[opensuse-factory] No syslog after clean factory installation
In new install (minimal text only) I got no syslog (and empty /var/log/messages). This is not that bad as we have new and shiny systemd journal. Unfortunately, it is not configured to store entries persistent either which means only messages since current boot are visible. It makes debugging fun ... Is it intentional? -andrey -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
In new install (minimal text only) I got no syslog (and empty /var/log/messages). This is not that bad as we have new and shiny systemd journal. Unfortunately, it is not configured to store entries persistent either which means only messages since current boot are visible. It makes debugging fun ...
Is it intentional?
-andrey If you create the directory /var/log/journal/ then you should get a
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 18:46 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote: persistent journal. I have not tried this myself. syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess Lennart probably(?) expects distros to enable persistent journaling if they're going to drop syslog. See http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/journalctl.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
В Sat, 05 Jan 2013 10:37:13 -0600
Michael Catanzaro
In new install (minimal text only) I got no syslog (and empty /var/log/messages). This is not that bad as we have new and shiny systemd journal. Unfortunately, it is not configured to store entries persistent either which means only messages since current boot are visible. It makes debugging fun ...
Is it intentional?
-andrey If you create the directory /var/log/journal/ then you should get a
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 18:46 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote: persistent journal. I have not tried this myself.
I know. Do you mean that it is intended behavior and every user of 12.3 is going to get non-persistent logging by default?
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess Lennart probably(?) expects distros to enable persistent journaling if they're going to drop syslog.
-- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 20:53 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov wrote:
I know. Do you mean that it is intended behavior and every user of 12.3 is going to get non-persistent logging by default? I don't know - I'll let the systemd guys answer that.
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El 05/01/13 13:53, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
If you create the directory /var/log/journal/ then you should get a persistent journal. I have not tried this myself.
persistent logging is provided by package systemd-logger -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
В Sat, 05 Jan 2013 16:28:43 -0300
Cristian Rodríguez
El 05/01/13 13:53, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
If you create the directory /var/log/journal/ then you should get a persistent journal. I have not tried this myself.
persistent logging is provided by package systemd-logger
Which is not present after installation. So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
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Which is not present after installation.
So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional?
Probably, as they consider the typical target a home user. I think it is a mistake even for a home user. The system should ask whether install systemd-logger, syslogd, or both. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlDpjXUACgkQja8UbcUWM1y7OAD9HBioGyw7bO4I0Ewo4vkkZmDB 0j0od3ww5qrbQ/KTb6kA/jYQtTcdc0Y1byzkug4womlM15SAmnlxDDphvU0dRegb =+Kkh -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
El 06/01/13 03:18, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional?
No, package systemd-logger should get installed automatically in the case of a fresh install. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Cristian Rodríguez
El 06/01/13 03:18, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional?
No, package systemd-logger should get installed automatically in the case of a fresh install.
OK, actually it does nothing beyond creating /var/log/journal. And rsyslog was installed but disabled. Anyway, whatever solution is chosen, it persistent logging needs to be enabled by default. https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=796920 -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Le dimanche 06 janvier 2013 à 20:25 +0400, Andrey Borzenkov a écrit :
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Cristian Rodríguez
wrote: El 06/01/13 03:18, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional?
No, package systemd-logger should get installed automatically in the case of a fresh install.
OK, actually it does nothing beyond creating /var/log/journal. And rsyslog was installed but disabled.
By having /var/log/journal created, it means journal data will be
persistent and journalctl output will be persistent (and no longer
restricted to current boot session).
--
Frederic Crozat
Am Sun, 06 Jan 2013 11:49:39 -0300
schrieb Cristian Rodríguez
El 06/01/13 03:18, Andrey Borzenkov escribió:
So I repeat my question - is every 12.3 user going to have non-persistent logging after installation until (s)he manually adjusts system settings? Is this intentional?
No, package systemd-logger should get installed automatically in the case of a fresh install.
