On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 13:13 +0200, Per Jessen wrote:

Josef Reidinger wrote:

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On Wed, 31 Aug 2016 11:10:52 +0200 Per Jessen wrote:

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I installed a xen guest this morning, server text-only pattern, all looks good.  I was surprised by the new yast pattern selection, and also deselected a few font-related packages that I had no need for, but otherwise okay.

Hi, regarding new yast pattern selection you mean roles selection or something different? I am not aware of other changes we did there.

Hi Josef

On the "Desktop Selection" panel, I see

    (x) KDE Plasma Desktop     ( ) GNOME Desktop     ( ) Server (Text Mode)     ( ) Other

The "Server" option used to be under "Other" and was called "Minimum text-only mode". (or something like that).  That's how it was in 422 alpha3.

Actually it was even more confusing than that, see boo#962725 ( https:/ /bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962725 ) We had two settings:   * Server (Text Mode)   * Other / Minimal Server selection (Text mode) Depending on the media, only one might have been shown or both. And it was totally unclear what the distinction was. Hence, this was cleanup up Cheers, Dominique

On 2016-09-01 13:38, Per Jessen wrote:

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

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Hi Josef

On the "Desktop Selection" panel, I see

(x) KDE Plasma Desktop ( ) GNOME Desktop ( ) Server (Text Mode) ( ) Other

The "Server" option used to be under "Other" and was called "Minimum text-only mode". (or something like that). That's how it was in 422 alpha3.

Actually it was even more confusing than that, see boo#962725 ( https:/ /bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962725 )

We had two settings: * Server (Text Mode) * Other / Minimal Server selection (Text mode)

Amazing, I don't recall ever seeing that "Server (Text Mode)" option.

Yes, I saw it. Build0158.

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Depending on the media, only one might have been shown or both.

Ah, I always install from network.

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And it was totally unclear what the distinction was. Hence, this was cleanup up

What I have unclear now is if the "Server (Text Mode)" is minimal or not. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2016-09-01 13:38, Per Jessen wrote:

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Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

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Hi Josef

On the "Desktop Selection" panel, I see

(x) KDE Plasma Desktop ( ) GNOME Desktop ( ) Server (Text Mode) ( ) Other

The "Server" option used to be under "Other" and was called "Minimum text-only mode". (or something like that). That's how it was in 422 alpha3.

Actually it was even more confusing than that, see boo#962725 ( https:/ /bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=962725 )

We had two settings: * Server (Text Mode) * Other / Minimal Server selection (Text mode)

Amazing, I don't recall ever seeing that "Server (Text Mode)" option.

Yes, I saw it. Build0158.

I meant "ever seeing it before". As in Alpha3 for instance.

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Depending on the media, only one might have been shown or both.

Ah, I always install from network.

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And it was totally unclear what the distinction was. Hence, this was cleanup up

What I have unclear now is if the "Server (Text Mode)" is minimal or not.

It is the same pattern. Apart from a lot of font-stuff, it is a very usable minimalist selection. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (24.0°C) http://www.dns24.ch/ - your free DNS host, made in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 15:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

 

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It is the same pattern.  Apart from a lot of font-stuff, it is a very usable minimalist selection. 

Yes, I see. Way too minimal for my liking.

How much needs to go into minimal? I bet we can find users that claim the current pattern is still too large. Cheers, Dominique

On 2016-09-01 15:54, Per Jessen wrote:

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

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On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 15:31 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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It is the same pattern. Apart from a lot of font-stuff, it is a very usable minimalist selection.

Yes, I see. Way too minimal for my liking.

How much needs to go into minimal? I bet we can find users that claim the current pattern is still too large.

Yep. That's why calling it a "server" pattern is a good thing.

Well, then the name should still have "minimal" on it. Something like "Text Server (minimal) pattern". For a text only machine I would install almost everything, except X and X apps. YaST would be installed, Alpine, text web browsers, text mode tools, mc, all man pages, gpm, etc. Once I installed that pattern and had to reinstall with something else, it was unusable. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-05 10:47, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 20:09 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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How much needs to go into minimal? I bet we can find users that claim the current pattern is still too large.

