[opensuse-factory] Proposal: Splitting this list in half or maybe thirds.

Simon Lees

25 Aug 2015 25 Aug '15

13:33

Hi All, This list is quite high traffic which makes it quite hard to follow for someone working as a openSUSE packager in there spare time, this means that on the odd occasion its quite easy to miss things. It strikes me that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly packaging info and discussion relevant to developing openSUSE, the second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE. As factory has become more popular the volume of the second type of traffic has become much larger, as such i'd appreciate it at least if we could split the list in half, so that the bug and issue reports go to a new list, maybe two, one for tumbleweed issues and another for leap development issues. On my laptop where there's decent mail client its easy enough to ignore threads that arn't relevant to development but if I don't have easy access to that its hard to filter on my phone or the web archives. Anyone else have thoughts? Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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Tomáš Chvátal

25 Aug 25 Aug

13:42

Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 23:03:34, Simon Lees napsal(a):

...

Hi All,

This list is quite high traffic which makes it quite hard to follow for someone working as a openSUSE packager in there spare time, this means that on the odd occasion its quite easy to miss things. It strikes me that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly packaging info and discussion relevant to developing openSUSE, the second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE. As factory has become more popular the volume of the second type of traffic has become much larger, as such i'd appreciate it at least if we could split the list in half, so that the bug and issue reports go to a new list, maybe two, one for tumbleweed issues and another for leap development issues. On my laptop where there's decent mail client its easy enough to ignore threads that arn't relevant to development but if I don't have easy access to that its hard to filter on my phone or the web archives.

Anyone else have thoughts?

The second kind of traffic should not go here at all. But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports. Thus spliting the list does not help much, as people will keep sending those mails here anyway. Leap and TW developement discussions should stay here, because in frank reality this is more like opensuse-devel mailinglist (even if not in name) and renaming just for sake of it is not really worth it. HTH Tom

Adam Tauno Williams

13:54

...

...
that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE. The second kind of traffic should not go here at all.

Other than several pages that instruct Tumbleweed users to report issues to Factory... ? If you post to the users list saying you use TW you'll get grumpy responses telling you to go to Factory.

...

But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports.

No fear or unwillingness, I have filed plenty of bug reports. However bug reports are *slow* and many many people will never know a bug reports exists. As with my recent issues with LO on TW I needed to know if others were experiencing the issue [in this case: yes] so I know if it is 'just me' or a 'real problem'. I need to work around the problem quickly as I am a *user* [as in I use a computer to do stuff I need to do].

...

Thus spliting the list does not help much, as people will keep sending those mails here anyway.

Yes. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Tomáš Chvátal

14:19

Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 09:54:03, Adam Tauno Williams napsal(a):

...

...
...
that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE.

The second kind of traffic should not go here at all.

Other than several pages that instruct Tumbleweed users to report issues to Factory... ?

If you post to the users list saying you use TW you'll get grumpy responses telling you to go to Factory.

You are right it was worded poorly on the portal page. Tweaked up the wikipage to point more clearly to bugzilla.

...

...
But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports.

No fear or unwillingness, I have filed plenty of bug reports. However bug reports are *slow* and many many people will never know a bug reports exists. As with my recent issues with LO on TW I needed to know if others were experiencing the issue [in this case: yes] so I know if it is 'just me' or a 'real problem'. I need to work around the problem quickly as I am a *user* [as in I use a computer to do stuff I need to do].

And if you would bother to open bugzilla and write libreoffice to the search field you would notice there is a recent bug about your problem. Even containing workaround for your problem. So you could've just looked and got with your solution. Yet you asked here and to this point you got just one me too response and no workaround... Usually you won't get so fast turnaround on the bugzilla, but effectively you can make it faster if you ask for bugowner of the package and assign him the issue instead of waiting for screening team. Example on the libreoffice First I figure out who is the bugowner: scarabeus@bugaboo: ~ $ osc bugowner libreoffice -e Defined in package: LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice bugowner of libreoffice : tchvatal@suse.com Tada, now I open a bugzilla and write up a new bugreport and assign it to tchvatal@suse.com. Done, I usually reply quite fast so in 24 hours you would get at least some question/info request. If you seriously need faster support than that you are obviously using wrong distribution for your needs ;-) Tom

Adam Tauno Williams

15:08

On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 16:19 +0200, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:

...

