweed is if you are curious. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 04:49:07PM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 04:06:22PM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07:21AM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

...

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote: > Hello Mates, > > i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found > Tumbleweed. > Can i build against Tumbleweed? > > cu > Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO.

It is? It looks out of "development phase" to me. What would have to happen to make it move out of that for you to feel comfortable with it?

I don't think you want to build against tumbleweed. Isn't tumbleweed a repo where I am supposed to be able to "pick" new versions from for 11.4?

No.

Your comment below suggests otherwise.

...

...

If so building against tumbleweed would cause excessive dependencies to be pulled from it.

I don't understand what this means, how could this happen?

If I want program FOO in a new version I add tumbleweed as repo to my 11.4 and do zypper install FOO. If FOO is built against tumbleweed then might link agains LIBBAR which is of a new version in tumbleweed. This will cause LIBBAR to be updated for me, eventually breaking binaries that were built against LIBBAR in 11.4.

No, see below.

...

Tumbleweed is "just" openSUSE:11.4 with updated packages that are in Factory pulled into it to make it easier for users to stay up-to-date with newer stable packages.

For example, the kernel in Tumbleweed right now is at 2.6.38, while it will remain at 2.6.37 in the openSUSE:11.4 repo for forever.

It also has updated versions of Samba and a number of other packages. See the openSUSE wiki page for more details about what Tumbleweed is if you are curious.

So you never update libraries in Tumbleweed? Or if you update a library in Tumbleweed you make sure to also re-build all users of that library in Tumbleweed?

If I update a library in Tumbleweed, I will rebuild all users of that library in the openSUSE:11.4 tree and add it to the Tumbleweed repo so that there are no problems. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 05:15:04PM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 09:03:19 schrieb Greg KH:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 04:49:07PM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote: ...

...

Tumbleweed is "just" openSUSE:11.4 with updated packages that are in Factory pulled into it to make it easier for users to stay up-to-date with newer stable packages.

For example, the kernel in Tumbleweed right now is at 2.6.38, while it will remain at 2.6.37 in the openSUSE:11.4 repo for forever.

It also has updated versions of Samba and a number of other packages. See the openSUSE wiki page for more details about what Tumbleweed is if you are curious.

So you never update libraries in Tumbleweed? Or if you update a library in Tumbleweed you make sure to also re-build all users of that library in Tumbleweed?

If I update a library in Tumbleweed, I will rebuild all users of that library in the openSUSE:11.4 tree and add it to the Tumbleweed repo so that there are no problems.

You may want to do this via a project link plus the linkedbuild="localdep" scheduler switch to let OBS pick the dependening packages from openSUSE:11.4 project automatically:

http://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Concept_build_scheduling_strat...

That's great, but that means I need to import the links to those packages into Tumbleweed first, right? And if I do that, I thought that obs would rebuild them as needed if the library changed. In other words, I thought this was they way it "always" happened and that I didn't need to set anything special like "localdep". Or am I mistaken? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Richard Guenther wrote:

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 04:06:22PM +0100, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

On Thu, 24 Mar 2011, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 10:07:21AM +0100, Adrian Schröter wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag, 24. März 2011, 08:49:32 schrieb Hans Witvliet:

...

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 08:26 +0100, Sascha Manns wrote: > Hello Mates, > > i've just checked the possible Build Targets, but i've not found > Tumbleweed. > Can i build against Tumbleweed? > > cu > Sascha

Seems not to be possible, or builders are not interested in it.

You can always build against any repository in OBS. We just have not added it to the "simple list" yet, because it is still in develpoment phase IMHO.

It is?  It looks out of "development phase" to me.  What would have to happen to make it move out of that for you to feel comfortable with it?

I don't think you want to build against tumbleweed.  Isn't tumbleweed a repo where I am supposed to be able to "pick" new versions from for 11.4?

No.

Your comment below suggests otherwise.

...

...

If so building against tumbleweed would cause excessive dependencies to be pulled from it.

I don't understand what this means, how could this happen?

If I want program FOO in a new version I add tumbleweed as repo to my 11.4 and do zypper install FOO.  If FOO is built against tumbleweed then might link agains LIBBAR which is of a new version in tumbleweed.  This will cause LIBBAR to be updated for me, eventually breaking binaries that were built against LIBBAR in 11.4.

...

Tumbleweed is "just" openSUSE:11.4 with updated packages that are in Factory pulled into it to make it easier for users to stay up-to-date with newer stable packages.

For example, the kernel in Tumbleweed right now is at 2.6.38, while it will remain at 2.6.37 in the openSUSE:11.4 repo for forever.

It also has updated versions of Samba and a number of other packages. See the openSUSE wiki page for more details about what Tumbleweed is if you are curious.

So you never update libraries in Tumbleweed?  Or if you update a library in Tumbleweed you make sure to also re-build all users of that library in Tumbleweed?

Thanks, Richard.

I had assumed zypper / rpm would refuse to pull a library update that broke a dependency? (Or at least the user would get the dependency conflict choices.) Or that the old library would be left in place in parallel. Greg -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:33:50PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

Should be more honest.... There _are_ people who build addon repo's for openSUSE_Tumbleweed: - repo/driver:/ - repo/security:/

Odd, why are these building against Tumbleweed? Wait, I looked in driver:* and don't see any tumbleweed repos selected, where are you seeing this?