Yep. That's why calling it a "server" pattern is a good thing.

Well, then the name should still have "minimal" on it. Something like "Text Server (minimal) pattern".

Why? The current pattern gives you a functional setup which you are likely to use on a server; thanks to sshd being there you can even use it on a remote box and 'keep on configuring what you need'. Adding 'minimal' to the name only opens the door for flames that it's 'too big' and 'this and that should not be in'

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For a text only machine I would install almost everything, except X and X apps. YaST would be installed, Alpine, text web browsers, text mode tools, mc, all man pages, gpm, etc.

YOU would - I would not... the patterns neither cater for you or me,

Sorry, confusion here. In that paragraph I'm not referring to the existing server or minimal text pattern. I'm referring to a non-existing full text pattern. And no, I'm not suggesting to create it. I'm only trying to explain what I understand by "text pattern", and why the existing pattern is, IMHO, "minimal". -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Отправлено с iPhone

5 сент. 2016 г., в 17:30, Per Jessen написал(а):

Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

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On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 20:09 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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How much needs to go into minimal? I bet we can find users that claim the current pattern is still too large.

Yep. That's why calling it a "server" pattern is a good thing.

Well, then the name should still have "minimal" on it. Something like "Text Server (minimal) pattern".

Why? The current pattern gives you a functional setup which you are likely to use on a server; thanks to sshd being there you can even use it on a remote box and 'keep on configuring what you need'. Adding 'minimal' to the name only opens the door for flames that it's 'too big' and 'this and that should not be in'

I agree, that pattern is in a very good shape right now. I think the only significant changes I make when I use it is to add syslog-ng and man-pages.

Yes, man pages is the very first thing I do after minimal text install, although in "no recommends" mode, otherwise it pulls in too much for minimal pattern ... -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 1 September 2016 at 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

So indeed there is a memory problem on the NET install media. 768 MB is not enough (recommended minimum by vmware for openSUSE is 512 MB)

So please contact VMware to correct their incorrect recommended minimum The recommended minimum for openSUSE is 1GB of RAM https://en.opensuse.org/Hardware_requirements Below 1GB is just no where near enough for a default install using the graphical installer. This might be able to be decreased if you install a very minimal system using the ncurses interface of YaST, but I'd still say at least 1GB of RAM is the minimum recommended. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 1 September 2016 at 14:52, Carlos E. R. wrote:

On 2016-09-01 14:22, Richard Brown wrote:

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On 1 September 2016 at 14:14, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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So indeed there is a memory problem on the NET install media. 768 MB is not enough (recommended minimum by vmware for openSUSE is 512 MB)

So please contact VMware to correct their incorrect recommended minimum

Yes, I'm considering that. I have to find out how.

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The recommended minimum for openSUSE is 1GB of RAM

https://en.opensuse.org/Hardware_requirements

Below 1GB is just no where near enough for a default install using the graphical installer.

But it is not true. The graphical install does run fine, if you use the Full DVD. It is the NET install media which fails, probably because it has to download things into RAM or ramdisk, instead of pulling from local storage.

The DVD installer uses less RAM than the NET installer, that is to be expected. The NET installer has to load more stuff, like the network stack, download tools, so on and so forth, in order to be able to download from HTTP, or SMB, or NFS, or any of the other protocols supported by the NET installer. Hence, the openSUSE Hardware Recommendation for 1GB of RAM, which is sufficient regardless of which media a user chooses to install from, regardless which YaST interface they choose to use, and regardless of any other factors I can think of which might impact RAM use. I do not think your opinion is valid, because it would require undue complexity on something as simple as stating our minimum requirements. We don't want uses reading a book like this before they feel comfortable to install: https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8350/8165469535_d2b8358e2a_b.jpg The minimum requirement for openSUSE is 1GB. Your report explicitally mentions running out of memory, the poor performance can be attributed to being out of memory. Give your VMs enough memory. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2016-09-01 15:08, Josef Reidinger wrote:

On Thu, 1 Sep 2016 14:14:45 +0200 "Carlos E. R." <> wrote:

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So indeed there is a memory problem on the NET install media. 768 MB is not enough (recommended minimum by vmware for openSUSE is 512 MB)

The Full DVD does not have any of those problems, installs fine and fast enough (though not fast).

