[opensuse-factory] why doesn't opensuse include dkms?
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms. I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro? -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2016-12-07 at 05:27 -0800, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
SUSE has the concept of kernel module packages which is vastly superior
to DKMS.
Martin
--
Dr. Martin Wilck
On Wed, Dec 7, 2016 at 4:34 PM, Martin Wilck
On Wed, 2016-12-07 at 05:27 -0800, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
SUSE has the concept of kernel module packages which is vastly superior to DKMS.
As long as someone packages them and keeps them up to date. Quite often KMPs appear after kernel with (sometimes, significant) delay, and there is well known third party software for which no Tumbleweed packages exist in the first place. KMPs target stable distribution that guarantees kABI compatibility during its lifetime. They are much less suited for rolling distribution like Tumbleweed. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Martin Wilck wrote:
SUSE has the concept of kernel module packages which is vastly superior to DKMS.
And how does one use those with a vanilla kernel downloaded from kernel.org? For that manner, does suse provide such packages for all 3rd party SW? That seems rather unlikely. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On 12/07/2016 07:27 AM, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
If openSUSE (note spelling) were to include DKMS capability, every user of out-of-tree modules would need the complete kernel development package. In fact, we would likely need to install those packages for every user, "just in case". Perhaps in an era when large disks are standard, that would not be serious. On the other hand, I prefer to keep the openSUSE installation as lean as possible. It already takes enough time to install. If you are not using the standard kernel packages, then you can always install the RPM from Oracle. That has DKMS capability. Of course, the initial installation of that RPM will force you to install all of its prerequisites. I'm sure you have the capability to solve all the API changes that happen with new kernels, and the skill to apply the necessary patches. BTW, it took me the better part of 3 days last week to fix the incompatibilities that arose when the X server version was changed from 1.18.x to 1.19.0. To complicate matters, the build has to work with 1.18.3, 1.18.4, and 1.19.0. Larry -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On mercredi, 7 décembre 2016 11.04:17 h CET Larry Finger wrote:
On 12/07/2016 07:27 AM, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
If openSUSE (note spelling) were to include DKMS capability, every user of out-of-tree modules would need the complete kernel development package. In fact, we would likely need to install those packages for every user, "just in case". Perhaps in an era when large disks are standard, that would not be serious. On the other hand, I prefer to keep the openSUSE installation as lean as possible. It already takes enough time to install.
If you are not using the standard kernel packages, then you can always install the RPM from Oracle. That has DKMS capability. Of course, the initial installation of that RPM will force you to install all of its prerequisites. I'm sure you have the capability to solve all the API changes that happen with new kernels, and the skill to apply the necessary patches. BTW, it took me the better part of 3 days last week to fix the incompatibilities that arose when the X server version was changed from 1.18.x to 1.19.0. To complicate matters, the build has to work with 1.18.3, 1.18.4, and 1.19.0.
Larry
And Larry, you forget the always changing kernel :-) Beside that, a big big thanks for your effort and envolment to keep up to date and functional Virtualbox. -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe fellowship GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wednesday 2016-12-07 18:04, Larry Finger wrote:
If openSUSE (note spelling) were to include DKMS capability, every user of out-of-tree modules would need the complete kernel development package.
Not a big difficulty, just edit dkms.spec to require kernel-syms. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
07.12.2016 20:04, Larry Finger пишет:
If openSUSE (note spelling) were to include DKMS capability, every user of out-of-tree modules would need the complete kernel development package.
So where is the problem? This is already the case with nVidia packages that build KMP on end user system (they do not ship binary modules).
If you are not using the standard kernel packages, then you can always install the RPM from Oracle. That has DKMS capability.
Exactly. But there is no (in repo) DKMS to actually make use of this capability.
I'm sure you have the capability to solve all the API changes that happen with new kernels, and the skill to apply the necessary patches.
Do you imply that new kernel version in Tumbleweed will not be published until all out of tree modules are fixed to build against it?
BTW, it took me the better part of 3 days last week to fix the incompatibilities that arose when the X server version was changed from 1.18.x to 1.19.0. To complicate matters, the build has to work with 1.18.3, 1.18.4, and 1.19.0.
I appreciate your efforts but it is not related to DKMS. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
Larry Finger wrote:
On 12/07/2016 07:27 AM, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
If openSUSE (note spelling)
I did, but spelling != capitalization.
were to include DKMS capability, every user of out-of-tree modules would need the complete kernel development package. In fact, we would likely need to install those packages for every user, "just in case". Perhaps in an era when large disks are standard, that would not be serious. On the other hand, I prefer to keep the openSUSE installation as lean as possible. It already takes enough time to install.
Why would you install anything, "for everybody"? Is everybody asking for it?
If you are not using the standard kernel packages, then you can always install the RPM from Oracle. That has DKMS capability.
--- Oh? That's not what their webpage says: Note: Users of Fedora/Mandriva might want to install the dkms package (not available on openSUSE) to ensure that the VirtualBox host kernel modules (vboxdrv, vboxnetflt and vboxnetadp) are properly updated if the linux kernel version changes during the next kernel update. The webpage states the dkms packages are provided by by various distros except for opensuse. They don't say how one can keep host kernel modules up to date with each kernel version. When DKMS works, it recompiles an out-of-tree module for a newer kernel. If things have changed too much in the kernel, it won't work, but module call interfaces don't change with every kernel version.
Of course, the initial installation of that RPM will force you to install all of its prerequisites.
Installation of what RPM? DKMS? Wouldn't that only need to be done once?
I'm sure you have the capability to solve all the API changes that happen with new kernels, and the skill to apply the necessary patches.
If things change too much, vendors usually release a newer version. Their turn-around time is usually alot less than it takes for osuse to come out with a new distro. Opensuse isn't real good about updating older, still supported releases to be compatible with the latest "whatevers". Recently I asked about updates for rootCA's as the last one was updated over a year ago. Never did get an answer for that. When it comes to the kernel, expecing osuse to come out with a new vanilla kernel for my HW every kernel release is not something I would expect. I.e. the current system, already doesn't work for me. I boot from disk w/separate /usr and root. And I should wait for a kernel for 13.2 for such a config? Doesn't explain why opensuse has to be the only exception for rpm-distros. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org
On Wed, 2016-12-07 at 05:27 -0800, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
Ths shortest possible answer: openSUSE contains the packages that contributors felt valuable to provide. Anybody that has the feeling that something is missing can become a contributor - by simply packaging up what he/she is missing and follwing the process of submitting it to openSUSE:Factory (and subsequent to the next Leap version). If nobody feels compelled to do the work, it won't happen. It's pretty simple. Looking forward to receive your first package submission soon, Dominique
08.12.2016 02:08, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar пишет:
On Wed, 2016-12-07 at 05:27 -0800, L. A. Walsh wrote:
In looking at the latest version of Vbox, they mention that all of the rpm based distros can use dkms to keep their Vbox in sync with whatever kernel is installed -- *except*, opensuse, which doesn't have dkms.
I was wondering why opensuse stands out as not including this handy package for auto-rebuilding out-of-tree kernel modules as part of the distro?
Ths shortest possible answer: openSUSE contains the packages that contributors felt valuable to provide.
Anybody that has the feeling that something is missing can become a contributor - by simply packaging up what he/she is missing and follwing the process of submitting it to openSUSE:Factory (and subsequent to the next Leap version).
It appears that https://build.opensuse.org/package/show/home:Bumblebee-Project:Bumblebee/dkm... has package for openSUSE. Linda, may be you could discuss it with maintainers whether they are interested in submitting it.
If nobody feels compelled to do the work, it won't happen. It's pretty simple.
Looking forward to receive your first package submission soon, Dominique
participants (9)
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Andrei Borzenkov -
Bruno Friedmann -
Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar -
Jan Engelhardt -
L A Walsh -
L. A. Walsh
-
L.A. Walsh
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Larry Finger -
Martin Wilck