On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Once we have significant enough changes in factory, we do an alpha release. At this point, we'll update /developer.

Let's just leave it broken until then. Cool =/ Put yourself in the shoes of someone (likely already an openSUSE user) who wants to test factory for the first time. Procedure: 1. Goes to opensuse.org 2. Goes to "Get Software" (Really simple, nicely positioned, clear) 3. Gets taken to a "Download openSUSE 11.1" page. The user is now likely to be unable to find a way to change versions from 11.1 to factory (the menu option is pretty hidden and unintuitive ) 4. Finds and clicks "Latest Development Version" 5. Gets taken to a "Download openSUSE 11.1-RC1" A savvy user will identify RC1 as being a release candidate which is in fact older than the current release. If they are undetered they will go likely keep going: 6. Clicks to install "Installation DVD". ERROR: link not found. nice. 7. Tries for "live cd" Bzzzt. Error. Not found If extremely determined the user will likely start searching the wiki / google and end up on the page: http://en.opensuse.org/Development_Version Which is: Cluttered Full of broken links Not clear on what approach to take Offers little on how to update into factory (just the name of a few urls) and no commands needed I always thought this mess was caused by lack of manpower/resources. But we now are able to automatically build images -- there's just really no excuses to why we don't leverage this. And if it's pushing too much data -- do it on less frequent basis. Even done every week, that's very acceptable. If there are some technical issues in the way (are there?) let's work on them, and stop acting like we need to wait month between hand made images.

You can install factory from NET.iso any day though.

I know this, you know this -- but most people don't. And anyway, the live cd (and installation DVDs if we can get them) is really a much nicer solution, we now just need to start using them. Kind Regards, Eric -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:58 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

Well, it's in SVN: https://forgesvn1.novell.com/svn/opensuse/trunk/buildservice/src/software/ap...

How do you take your patches? There's quite a few changes / fixes in there, probably should of been separated. I've made it so it's easy to restore functionality for when the first alpha comes along. There's a couple dead links, but they were dead before (and now pointing to a more logical spot). I've (hackishly) commented out two javascript calls that were causing problems (see code). Also, I need to be pointing to a static URL. Is this possible on your end? (i.e. http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/openSUSE-factory-KDE4-LiveCD-x86_64... http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/openSUSE-factory-GNOME-LiveCD-x86_6... ) to follow the standard naming conventions. Can this redirect to the latest? Or always be the latest or something like that? And if you start building the DVDs, it'll only be a two line change to enable that on the development.html page Regards, Eric.

Stephan, I think we got off the wrong foot. I don't mean to rock the boat -- I'm just new at this. Web development isn't my forte, I've never used ruby nor worked on a project where I don't have direct commit/svn access. But I do want to contribute, and can pick up these things quickly. On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Stephan Kulow wrote:

The change looks too intrusive.

Only at first glance. It's definitely not perfect, and will need further revisions *but* there are no regressions and it makes it more useful than it currently is. And it will take all of 10 seconds to change for an alpha release. But in then again, in my opinion a page saying: "Go to download.opensuse.org/factory/iso" would be better than what we have now (the links are currently broken and the page is confusing)

I would rather see a more general rework where you set a global flag show_factory=true

It'd be nice. But right now it's a static page, so I'm not sure of the motivations and requirements behind that. But on that note, when the alpha / beta / rc does come along -- why should it really be replacing the factory download anyway? I really think we should have /developer.html (or rename it to /factory.html) which will always have (or link to) the latest factory snapshots. And for the pre-releases give it's own pre-release page (which can be removed when got our stable release).

...

Also, I need to be pointing to a static URL. Is this possible on your end?

No idea. Adrian is maintaining the upload.

Greetings, Stephan

So where do we go from here? =) Eric -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

2009/2/3 Stephan Kulow :

...

But on that note, when the alpha / beta / rc does come along -- why should it really be replacing the factory download anyway? I really think we should have /developer.html (or rename it to /factory.html) which will always have (or link to) the latest factory snapshots. Actually, once we release betas it's much more welcome if people test them to avoid us hunting bugs that will go away next day due to failed rebuild or something.

So I would simply add a redirect to the developer.html that can be commented out in a second. The wiki page it redirects to can of course stay - just as the automatically updated ISOs will stay.

So would it be possible to have : Factory - experimental packaging, likely broken may work; recommended test by install specific update packages Beta - packages that should work, here for integration testing. Developer rolls back update, that causes "breakage", until a resolution is found (updating additional packages) It appears from https://features.opensuse.org/305634 that zypper dup is technically ready to be supported, so having a "should work" release target, from the last version, would allow upgrade problems to be caught "early and often", rather than in a frantic rush at end of release cycle. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Am Montag, 2. Februar 2009 15:28:28 schrieb Stephan Binner:

On Tuesday, 27. January 2009 09:57:44 Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

The Factory LiveCDs are no longer in my private acount, but are now published automatically once they built: http://download.opensuse.org/factory/iso/

Maybe put a README into ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/projects/FactoryLiveCDs pointing to new location (and remove the GMC Live-CDs from there)? :-)

Hi Stephan, Excellent idea! Greetings, Stephan (funny Stephan to !Stephan rate :) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org