Let me bring some light here, as we do some investigation in this area in past weeks[1]. NET media have problem, that it have to download insts-sys stuff and it is download directly to memory. For DVD case, it directly DVD, which means some spinning, but almost no memory. After some work, we reduced for TW by ( and maybe also leap, as there is more stuff ) 50 MB of RAM, but there is still a lot of stuff that have to be used. So for network based installation 1GB is recommended for graphical installation.

Perhaps the installer could warn of low memory when it starts, differentiating the type of media used (full vs net). The Net media needs more than I gave it, but the DVD works fine on 768MB. Of course, the recommended minimum by vmware is wrong: 512MB.

[1] https://lizards.opensuse.org/2016/07/27/highlights-of-yast-development-sprin... "Installer memory consumption reduced" part

He! :-) ]> For our SLE customers we promise installations on machines with as little as 512MB of RAM. For Tumbleweed, 1GB is required – so the situation is more relaxed there. Leap uses the SLE code base :-)) -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-01 15:42, Dominique Leuenberger / DimStar wrote:

On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 15:28 +0200, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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[1] https://lizards.opensuse.org/2016/07/27/highlights-of-yast-developm ent-sprint-22/ "Installer memory consumption reduced" part

He! :-)

]> For our SLE customers we promise installations on machines with as little as 512MB of RAM. For Tumbleweed, 1GB is required – so the situation is more relaxed there.

Nevertheless, Leap is openSUSE and thus is bound to the Hardware Requirements we specify - which happens to be 1GB of RAM.

Unless somebody contributes CODE to change this, I'd call this the end of this discussion.

Ok, ok, I thought we were just conversing, like friends. No need to be that blunt. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 On 2016-09-04 02:08, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Ok, ok, I thought we were just conversing, like friends. No need to be that blunt.

I think we are doing that here-- just that there is no point on having a conversation if the code needed to reduce the memory requirements is not gonna be there..;)

I accept that, of course, no problem. But it can be said nicely. Like "well, seems a nice feature, maybe someone volunteers to code it. I can't, sorry, there are other pressing tasks". By the way, I did not ask to reduce the memory requirements, but it happens that the devs have done much improvements in reducing it (thanks). The only change I suggested is a warning in the installer saying "Hey, I think you don't have enough memory to proceed with the install" (abort/ignore/retry). Sure, there is a doc somewhere that says the minimal RAM requirement. I did not read it, or did so years ago. I'm sure many people will not read it - hey, AFAIR the installer does not display the release notes before installing :-p - -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlfLadEACgkQja8UbcUWM1wdmAEAmu0fjTXTneu9ApxuPNyqUtm6 XIfrhFzIS5S1ieHPUIYBAJRU8EoskW5bKr4MG0CkYCyW1nQ8g9KW34Cq0qeAsxvu =Opoa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 4 September 2016 at 02:24, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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On 2016-09-04 02:08, Cristian Rodríguez wrote:

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On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 3:10 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

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Ok, ok, I thought we were just conversing, like friends. No need to be that blunt.

I think we are doing that here-- just that there is no point on having a conversation if the code needed to reduce the memory requirements is not gonna be there..;)

I accept that, of course, no problem. But it can be said nicely. Like "well, seems a nice feature, maybe someone volunteers to code it. I can't, sorry, there are other pressing tasks".

You've been here long enough to know how the community works, ideas are great, but actual contributions make actual changes. I think it's natural for people to get fatigued by endless ideas.

By the way, I did not ask to reduce the memory requirements, but it happens that the devs have done much improvements in reducing it (thanks). The only change I suggested is a warning in the installer saying "Hey, I think you don't have enough memory to proceed with the install" (abort/ignore/retry).

The irony being that implementing such a feature will probably require more memory.. ;)

Sure, there is a doc somewhere that says the minimal RAM requirement. I did not read it, or did so years ago. I'm sure many people will not read it - hey, AFAIR the installer does not display the release notes before installing :-p

It does, you have a 'Release Notes' button on every single screen in YaST after you've accepted the software license. It's next to 'Help' in the bottom left hand corner. openQA sees this button in every single Leap 42.1, Leap 42.2, and Tumbleweed test it does, how come you've missed it? I thought human testing was meant to be better than a stupid automated robot ;) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 04.09.2016 14:27, Carlos E. R. wrote:

Understandable, but do you want devs to be isolated from the user community, and not get *free* feedback from the user community? Carlos, I would be willing to *pay* not to see openSUSE-Factory ml spammed by unrequested rants (aka "community feedback").

Cheers Martin

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 El 2016-09-07 a las 11:48 +0200, Ludwig Nussel escribió:

Carlos E. R. schrieb:

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[...] Perhaps the installer could warn of low memory when it starts, differentiating the type of media used (full vs net). The Net media needs more than I gave it, but the DVD works fine on 768MB.

Yes, we can do that since at least 1998¹. Linuxrc has some parameters to tune behavior depending on available RAM:²

MemLimit Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will ask the user to set up a swap partition. MemLoadImage Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will not copy the root image into RAM. MemYaST Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will start YaST in text mode. MinMemory Amount of memory in kB below which linuxrc will refuse to start. Defaults to 0.

The values are defined in this file AFAICT: https://github.com/openSUSE/installation-images/blob/master/data/initrd/them...

The settings can also be passed to linuxrc on the command line when booting. So should be fairly easy to run a set of installations with different amounts of memory from DVD and NET images to check what the limits are nowadays. Carlos, since you have the problem at hand, would you like to help with that?

Sure. But not this week, I'm not at home :-) I understand you want to try several installations with different memory ammounts, right? Which ammounts? I already know that 3/4 a GB makes the net install to fail, yast processes get killed, but works with the full dvd install in graphics mode. Perhaps a table of tests to do? - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlfP/D0ACgkQja8UbcUWM1xipwD/XXKaC9vBQKbRldbw4exJ0y8Q 205WrcXwVeu5mVo/b2QA/ihziCCHWXtDIyPrYrWDTY3vfVie31acShvxrRcm68Ol =Rred -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Carlos E. R. schrieb:

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El 2016-09-07 a las 11:48 +0200, Ludwig Nussel escribió:

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Carlos E. R. schrieb:

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[...] Perhaps the installer could warn of low memory when it starts, differentiating the type of media used (full vs net). The Net media needs more than I gave it, but the DVD works fine on 768MB.

Yes, we can do that since at least 1998¹. Linuxrc has some parameters to tune behavior depending on available RAM:²

MemLimit Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will ask the user to set up a swap partition. MemLoadImage Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will not copy the root image into RAM. MemYaST Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will start YaST in text mode.

Small correction, MemYaST is "Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will ask the user to set up a swap partition before starting YaST."

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MinMemory Amount of memory in kB below which linuxrc will refuse to start. Defaults to 0.

The values are defined in this file AFAICT: https://github.com/openSUSE/installation-images/blob/master/data/initrd/them...

The settings can also be passed to linuxrc on the command line when booting. So should be fairly easy to run a set of installations with different amounts of memory from DVD and NET images to check what the limits are nowadays. Carlos, since you have the problem at hand, would you like to help with that?

Sure. But not this week, I'm not at home :-)

I understand you want to try several installations with different memory ammounts, right? Which ammounts? I already know that 3/4 a GB

You have to try how low you can go. The lowest amount possible is when the boot loader can't load kernel and initrd anymore or linuxrc crashes at startup. When linuxrc or YaST start but crash later, passing values for the above mentioned parameters should make linuxrc create swap and allow to continue the installation. Maybe Steffen can has some hints how to find out how to tune MemLimit, MemLoadImage and MemYaST?

makes the net install to fail, yast processes get killed, but works with the full dvd install in graphics mode.

Perhaps a table of tests to do?

Yes, a table could help to visualize the result. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.com/ SUSE Linux GmbH, GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton, HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 Content-ID: El 2016-09-07 a las 15:52 +0200, Steffen Winterfeldt escribió:

On Wednesday 2016-09-07 14:34, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

BTW, we worked on reducing the install memory footprint recently:

https://lizards.opensuse.org/2016/07/27/highlights-of-yast-development-sprin...

I think I read it, somebody pointed at it before :-)

For this I collected some numbers (see attached file). The things mentioned there have all been implemented meanwhile.

You can see that tumbleweed (I would place leap close to tw) needs more space than sles12 but not _that_ much more. And as sles12 _does_ install on 0.5 GB machines, it's not clear why 0.75 GB should be a problem for leap. Even if you account for larger repositories.

It is true that there are hooks still in linuxrc for quite some counter-measures including activating swap and even creating a swap file on a windows partition (haven't tried this for a decade but the code is still there...).

But the memory limits for those haven't been updated for ages. Mainly because it is a bit unpractical: you have to tune them again for every release and every architecture. And yes, it changes from beta to beta.

So, basically we've given up on the fine-tuning and just say 'go for 1GB'.

Makes sense.

That said, I think that leap failing to install on 0.75 GB would be a bug.

This is the only hard data I saved of the failure, hand copied: Aug 32 16:24:56 install kernel: [1863.894454] Out of memory: Kill process 3303 (y2base) score 243 or sacrifice child Aug 32 16:24:56 install kernel: [1863.894460] Killed process 4041 (y2base) total-vm:941428kB, anon-rss:169804kB, file-rss:0kB, shmem-rss:2508kB - -- Cheers Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" (Minas Tirith)) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iF4EAREIAAYFAlfQTpgACgkQja8UbcUWM1wJtwD+Msms/bWgaAto/R/oTHTqpfH4 0CixQNsWzTQOzxmYYSEA/jJio+d56eNjCqAop3JB5YzTWbev7EQ/QPv9UgurnIKH =L2CS -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Hello, Am Mittwoch, 14. September 2016, 16:58:50 CEST schrieb Carlos E. R.:

So the question is, when does the installer enable swap automatically (I don't remember if it does), or do I have to enable it manually as soon as I can?

https://en.opensuse.org/Linuxrc says there's a boot parameter AddSwap which you can use, for example AddSwap=/dev/sda1

I have just done that, manually enabled swap as soon as I could; YaST2 starts fine and the installation runs much faster than on previous tests. It is using about 250MB of swap.

That sounds like swap isn't enabled by default - at least not early enough. Regards, Christian Boltz -- never touch a running system ----> for windows: never touch the keyboard of a running system -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Content-ID: On Wednesday, 2016-09-07 at 11:48 +0200, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

Yes, we can do that since at least 1998¹. Linuxrc has some parameters to tune behavior depending on available RAM:²

MemLimit Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will ask the user to set up a swap partition. MemLoadImage Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will not copy the root image into RAM. MemYaST Amount of free memory in kB below which linuxrc will start YaST in text mode. MinMemory Amount of memory in kB below which linuxrc will refuse to start. Defaults to 0.

The values are defined in this file AFAICT: https://github.com/openSUSE/installation-images/blob/master/data/initrd/them...

The settings can also be passed to linuxrc on the command line when booting. So should be fairly easy to run a set of installations with different amounts of memory from DVD and NET images to check what the limits are nowadays. Carlos, since you have the problem at hand, would you like to help with that?

I have tried with the NET installer media, build 164. I know that other builds may vary. I try from 512MB in 128MB granularity, using the same virtual machine under vmware player, deleting the hard disk for each test. These are manual tests and take hours each, so I can't go finer. I attempt the graphical installer, trying the text mode install only if it starts automatically. ** The minimum for the NET installer is 896MB RAM, probably somewhat less. 768 MB is the size recomended by vmware for opensSUSE 64 bits install, but it fails. YaST is very slow on each screen. Failures are not clear, but some of the childs die, at the screen to choose packages, grub and other settings, or perhaps at the partition choices. 512 MB fails (but it is the minimum size reccomended by vmware for opensSUSE 64 bits), crashing both graphical and text mode installs before the first screen (and it is very slow to do so). However, it is possible to jump to a text console while YaST is trying to start and create a swap partition with fdisk and mkswap. Then we have to reboot and add that swap manually - the installation crashes before it has a chance to add swap automatically. Or enable it at boot (Thanks to Christian Boltz for this info): https://en.opensuse.org/Linuxrc says there's a boot parameter AddSwap which you can use, for example AddSwap=/dev/sda1 ** The minimum for the full DVD install is 768MB I tried 640 MB. It gets to the license display in minutes, then stalls. I can't switch to a text console to find out what happened. So I reboot and switch to VT2 as soon as I can, creating a partition table and one swap partition with fdisk, and I activate it manually, without reboot. - From that instant YaST in graphical mode is reasonably snappy and I can finish the installation just fine. I have not tried 512MB (full DVD), but guessing from the Net install and the above test, it would require creating and enabling swap as soon as possible. - -- Cheers, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.22 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAlfcGkoACgkQtTMYHG2NR9UwmwCfcr98/pKdgeugjUM35H2PvkkY 3O8An3mlFoS6ACyTXj97FVU6HYvoQwKp =uwJ5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

On 2016-09-16 20:04, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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** The minimum for the NET installer is 896MB RAM, probably somewhat less.

I successfully install the Leap422 server pattern with 512MB + swap (manually added).

Yes, one of the tests I did was with 512+swap. Normal XFCE pattern. But 896MiB is without swap, empty disk.

...

However, it is possible to jump to a text console while YaST is trying to start and create a swap partition with fdisk and mkswap. Then we have to reboot and add that swap manually

FYI, if you use usessh=1, the installer will just start a shell. You can then ssh to the machine and add swap, or do it at the console before you start yast. No reboot needed.

Interesting. How do you fire the full graphical installer? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-17 05:25, Felix Miata wrote:

Carlos E. R. composed on 2016-09-17 05:07 (UTC+0200):

I just noticed that the virtual machine implemented by vmware shares the virtual RAM with the graphical card, up to 768MB. The real ammount I don't know

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FYI, if you use usessh=1, the installer will just start a shell. You can then ssh to the machine and add swap, or do it at the console before you start yast. No reboot needed.

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Interesting. How do you fire the full graphical installer?

If I'm understanding the question:

startshell=1

https://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Linuxrc

No, no. We started the DVD with only a shell, no graphics mode, no installer, in order to use bash commands to add a swap partition and activate it. Once done, we can start the full blown graphics installer, with some command (not rebooting); but I don't know which. Ah, it is yast.ssh. There is a help text in the first console. But this starts a text mode installer. If I use "startshell=1" as booot parameter I get a text console, with a message that "exit" starts the installer, this time graphical. Trying ssh fails: cer@Telcontar:~> ssh -X root@192.168.74.128 The authenticity of host '192.168.74.128 (192.168.74.128)' can't be established. ECDSA key fingerprint is 33:d6:eb:45:7d:c5:ed:08:65:bf:7d:2e:f8:30:ae:90. Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? yes Warning: Permanently added '192.168.74.128' (ECDSA) to the list of known hosts. Received disconnect from 192.168.74.128: 2: Too many authentication failures cer@Telcontar:~> This is a failure (Too many authentication failures) that I get normally here, and I solve by editing /etc/ssh/sshd_config in the server: #MaxAuthTries 6 MaxAuthTries 12 I can edit that change in the install system, but I can't restart sshd: both rcsshd and systemctl fail, no services. I have to do it directly, kill and call the binary. And yes, this time I can start the graphical installer in the host machine. There must be another way to start the graphical system in the "guest". It is possible that there is something in my client ssh that causes that auth failure, but it happens since years. My cure is on the server, but probably there is something else I can do on the client. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-18 03:08, Felix Miata wrote:

Normally when I want swap enabled during openSUSE installation, I boot the installer normally, and as soon as the first GUI screen awaits a response, I Ctrl-Alt-F2, then turn existing swap on. I don't boot any installer without having first partitioned and prepared partitions for anticipated use. When the installer objects to an installation without designating a swap partition, I tell it proceed without swap, and fix fstab on first normal boot of the installed system myself.

I know you do that ( ;-) ), but the intend was to test the normal installation procedure. To find out the real amount of RAM that was required. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On 2016-09-16 20:04, Per Jessen wrote:

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Carlos E. R. wrote:

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** The minimum for the NET installer is 896MB RAM, probably somewhat less.

I successfully install the Leap422 server pattern with 512MB + swap (manually added).

Yes, one of the tests I did was with 512+swap. Normal XFCE pattern. But 896MiB is without swap, empty disk.

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However, it is possible to jump to a text console while YaST is trying to start and create a swap partition with fdisk and mkswap. Then we have to reboot and add that swap manually

FYI, if you use usessh=1, the installer will just start a shell. You can then ssh to the machine and add swap, or do it at the console before you start yast. No reboot needed.

Interesting. How do you fire the full graphical installer?

I don't know, I just use the ncurses interface.

Actually, you only have to use 'ssh -X' I think. That way YaST should recognise that X is present and use that. -- Per Jessen, Zürich (16.8°C) http://www.hostsuisse.com/ - dedicated server rental in Switzerland. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 2016-09-19 17:09, Ludwig Nussel wrote:

Carlos E. R. schrieb:

...

[...] ** The minimum for the NET installer is 896MB RAM, probably somewhat less. [...] ** The minimum for the full DVD install is 768MB

Thanks Carlos! So with those limits I guess it's fair to make linuxrc warn if RAM is less than 1G. If we want a lower limit, someone has to debug where the memory goes. Mind filing a bug?

Done! :-) Bugzilla – Bug 999776 System Install does not warn that memory is too low to perform Leap install. https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=999776 -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-27 02:28, Kyrill Detinov wrote:

Just for info (off topic, sorry).

I have installed openSUSE 13.1 NET on Toshiba Satellite 1800. 11 GB HDD, _128_ MB RAM (-8 MB for Video).

I have made a swap partition before. The installation has taken about 24 hours (via Wi-Fi).

Wow :-) Was the swap detected automatically, or did you do something? -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-28 00:28, Kyrill Detinov wrote:

On Tue, 27 Sep 2016 03:47:05 +0200 Carlos E. R. wrote:

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I have made a swap partition before. The installation has taken about 24 hours (via Wi-Fi).

Wow :-)

Was the swap detected automatically, or did you do something?

As far as I remember, the swap was detected. And there was a choice to use it in the YaST installer.

Curious. In my case it wasn't used automatically. And if it is not used early enough, yast crashes. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On Thu, 2016-09-01 at 15:21 +0200, Bernhard Voelker wrote:

  So indeed there is a memory problem on the NET install media. 768 MB is not enough (recommended minimum by vmware for openSUSE is 512 MB)

You could install some swap space during installation ... of course it'd still be not much fun.

On what disk ? Mind, the user did not yet approve changes to the disk layout... and just dumping data there does not sound like a great idea. Of the user feels like doing this before running the installer, then that's of course fine Cheers, Dominique

On 2016-09-01 15:21, