[opensuse-factory] High number of serious bugs in GNOME

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[opensuse-factory] [status report]...

Alberto Passalacqua

2 Sep 2007 2 Sep '07

15:52

Hello everyone, during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs. As it can be seen here: https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= GNOME + Evolution has 26 of them. Plus, from bugzilla it appears that GNOME + GNOME Admin/Platform + Evolution have 201 bugs: https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&bug_severity=Major&bug_severity=Normal&bug_severity=Minor&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= Considering the short time before the final release (~1 month), I think it would be helpful to know the actual situation of the fixes, and if there's enough time to solve all these issues before the release date. With kind regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Bernhard Walle

2 Sep 2 Sep

19:25

* Alberto Passalacqua [2007-09-02 17:52]:

...

during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs.

GNOME will be updated before release. Thanks, Bernhard --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Francis Giannaros

21:02

On 9/2/07, Bernhard Walle wrote:

...

* Alberto Passalacqua [2007-09-02 17:52]:

...
during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs.

GNOME will be updated before release.

Perhaps you could clarify what this means? Is it hoped that the updates and final release will solve all the 200+ bugs? The only reason I ask about this is because I notice around the place the general sense from some users of neglect for GNOME in openSUSE, which I know is certainly as a statement unfair; but I can see why some of them might question things when you take a look at comparative figures like this (GNOME 200+ with a lot of blockers, KDE just 64, and dealing with a web browser). It would be a real shame to have GNOME slip behind as it did in 10.2 which I think everyone will agree was not ideal. Kind thoughts, -- Francis Giannaros http://francis.giannaros.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Richard Guenther

3 Sep 3 Sep

08:52

On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Francis Giannaros wrote:

...

On 9/2/07, Bernhard Walle wrote:

...
* Alberto Passalacqua [2007-09-02 17:52]:

...
during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs.

GNOME will be updated before release.

Perhaps you could clarify what this means? Is it hoped that the updates and final release will solve all the 200+ bugs? The only reason I ask about this is because I notice around the place the general sense from some users of neglect for GNOME in openSUSE, which I know is certainly as a statement unfair; but I can see why some of them might question things when you take a look at comparative figures like this (GNOME 200+ with a lot of blockers, KDE just 64, and dealing with a web browser).

It would be a real shame to have GNOME slip behind as it did in 10.2 which I think everyone will agree was not ideal.

I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream. Richard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Alberto Passalacqua

09:47

...

I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream.

That's ok, but it should have been clarified at the beginning of the development stage, I think. Now, 17 days before the release, it is probably too late to get them fixed for 2.20, which will be included in openSUSE 10.3. Moreover, on what basis should we distinguish between GNOME bugs to report upstream, and GNOME bugs to report on bugzilla? With kind regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Florin Samareanu

09:56

On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 11:47 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

That's ok, but it should have been clarified at the beginning of the development stage, I think. Now, 17 days before the release, it is probably too late to get them fixed for 2.20, which will be included in openSUSE 10.3.

Moreover, on what basis should we distinguish between GNOME bugs to report upstream, and GNOME bugs to report on bugzilla?

Since the number of bugs i see in opensuse 10.3 is quite high (and i am affected by at least 5 different _annoying_ bugs: g-p-m not showing suspend/hibernate for laptops, /dev/null permissions after hibernate, btdownloader not working, iwl3945 breaking suspend ... etc) i personally would like to see the release postponed rather then releasing something that you know won`t work almost perfectly (like 10.2 did).

...

With kind regards, Alberto

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Richard Guenther

10:06

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

...
I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream.

That's ok, but it should have been clarified at the beginning of the development stage, I think. Now, 17 days before the release, it is probably too late to get them fixed for 2.20, which will be included in openSUSE 10.3.

Moreover, on what basis should we distinguish between GNOME bugs to report upstream, and GNOME bugs to report on bugzilla?

Usually for GCC (which is what I'm working on) I monitor the upstream bugzilla for bugs affecting the openSUSE compiler as well as making sure that bugs filed on the Novell bugzilla are forwarded upstream. This is ideally the way it should work for all bugs filed in Novell bugzilla if there is upstream development and bugreporting infrastructure. To what extent this happens for GNOME bugs at the moment I don't know, but I am sure that help from the community to improve the situation with Novell-bugzilla-only bugreports would be appreciated. Maybe our GNOME people can clarify their policy? Thanks, Richard. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Boyd Lynn Gerber

12:58

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

On Mon, 3 Sep 2007, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...
...
I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream.