I have somehow the "reverse" effect. I have plain openSUSE 12.2 systems which have >50MB and >70MB of log files in /var/log/journal/*/ I am not aware I ever activated systemd journal, journalctl does not exist on the systems. Log information is also written to /var/log/messages. /var/log/messages is properly rotated, the /var/log/journal/*/ are huge files and seem unrotated. These systems were updated from 12.1 with zypper dup. On a current factory system (updated ever since openSUSE 12.2 MS3 with zypper dup) I see /var/log/messages stopped being written to on December 19, /var/log/journal/*/ contains ~70 files, all together ~355MB. dmesg | grep systemd-journald shows me this: [ 21.571323] systemd-journald[263]: File /var/log/journal/917f30fa2b306de525a84d5b000003c2/system.journal corrupted or uncleanly shut down, renaming and replacing. [ 151.989699] systemd-journald[263]: File /var/log/journal/917f30fa2b306de525a84d5b000003c2/user-1000.journal corrupted or uncleanly shut down, renaming and replacing. journalctl shows me -- Logs begin at Fri, 2012-04-13 18:11:11 CEST, end at Sun, 2012-06-03 22:06:05 CEST. -- but actually the logs go until now. Overall, this seems like "too much" persistent logging. Kind regards, Dieter -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 07/01/13 15:13, dieter escribió:
I am not aware I ever activated systemd journal,
You did not activated, it is mandatory for proper functioning of systemd. journalctl does not
exist on the systems. Log information is also written to /var/log/messages.
This is because your previous install has syslog, existing syslog installations are not modified in anyway.
/var/log/messages is properly rotated, the /var/log/journal/*/ are huge files and seem unrotated. These systems were updated from 12.1 with zypper dup.
The journal does rotate files, according to the configuration options ystemMaxUse=, SystemKeepFree=, SystemMaxFileSize=, RuntimeMaxUse=, RuntimeKeepFree=, RuntimeMaxFileSize= see http://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/journald.conf.html -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2013-01-05 a las 10:37 -0600, Michael Catanzaro escribió:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess
Since when? The agreement as I remember was to keep it. - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 11.4, with Evergreen, x86_64 "Celadon" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlDofGgACgkQja8UbcUWM1wmfAD+JJUZgq2rmVlW4crcJyI/DcAf bNUNsBEDKVGKwdu/AjsA/ArGg6K5CKWYW5OnCChZt6+L9TiINuWfScwEBHOZVUVF =ypnN -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
El 05/01/13 16:18, Carlos E. R. escribió:
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El 2013-01-05 a las 10:37 -0600, Michael Catanzaro escribió:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess
Since when? The agreement as I remember was to keep it.
Syslog has not been dropped, it is not part of the default desktop installation. That is provided by the journal now. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 20:18 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
El 2013-01-05 a las 10:37 -0600, Michael Catanzaro escribió:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess
Since when? The agreement as I remember was to keep it.
Oh dear, I need to learn when to keep my mouth shut. :-) There was a BIG discussion on this several months ago... my recollection of the decision was that it's dropped from the default install and you should manually install it if you want it. But you were involved in that discussion, and I wasn't, and perhaps my memory is faulty. That's really all I have to say. Michael Catanzaro
Am 05.01.2013 20:18, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
El 2013-01-05 a las 10:37 -0600, Michael Catanzaro escribió:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess
Since when? The agreement as I remember was to keep it.
it does not matter since it does not work since > 4 weeks anyway: susi:~ # rcsyslog start redirecting to systemctl start syslog Failed to issue method call: Unit syslog.service failed to load: No such file or directory. See system logs and 'systemctl status syslog.service' for details. susi:~ # systemctl status syslog.service syslog.service Loaded: error (Reason: No such file or directory) Active: inactive (dead) So we should be honest and drop it. -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 06/01/13 12:09, Stefan Seyfried escribió:
susi:~ # systemctl status syslog.service syslog.service Loaded: error (Reason: No such file or directory) Active: inactive (dead)
the syslog unit should be provided with a syslog implementation.. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Am 06.01.2013 16:23, schrieb Cristian Rodríguez:
El 06/01/13 12:09, Stefan Seyfried escribió:
susi:~ # systemctl status syslog.service syslog.service Loaded: error (Reason: No such file or directory) Active: inactive (dead)
the syslog unit should be provided with a syslog implementation..
susi:~ # rpm -qa *syslog* syslog-service-2.0-764.2.noarch syslog-ng-3.3.7-2.2.x86_64 -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Hello, Am Sonntag, 6. Januar 2013 schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
susi:~ # rcsyslog start redirecting to systemctl start syslog Failed to issue method call: Unit syslog.service failed to load: No such file or directory. See system logs and 'systemctl status syslog.service' for details. susi:~ # systemctl status syslog.service syslog.service Loaded: error (Reason: No such file or directory) Active: inactive (dead)
So we should be honest and drop it.