And if you would bother to open bugzilla and write libreoffice to the search field you would notice there is a recent bug about your problem. Even containing workaround for your problem. So you could've just looked and got with your solution. Yet you asked here and to this point you got just one me too response and no workaround...

Really, because I did search, and searching now, still not finding anything. <https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_s tatus=NEW&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&bug_status=REOPEN ED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&component=LibreOffice&f0=OP& f1=OP&f10=short_desc&f11=status_whiteboard&f12=content&f13=CP&f14=CP&f2 =product&f3=CP&f4=CP&f5=OP&f6=OP&f7=product&f8=component&f9=alias&j1=OR &j6=OR&o10=substring&o11=substring&o12=matches&o2=substring&o7=substrin g&o8=substring&o9=substring&product=openSUSE%20Factory&query_format=adv anced&short_desc=slide&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&v10=libreoffice&v 11=libreoffice&v12=%22libreoffice%22&v2=openSUSE%20Factory&v7=libreoffi ce&v8=libreoffice&v9=libreoffice> Tried numerous searches.

...

Example on the libreoffice First I figure out who is the bugowner:

...
scarabeus@bugaboo: ~ $ osc bugowner libreoffice -e Defined in package: LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice bugowner of libreoffice : tchvatal@suse.com Tada, now I open a bugzilla and write up a new bugreport and assign it to chvatal@suse.com.

Done, usually reply quite fast so in 24 hours you would get at least some question/info request. If you seriously need faster support than that you are obviously using wrong distribution for your needs ;-)

-- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Tomáš Chvátal

15:21

Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 11:08:14, Adam Tauno Williams napsal(a):

...

https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_s tatus=NEW&bug_status=CONFIRMED&bug_status=IN_PROGRESS&bug_status=REOPEN ED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&component=LibreOffice&f0=OP& f1=OP&f10=short_desc&f11=status_whiteboard&f12=content&f13=CP&f14=CP&f2 =product&f3=CP&f4=CP&f5=OP&f6=OP&f7=product&f8=component&f9=alias&j1=OR &j6=OR&o10=substring&o11=substring&o12=matches&o2=substring&o7=substrin g&o8=substring&o9=substring&product=openSUSE%20Factory&query_format=adv anced&short_desc=slide&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&v10=libreoffice&v 11=libreoffice&v12=%22libreoffice%22&v2=openSUSE%20Factory&v7=libreoffi ce&v8=libreoffice&v9=libreoffice>

Seriously, just write libreoffice to the search field and sort out by change? First bug is yours.

Adam Tauno Williams

15:35

On Tue, 2015-08-25 at 17:21 +0200, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:

...

Seriously, just write libreoffice to the search field and sort out by change? First bug is yours.

That is "LibreOffice 5: black bar instead of sidebar, dialogs often don't get rendered", which is not my issue. My issue was the inability to use the slide-sorter as it is not possible to grab slides, it only selects slides [in multi-select style] regardless of what mouse key or keyboard modifier is 'held down'. -- Adam Tauno Williams mailto:awilliam@whitemice.org GPG D95ED383 Systems Administrator, Python Developer, LPI / NCLA -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

26 Aug 26 Aug

01:10

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-25 16:19, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:

...

Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 09:54:03, Adam Tauno Williams napsal(a):

There are so many posts on this mail list because you people made Tumbleweed a success - it is your fault ;-P

...

...
...
But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports.