That's ok, but it should have been clarified at the beginning of the development stage, I think. Now, 17 days before the release, it is probably too late to get them fixed for 2.20, which will be included in openSUSE 10.3.

Moreover, on what basis should we distinguish between GNOME bugs to report upstream, and GNOME bugs to report on bugzilla?

Usually for GCC (which is what I'm working on) I monitor the upstream bugzilla for bugs affecting the openSUSE compiler as well as making sure that bugs filed on the Novell bugzilla are forwarded upstream.

This is ideally the way it should work for all bugs filed in Novell bugzilla if there is upstream development and bugreporting infrastructure.

To what extent this happens for GNOME bugs at the moment I don't know, but I am sure that help from the community to improve the situation with Novell-bugzilla-only bugreports would be appreciated. Maybe our GNOME people can clarify their policy?

This looks like an other 10.1 fiasco. I really do not want to see a repeat of the mistakes. From what I see in bugzilla there are too many bugs to really release on schedule. I think the release needs to be postponded. -- Boyd Gerber ZENEZ 1042 East Fort Union #135, Midvale Utah 84047 --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Henne Vogelsang

13:03

Hi, On Monday, September 03, 2007 at 06:58:14, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

...

From what I see in bugzilla there are too many bugs to really release on schedule. I think the release needs to be postponded.

If we would always draw in our horns because of this we would still be in the process of releasing 4.2. Guys we still have 17 days until RC1. Relax... Henne -- Henne Vogelsang, openSUSE. Everybody has a plan, until they get hit. - Mike Tyson --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Robert Kaiser

13:36

Henne Vogelsang wrote:

...

On Monday, September 03, 2007 at 06:58:14, Boyd Lynn Gerber wrote:

...
From what I see in bugzilla there are too many bugs to really release on schedule. I think the release needs to be postponded.

If we would always draw in our horns because of this we would still be in the process of releasing 4.2.

Guys we still have 17 days until RC1. Relax...

Right. And after all, this is only GNOME and everybody reasonable uses KDE anyways (because it has much less bugs, for example) :P To be serious, I'm working myself in project management of a software project (which is even shipped with openSUSE), and there will probably always be an impressive list of bugs left in any release. As long as those are things one can live with, it's probably even OK. From what I read here, the reporting of bugs to the upstream GNOME bug database does not work as well as it could, so the first step for anyone who complains here should be to verify all problems he sees _are_ reported upstream. That is usually the first step for getting them fixed also in the final release (or a bugfix release afterwards) and therefore also in the version shipped in the distro. Reporting bugs back to the upstream project is a vital step, and we in the projects making the software itself sometimes get bitten by that not being done - so please everyone who actually sees such problems, go out and try forwarding the bugs upstream and comment the upstream bug ID in the openSUSE bug, that helps more than complaining here. Robert Kaiser SeaMonkey developer --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Alberto Passalacqua

18:03

...

Right. And after all, this is only GNOME and everybody reasonable uses KDE anyways (because it has much less bugs, for example) :P

I don't agree. We had already a buggy GNOME, to the limit of being unusable, on 10.2. I would like not to see that again in 10.3.

...

To be serious, I'm working myself in project management of a software project (which is even shipped with openSUSE), and there will probably always be an impressive list of bugs left in any release. As long as those are things one can live with, it's probably even OK.

I wrote about critical and blockers.

...

Reporting bugs back to the upstream project is a vital step, and we in the projects making the software itself sometimes get bitten by that not being done - so please everyone who actually sees such problems, go out and try forwarding the bugs upstream and comment the upstream bug ID in the openSUSE bug, that helps more than complaining here.

Reporting on Novell bugzilla is what is required by openSUSE developers. Noone never talked of reporting bugs upstream too. If that's the desired behaviour, it should be clarified. Moreover, it think it would be easier if this task is done directly by the developer to whom the bug in Novell bugzilla is assigned. He would be automatically subscribed to the bug report made upstream, and he is surely able to provide more complete information. Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Alberto Passalacqua

17:57

...

This looks like an other 10.1 fiasco.

I don't think so. As Henne said, we are still in beta stage. That's why I asked how fixes are progressing. Regards, Alberto --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Gary Ekker

4 Sep 4 Sep

17:33

On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 11:47 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

...
I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream.

That's ok, but it should have been clarified at the beginning of the development stage, I think. Now, 17 days before the release, it is probably too late to get them fixed for 2.20, which will be included in openSUSE 10.3.