- home:/Grieff/ - home:/Milliams/ - home:/Nite_0wl/ - home:/NoseyNick/ - home:/RedDwarf/ - home:/Vovochka404/ - home:/bmanojlovic:/ - home:/gregfreemyer:/ - home:/jvrdld/ - home:/matteotomasoni/ - home:/openttdcoop/ - home:/polyconvex/ - home:/renekrell/ - home:/saigkill/ - home:/seife:/ - home:/tschuett/

and probably some more... (would be nice if apache-modules, server, network etc would be there also)

Why? Why wouldn't those have their packages in the tumbleweed repo so that they don't need the build target in their repo? As always, if there are packages anyone wants to see in Tumbleweed, please let me know. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

2011/3/24 Greg KH :

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:33:50PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

- home:/Grieff/ - home:/Milliams/ - home:/Nite_0wl/ - home:/NoseyNick/ - home:/RedDwarf/ - home:/Vovochka404/ - home:/bmanojlovic:/ - home:/gregfreemyer:/ - home:/jvrdld/ - home:/matteotomasoni/ - home:/openttdcoop/ - home:/polyconvex/ - home:/renekrell/ - home:/saigkill/ - home:/seife:/ - home:/tschuett/

and probably some more... (would be nice if apache-modules, server, network etc would be there also)

Why?  Why wouldn't those have their packages in the tumbleweed repo so that they don't need the build target in their repo?

Because of the same reason those packages were there even before Tumbleweed existed. For some reason they are good to have for some people, that's why they were packaged, but we don't want to do a real maintainership and submit them to Factory. There are packages people cares more about than others... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:58:07PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

On Thu, 2011-03-24 at 15:43 -0700, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:33:50PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

Should be more honest.... There _are_ people who build addon repo's for openSUSE_Tumbleweed: - repo/driver:/ - repo/security:/

Odd, why are these building against Tumbleweed?

Wait, I looked in driver:* and don't see any tumbleweed repos selected, where are you seeing this?

in

...

http://ftp5.gwdg.de/pub/opensuse/repositories/security:/OpenVAS:/STABLE:/v4/...

Ah yeah, there are openvas packages not in Factory, I forgot about them.

...

...

- home:/Grieff/ - home:/Milliams/ - home:/Nite_0wl/ - home:/NoseyNick/ - home:/RedDwarf/ - home:/Vovochka404/ - home:/bmanojlovic:/ - home:/gregfreemyer:/ - home:/jvrdld/ - home:/matteotomasoni/ - home:/openttdcoop/ - home:/polyconvex/ - home:/renekrell/ - home:/saigkill/ - home:/seife:/ - home:/tschuett/

and probably some more... (would be nice if apache-modules, server, network etc would be there also)

Why? Why wouldn't those have their packages in the tumbleweed repo so that they don't need the build target in their repo? Why? If i understood one of your previous messages correctly, if you switch your base-system towards tumbleweed, you should not have your addons set to 11.4 or factory....

Yes, you are correct. Ok, for home projects it makes sense, nevermind :)

...

As always, if there are packages anyone wants to see in Tumbleweed, please let me know.

I presume that we (mere mortels) should ask the respective maintainers of those packages, not?

Sure, or I can if you want me to. thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 07:08:30PM -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:33:50PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

Should be more honest.... There _are_ people who build addon repo's for openSUSE_Tumbleweed: - repo/driver:/ - repo/security:/

Odd, why are these building against Tumbleweed?

Wait, I looked in driver:* and don't see any tumbleweed repos selected, where are you seeing this?

I'd like to see d:l:p have the tumbleweed repo as a build target.

What is "d:l:p"?

There are at least a few of those packages I build against that are not in factory and thus not eligible for being directly in tumbleweed.

Why aren't they in Factory? What keeps packages out of it? thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kleine wrote:

On Friday March 25 2011 01:46:53 Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 07:08:30PM -0400, Greg Freemyer wrote:

...

There are at least a few of those packages I build against that are not in factory and thus not eligible for being directly in tumbleweed.

Why aren't they in Factory? What keeps packages out of it?

E.g. one not wanting to backport security fixes for the time a openSUSE version is maintained.

11.2 will reach EOL soon. There are 399 source packages in the update channel of which 158 are referenced by a security update. The total number of sources packages in 11.2 is 3527+15 = 3542. So only 4.5% of the packages required a security update during the life time of 11.2. I didn't count how many of them were fixed by upgrading to the next minor version from upstream. So the argument is pretty lame. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 11:01:46AM +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Am Freitag, 25. März 2011 schrieb Greg Freemyer:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Greg KH wrote:

...

On Thu, Mar 24, 2011 at 11:33:50PM +0100, Hans Witvliet wrote:

...

Should be more honest.... There _are_ people who build addon repo's for openSUSE_Tumbleweed: - repo/driver:/ - repo/security:/

Odd, why are these building against Tumbleweed?

Wait, I looked in driver:* and don't see any tumbleweed repos selected, where are you seeing this?

I'd like to see d:l:p have the tumbleweed repo as a build target. There are at least a few of those packages I build against that are not in factory and thus not eligible for being directly in tumbleweed.

As long as tumbleweed has no own perl version, I see no need - 11.4 packages will work fine. And dl:perl (there is also :python with p btw) is really huge and we shouldn't waste resources without need.

I agree, if we decide to upgrade python or perl in Tumbleweed, then this might be needed. But that's something we will have to wait and see... thanks, greg k-h -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org