No fear or unwillingness, I have filed plenty of bug reports. However bug reports are *slow* and many many people will never know a bug reports exists. As with my recent issues with LO on TW I needed to know if others were experiencing the issue [in this case: yes] so I know if it is 'just me' or a 'real problem'. I need to work around the problem quickly as I am a *user* [as in I use a computer to do stuff I need to do].

And if you would bother to open bugzilla and write libreoffice to the search field you would notice there is a recent bug about your problem. Even containing workaround for your problem. So you could've just looked and got with your solution. Yet you asked here and to this point you got just one me too response and no workaround...

It is not unwillingness. There are several reasons, but one is respect. Yes, we do not want to post silly posts on bugzilla, distracting developers and packagers. Bugzilla is for reporting real bugs, not for support. The custom is to ask people for comments, to find out if it is a real bug, then report on bugzilla. If we posted every problem on bugzilla, then you would complain that there were far too many new entries in bugzilla and too few people attending them. Which is already true: I have seen reports in bugzilla with no answer for months or years.

...

Usually you won't get so fast turnaround on the bugzilla, but effectively you can make it faster if you ask for bugowner of the package and assign him the issue instead of waiting for screening team.

Example on the libreoffice First I figure out who is the bugowner:

scarabeus@bugaboo: ~ $ osc bugowner libreoffice -e Defined in package: LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice bugowner of libreoffice : tchvatal@suse.com

Tada, now I open a bugzilla and write up a new bugreport and assign it to tchvatal@suse.com.

But this requires to install a large bunch of packages (14 this time, including quemu), and get an account. This has been said many times: what you have to do instead is create an interface somewhere (perhaps in bugzilla?) where we can easily get that information without having to install anything. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXdEgsACgkQja8UbcUWM1wmdwD8CVj+Q8PST6HJpIL0MHAMpM3t vu+1NzZK6Zlj81rbLCsA/iVa8lX0pDknPXMlbCWz3BwFSrsJbEYSMFskWe5R3Vat =D+xx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Luiz Fernando Ranghetti

12:03

2015-08-25 22:10 GMT-03:00 Carlos E. R. :

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-08-25 16:19, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:

...
Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 09:54:03, Adam Tauno Williams napsal(a):

There are so many posts on this mail list because you people made Tumbleweed a success - it is your fault ;-P

...
...
...
But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports.

No fear or unwillingness, I have filed plenty of bug reports. However bug reports are *slow* and many many people will never know a bug reports exists. As with my recent issues with LO on TW I needed to know if others were experiencing the issue [in this case: yes] so I know if it is 'just me' or a 'real problem'. I need to work around the problem quickly as I am a *user* [as in I use a computer to do stuff I need to do].

And if you would bother to open bugzilla and write libreoffice to the search field you would notice there is a recent bug about your problem. Even containing workaround for your problem. So you could've just looked and got with your solution. Yet you asked here and to this point you got just one me too response and no workaround...

It is not unwillingness. There are several reasons, but one is respect. Yes, we do not want to post silly posts on bugzilla, distracting developers and packagers. Bugzilla is for reporting real bugs, not for support.

The custom is to ask people for comments, to find out if it is a real bug, then report on bugzilla. If we posted every problem on bugzilla, then you would complain that there were far too many new entries in bugzilla and too few people attending them.

Which is already true: I have seen reports in bugzilla with no answer for months or years.

...
Usually you won't get so fast turnaround on the bugzilla, but effectively you can make it faster if you ask for bugowner of the package and assign him the issue instead of waiting for screening team.

Example on the libreoffice First I figure out who is the bugowner:

scarabeus@bugaboo: ~ $ osc bugowner libreoffice -e Defined in package: LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice bugowner of libreoffice : tchvatal@suse.com

Tada, now I open a bugzilla and write up a new bugreport and assign it to tchvatal@suse.com.

But this requires to install a large bunch of packages (14 this time, including quemu), and get an account.

This has been said many times: what you have to do instead is create an interface somewhere (perhaps in bugzilla?) where we can easily get that information without having to install anything.

Hi, You could go to OBS, project Factory, find the package. https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory/libreoffice In there you'll see in the upper right corner where this package is developed "Developed at LibreOffice:Factory" Click on the link. After that go to "Users" tab and you will se who is set as mantainer: https://build.opensuse.org/package/users/LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice No package install needed, just a browser. Regards, Luiz -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Simon Lees

12:15

On 08/26/2015 09:33 PM, Luiz Fernando Ranghetti wrote:

...

2015-08-25 22:10 GMT-03:00 Carlos E. R. :

...
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

On 2015-08-25 16:19, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:

...
Dne Út 25. srpna 2015 09:54:03, Adam Tauno Williams napsal(a):

There are so many posts on this mail list because you people made Tumbleweed a success - it is your fault ;-P

...
...
...
But we always failed to get people to stop doing it. For some reason there seem to be some fear or unwilligness to fill up bugreports. No fear or unwillingness, I have filed plenty of bug reports. However bug reports are *slow* and many many people will never know a bug reports exists. As with my recent issues with LO on TW I needed to know if others were experiencing the issue [in this case: yes] so I know if it is 'just me' or a 'real problem'. I need to work around the problem quickly as I am a *user* [as in I use a computer to do stuff I need to do].

And if you would bother to open bugzilla and write libreoffice to the search field you would notice there is a recent bug about your problem. Even containing workaround for your problem. So you could've just looked and got with your solution. Yet you asked here and to this point you got just one me too response and no workaround...

It is not unwillingness. There are several reasons, but one is respect. Yes, we do not want to post silly posts on bugzilla, distracting developers and packagers. Bugzilla is for reporting real bugs, not for support.

The custom is to ask people for comments, to find out if it is a real bug, then report on bugzilla. If we posted every problem on bugzilla, then you would complain that there were far too many new entries in bugzilla and too few people attending them.

Which is already true: I have seen reports in bugzilla with no answer for months or years.

...
Usually you won't get so fast turnaround on the bugzilla, but effectively you can make it faster if you ask for bugowner of the package and assign him the issue instead of waiting for screening team.

Example on the libreoffice First I figure out who is the bugowner:

scarabeus@bugaboo: ~ $ osc bugowner libreoffice -e Defined in package: LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice bugowner of libreoffice : tchvatal@suse.com

Tada, now I open a bugzilla and write up a new bugreport and assign it to tchvatal@suse.com. But this requires to install a large bunch of packages (14 this time, including quemu), and get an account.

This has been said many times: what you have to do instead is create an interface somewhere (perhaps in bugzilla?) where we can easily get that information without having to install anything.

Hi,

You could go to OBS, project Factory, find the package.

https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/openSUSE:Factory/libreoffice

In there you'll see in the upper right corner where this package is developed "Developed at LibreOffice:Factory" Click on the link. After that go to "Users" tab and you will se who is set as mantainer:

https://build.opensuse.org/package/users/LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice

No package install needed, just a browser.

Regards,

Luiz Theres even a "report bug" button on https://build.opensuse.org/package/users/LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice which should just work and assign it correctly. Maybe it would be cool if we could make the buttons work at the version of the package in openSUSE:Factory.

Cheers Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

12:24

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-26 14:15, Simon Lees wrote:

...

Theres even a "report bug" button on https://build.opensuse.org/package/users/LibreOffice:Factory/libreoffice

which should just work and assign it correctly. Maybe it would be cool

...

if we could make the buttons work at the version of the package in openSUSE:Factory.

Yes, I have used that feature sometimes. It hasn't worked all times for me, though. Sometimes you need that data after the bug was entered, even after you get some replies. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXdr/0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1ztrwD8CzThqZ6osD5xPHQwIFf3cgbT zOYu9/7EsuQYjQNsDF0BAJpMg5CUIAT3+Hl4eWmaHTYF8IyWhRaBvcvvZd2rDCjc =lOW8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Robert Schweikert

25 Aug 25 Aug

13:43

On 08/25/2015 09:33 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...