Moreover, on what basis should we distinguish between GNOME bugs to report upstream, and GNOME bugs to report on bugzilla?

The best thing to do is to report it here so that we are aware of the bug. -Gary --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Gary Ekker

17:30

On Mon, 2007-09-03 at 10:52 +0200, Richard Guenther wrote:

...

On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Francis Giannaros wrote:

...
On 9/2/07, Bernhard Walle wrote:

...
* Alberto Passalacqua [2007-09-02 17:52]:

...
during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs.

GNOME will be updated before release.

Perhaps you could clarify what this means? Is it hoped that the updates and final release will solve all the 200+ bugs? The only reason I ask about this is because I notice around the place the general sense from some users of neglect for GNOME in openSUSE, which I know is certainly as a statement unfair; but I can see why some of them might question things when you take a look at comparative figures like this (GNOME 200+ with a lot of blockers, KDE just 64, and dealing with a web browser).

It would be a real shame to have GNOME slip behind as it did in 10.2 which I think everyone will agree was not ideal.

I suppose for the quality of GNOME it would be more helpful if people would report issues upstream. At least if the perception is correct that bugs in openSUSE GNOME are only fixed by pulling new releases from upstream.

That perception is not accurate. Although we are tracking some of these bugs upstream and taking the fixes from the upstream release as they become available. -Gary --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Gary Ekker

17:29

On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 22:02 +0100, Francis Giannaros wrote:

...

On 9/2/07, Bernhard Walle wrote:

...
* Alberto Passalacqua [2007-09-02 17:52]:

...
during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs.

GNOME will be updated before release.

Perhaps you could clarify what this means? Is it hoped that the updates and final release will solve all the 200+ bugs? The only reason I ask about this is because I notice around the place the general sense from some users of neglect for GNOME in openSUSE, which I know is certainly as a statement unfair; but I can see why some of them might question things when you take a look at comparative figures like this (GNOME 200+ with a lot of blockers, KDE just 64, and dealing with a web browser).

There are only 12 GNOME bugs of severity critical and blocker. I'm confident that we can resolve those before the release of 10.3.

...

It would be a real shame to have GNOME slip behind as it did in 10.2 which I think everyone will agree was not ideal.

None of us want that and we are working hard to ensure that it doesn't happen with 10.3. -Gary --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

3 Sep 3 Sep

14:43

On Sunday 02 September 2007 10:52:54 am Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

Hello everyone, during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs. As it can be seen here:

The numbers seems to be lower today. https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

...

GNOME + Evolution has 26 of them.

Now 23

...

Plus, from bugzilla it appears that GNOME + GNOME Admin/Platform + Evolution have 201 bugs:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&bug_severity=Major&bug_severity=Normal&bug_severity=Minor&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0= Now 189

...

Considering the short time before the final release (~1 month), I think it would be helpful to know the actual situation of the fixes, and if there's enough time to solve all these issues before the release date.

I looked further: https://bugzilla.novell.com/buglist.cgi?action=wrap&bug_file_loc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_id=&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bugidtype=include&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&classification=openSUSE&email1=&email2=&emailassigned_to1=1&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailtype1=substring&emailtype2=substring&field0-0-0=noop&keywords=&keywords_type=anywords&long_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&product=openSUSE%2010.3&short_desc=&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=&votes=&=&component=GNOME And for instance: 301716 Cri P5 open NEW Pidgin segfaults when sending AIM message to yourself. Taking the type of application is it really critical? Is that mean that critical is used for any crash? -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Alberto Passalacqua

18:06

...

And for instance: 301716 Cri P5 open NEW Pidgin segfaults when sending AIM message to yourself.

Taking the type of application is it really critical? Is that mean that critical is used for any crash?

Funny, indeed. The reporter is Bryan Perry @ Novell, so it is probably considered important. Regards, A. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Rajko M.

19:47

On Monday 03 September 2007 13:06, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

...
And for instance: 301716 Cri P5 open NEW Pidgin segfaults when sending AIM message to yourself.

Taking the type of application is it really critical? Is that mean that critical is used for any crash?

Funny, indeed.

The reporter is Bryan Perry @ Novell, so it is probably considered important.

It might be the company policy to set critical if application crashes, I have seen such comment in one of bugs that you can find on the list. If you look the list than you can see few similar reports. Later I'm going to see more, but if there are many of the above kind GNOME is safe :-) -- Regards, Rajko. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Andreas Jaeger

4 Sep 4 Sep

09:16

"Rajko M." writes:

...

On Monday 03 September 2007 13:06, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...
...
And for instance: 301716 Cri P5 open NEW Pidgin segfaults when sending AIM message to yourself.

Taking the type of application is it really critical? Is that mean that critical is used for any crash?

Funny, indeed.

The reporter is Bryan Perry @ Novell, so it is probably considered important.

It might be the company policy to set critical if application crashes, I have seen such comment in one of bugs that you can find on the list. If you look the list than you can see few similar reports. Later I'm going to see more, but if there are many of the above kind GNOME is safe :-)

I'm not aware of something - let's downgrade this bug, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform / openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

Gary Ekker

17:26

On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 17:52 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

Hello everyone, during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs. As it can be seen here:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

GNOME + Evolution has 26 of them. Plus, from bugzilla it appears that GNOME + GNOME Admin/Platform + Evolution have 201 bugs:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&bug_severity=Major&bug_severity=Normal&bug_severity=Minor&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

Considering the short time before the final release (~1 month), I think it would be helpful to know the actual situation of the fixes, and if there's enough time to solve all these issues before the release date.

Yes we still have time to resolve the critical and blocker bugs, as well as many of the majors. -Gary --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

JP Rosevear

17:59

On Sun, 2007-09-02 at 17:52 +0200, Alberto Passalacqua wrote:

...

Hello everyone, during a discussion on IRC it emerged that GNOME still has a very high number of blockers and critical bugs. As it can be seen here:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

GNOME + Evolution has 26 of them. Plus, from bugzilla it appears that GNOME + GNOME Admin/Platform + Evolution have 201 bugs:

https://bugzilla.novell.com/report.cgi?x_axis_field=&y_axis_field=component&z_axis_field=&query_format=report-table&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=fulltext&long_desc=&classification=openSUSE&product=openSUSE+10.3&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=anywords&keywords=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_severity=Blocker&bug_severity=Critical&bug_severity=Major&bug_severity=Normal&bug_severity=Minor&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&format=table&action=wrap&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=

Considering the short time before the final release (~1 month), I think it would be helpful to know the actual situation of the fixes, and if there's enough time to solve all these issues before the release date.

I'll answer the original mail, but I'll collect thoughts related to other replies here too. For the GNOME bugs in particular at least there are several issues causing the count to be high and not well maintained: 1) We (as the GNOME maintainers) have not been good at redirecting bugs upstream. We do have the keyword "should_go_upstream" in use which indicates what we want to upstream it and resolve it in the opensuse bugzilla, but we've been slow to do this though and its something we've not publicized and that was probably wrong. 2) We have not been good at grading bug severity, generally severity has been left at whatever the filer put it, although Blocker/Critical/Major have undergone more scrutiny in 10.3 at least. Further complicating this is that we (as a project) do not define severity well for instance from what I could find: http://en.opensuse.org/Bug_Reporting_FAQ http://en.opensuse.org/Submitting_Bug_Reports Only one mentions severity but its a brief reference to blocker. The ones on the Novell bugzilla are also weak: https://bugzilla.novell.com/page.cgi?id=fields.html#bug_severity 3) We (as the GNOME maintainers who work for Novell) have traditionally not focused on openSUSE much, rather spending most of our time on SLED. This improved for 10.3 and well continue to improve, but we lagged a little more than we thought due to SP1 of SLED 10. 4) As some one else mentioned, you almost never close out all the bugs for release Now, not one to simply list problems with out a solution, here on some positives: 1) I've been monitoring the count, its been trending down over the last three weeks (including major and above) 2) There are a number of easy packaging related things (bnc-team-gnome-build) we can pick off before 10.3 3) Mark Gordon a Novell QA person has been able to spend a lot more time triaging and moving bugs upstream over the last several weeks 4) Of the criticals, only 3 have not been active (generally activity means they are getting attention on the way to a fix) in the last week and they are: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=299331 https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=299005 Both being worked on by hpj as part of a larger set of help fixes (rarian integration), its just a big mess atm because we have to tie this help system into the suse help system which is based on how kde discovers help files and our older patches broke big time. We should look at the for 10.4 Thats good and all , but it doesn't go all the way of course - Gary Ekker has been getting some better bug criteria created for understanding when we should upstream, wontfix, invalid, etc. Its for both SLED and openSUSE, we did a test run last week and it worked reasonably well. I think Gary would like to publish these soon for GNOME at least, just a bit of hesitation to push them out at this point in the release cycle. Maybe AJ/Coolo/Christoph could take a quick look first and they can form a basis for discussion across the project (although maybe upstreaming differs between kernel and GNOME). Finally, there has been a move to standardize severity definitions internally at Novell, we should probably see about publicizing those or consciously have different (more standard open source definitions) for those. I have some definition thats Gary, Thorsten K, Mihnea and I did a few months a go that could be a good start once they are un-SLEDified if anyone is interested. (I suppose these last two things should migrate to an opensuse-project thread.) -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Druid

18:37

...