Sounds like https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790805 Symptom: /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/syslog.service is a broken symlink pointing to a non-existant file. Solution: systemctl enable rsylsog.service (or whatever syslog you prefer) Better solution: get a working upgrade path that automatically fixes the symlink Regards, Christian Boltz --
Das geschulte Auge sieht '<IfDefine MAILMAN>', denkt 'grep APACHE_SERVER_FLAGS /etc/sysconfig/apache2' Können Augen denken? Ja, irgendwann schon. Es kann aber etliche Jahre dauern, bis es soweit ist. [> Andre Tann und Peter Poeml in suse-linux]
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Am 06.01.2013 16:43, schrieb Christian Boltz:
Hello,
Am Sonntag, 6. Januar 2013 schrieb Stefan Seyfried:
susi:~ # rcsyslog start redirecting to systemctl start syslog Failed to issue method call: Unit syslog.service failed to load: No such file or directory. See system logs and 'systemctl status syslog.service' for details. susi:~ # systemctl status syslog.service syslog.service Loaded: error (Reason: No such file or directory) Active: inactive (dead)
So we should be honest and drop it.
Sounds like https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=790805
Symptom: /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/syslog.service is a broken symlink pointing to a non-existant file.
Solution: systemctl enable rsylsog.service (or whatever syslog you prefer)
Thanks, that actually helped (with syslog-ng.service in my case).
Better solution: get a working upgrade path that automatically fixes the symlink
Absolutely necessary IMVHO. I mean -- i'm really systemd-friendly, but that everything gets broken all the time by the systemd migration and nobody cares for fixing it up is really annoying and makes me want to stop using it as in real life the benefits of systemd vs. sysvinit are nothing that you'd notice as a normal user. Thanks again, Stefan -- Stefan Seyfried "If your lighter runs out of fluid or flint and stops making fire, and you can't be bothered to figure out about lighter fluid or flint, that is not Zippo's fault." -- bkw -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
В Sun, 06 Jan 2013 16:43:39 +0100
Christian Boltz
Better solution: get a working upgrade path
On clean new installation rsyslog was installed but disabled. So it is more than just working upgrade path. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
El 06/01/13 12:09, Stefan Seyfried escribió:
Am 05.01.2013 20:18, schrieb Carlos E. R.:
El 2013-01-05 a las 10:37 -0600, Michael Catanzaro escribió:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess
Since when? The agreement as I remember was to keep it.
it does not matter since it does not work since > 4 weeks anyway:
susi:~ # rcsyslog start redirecting to systemctl start syslog Failed to issue method call: Unit syslog.service failed to load: No such file or directory. See system logs and 'systemctl status syslog.service' for details.
Check your system.. find -L /etc/systemd -type l will tell you what service units went broken on upgrade. (they are pointing to /lib/ instead of /usr/lib) remove the dangling symlinks and run systemctl reenable on the services you want running again. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess Lennart probably(?) expects distros to enable persistent journaling if they're going to drop syslog.
I guess they are also porting over the existing syslog-ng filters so established system-monitoring tools built on such will continue working? Another reason I backed away from 12.3... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 01/09/2013 08:03 PM, Linda Walsh wrote:
Michael Catanzaro wrote:
syslog was dropped since it's redundant with the journal. But I guess Lennart probably(?) expects distros to enable persistent journaling if they're going to drop syslog.
I guess they are also porting over the existing syslog-ng filters so established system-monitoring tools built on such will continue working?
Syslog-ng works fine together both with systemd and sysvinit. You can check my latest syslog-ng 3.4rc1 packages from https://build.opensuse.org/project/show?project=home%3Aczanik%3Asyslog-ng34 . It should be part of Factory later this week. You can check what's new at http://bazsi.blogs.balabit.com/2012/12/syslog-ng-3-4beta1-released/ (rc1 just adds a couple of bugfixes). Bye, CzP -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
participants (11)
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Andrey Borzenkov
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Carlos E. R.
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Carlos E. R.
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Christian Boltz
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Cristian Rodríguez
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dieter
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Frederic Crozat
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Linda Walsh
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Michael Catanzaro
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Peter Czanik
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Stefan Seyfried