Hi All,

This list is quite high traffic which makes it quite hard to follow for someone working as a openSUSE packager in there spare time, this means that on the odd occasion its quite easy to miss things. It strikes me that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly packaging info and discussion relevant to developing openSUSE, the second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE. As factory has become more popular the volume of the second type of traffic has become much larger, as such i'd appreciate it at least if we could split the list in half, so that the bug and issue reports go to a new list, maybe two, one for tumbleweed issues and another for leap development issues. On my laptop where there's decent mail client its easy enough to ignore threads that arn't relevant to development but if I don't have easy access to that its hard to filter on my phone or the web archives.

Anyone else have thoughts?

No more new mailing lists. We have been fighting list sprawl for way too long with little success. As packager one should try to follow issue inquiries over the lists, thus splitting the list results in the same traffic in the inbox, just from more channels. Later, Robert -- Robert Schweikert MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU Public Cloud Architect LINUX rjschwei@suse.com IRC: robjo

Simon Lees

26 Aug 26 Aug

11:33

...

On 08/25/2015 09:33 AM, Simon Lees wrote:

...
Hi All,

This list is quite high traffic which makes it quite hard to follow for someone working as a openSUSE packager in there spare time, this means that on the odd occasion its quite easy to miss things. It strikes me that there is 2 distinct types of traffic to this list, firstly packaging info and discussion relevant to developing openSUSE, the second is issues/bugs raised in development versions of openSUSE. As factory has become more popular the volume of the second type of traffic has become much larger, as such i'd appreciate it at least if we could split the list in half, so that the bug and issue reports go to a new list, maybe two, one for tumbleweed issues and another for leap development issues. On my laptop where there's decent mail client its easy enough to ignore threads that arn't relevant to development but if I don't have easy access to that its hard to filter on my phone or the web archives.

Anyone else have thoughts? No more new mailing lists. We have been fighting list sprawl for way too long with little success.

As packager one should try to follow issue inquiries over the lists, thus splitting the list results in the same traffic in the inbox, just from more channels. In a ideal world that is true, however, between my day job and family if I also followed every list / forums just to filter some possible info

On 08/25/2015 11:13 PM, Robert Schweikert wrote: thats important i'd have no time left to package, I already gave up following the users list for that reason. It should also be noted that currently I mainly package a DE thats not popular enough to fit on the main DVD so the number of issues that pop up is really small, and when they do someone points them to me generally or me to them. I'd like to have time to cover everything but atm unfortunately thats not the reality. Cheers Simon

...

Later, Robert

-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Carlos E. R.

11:36

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2015-08-26 13:33, Simon Lees wrote:

...

In a ideal world that is true, however, between my day job and family if I also followed every list / forums just to filter some possible info thats important i'd have no time left to package, I already gave up following the users list for that reason. It should also be noted that currently I mainly package a DE thats not popular enough to fit on the main DVD so the number of issues that pop up is really small, and when they do someone points them to me generally or me to them. I'd like to have time to cover everything but atm unfortunately thats not the reality.

Some mail clients have capabilities to rise a score value on words in the contents. Maybe you could use things like that to notice emails related to your areas of interest. - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlXdpM8ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xXrQD9FNGthjknv7R0JZ+Rp6pcRprg Hvm31/6McEPwU48lC0kA/Aq9Wfp9Rh9NVWi5kMp8wbkvrz1vntkqKt0FxhFgnlQR =AUdN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

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Adam Tauno Williams
Carlos E. R.
Carlos E. R.
Luiz Fernando Ranghetti
Robert Schweikert
Simon Lees
Tomáš Chvátal

[opensuse-factory] Proposal: Splitting this list in half or maybe thirds.

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