3) We (as the GNOME maintainers who work for Novell) have traditionally not focused on openSUSE much, rather spending most of our time on SLED. This improved for 10.3 and well continue to improve, but we lagged a little more than we thought due to SP1 of SLED 10.

Seems one of those very traditional traditions that goes through centuries and more centuries, and generations and more generations. As far as I know, KDE is included in SLED too. How come KDE doesnt have those problems of too much focus in SLED? What can we expect of that? That the gnome in opensuse is barely maintained? Or does that mean that the KDE guys doesnt put much effort in SLED? thanks Marcio Ferreira --- Druid

...

4) As some one else mentioned, you almost never close out all the bugs for release

Andreas Jaeger

19:07

Druid writes:

...

...
3) We (as the GNOME maintainers who work for Novell) have traditionally not focused on openSUSE much, rather spending most of our time on SLED. This improved for 10.3 and well continue to improve, but we lagged a little more than we thought due to SP1 of SLED 10.

Seems one of those very traditional traditions that goes through centuries and more centuries, and generations and more generations.

As far as I know, KDE is included in SLED too. How come KDE doesnt have those problems of too much focus in SLED? What can we expect of that? That the gnome in opensuse is barely maintained? Or does that mean that the KDE guys doesnt put much effort in SLED?

It's not as easy as you're thinking. The KDE guys had some advantage with no major release for quite some time. Stabilizing KDE 3.5.x is much less work than stabilizing a major release like KDE 4 - or GNOME 2.20. So, there have been quite synergies between openSUSE and SLED on the KDE side - something we could not benefit from with GNOME. And that means we have to do more work with GNOME and then you might focus... I'm glad that the GNOME maintainers have already improve much working on openSUSE, Andreas -- Andreas Jaeger, Director Platform/openSUSE, aj@suse.de SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F FED1 389A 563C C272 A126

JP Rosevear

19:40

On Tue, 2007-09-04 at 15:37 -0300, Druid wrote:

...

...
3) We (as the GNOME maintainers who work for Novell) have traditionally not focused on openSUSE much, rather spending most of our time on SLED. This improved for 10.3 and well continue to improve, but we lagged a little more than we thought due to SP1 of SLED 10.

Seems one of those very traditional traditions that goes through centuries and more centuries, and generations and more generations.

As far as I know, KDE is included in SLED too. How come KDE doesnt have those problems of too much focus in SLED? What can we expect of that? That the gnome in opensuse is barely maintained? Or does that mean that the KDE guys doesnt put much effort in SLED?

I think its fair to say that in the past its been paid less attention than the GNOME in SLED, although I would rate it as higher than "barely maintained". But things like features, polish, maintenance updates, etc have been targeted at SLED not openSUSE for development cycles. All I can say is: if you're a KDE user on openSUSE doesn't affect you much :-). If you're a GNOME use drop by our list or irc channel and help keep us on track just like Alberto did by sending the original mail :-). -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dirk Mueller

5 Sep 5 Sep

12:28

On Tuesday, 4. September 2007, JP Rosevear wrote:

...

If you're a GNOME use drop by our list or irc channel and help keep us on track just like Alberto did by sending the original mail :-).

I think the same applies to KDE as well as to any other component in openSUSE. Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Dirk Mueller

12:27

On Tuesday, 4. September 2007, Druid wrote:

...

As far as I know, KDE is included in SLED too.

Thats correct :)

...

Or does that mean that the KDE guys doesnt put much effort in SLED?

We have put a lot of effort into SLED. For example, we have written a beagle frontend and knetworkmanager for it. Greetings, Dirk --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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participants (14)

Alberto Passalacqua
Andreas Jaeger
Bernhard Walle
Boyd Lynn Gerber
Dirk Mueller
Druid
Florin Samareanu
Francis Giannaros
Gary Ekker
Henne Vogelsang
JP Rosevear
Rajko M.
Richard Guenther
Robert Kaiser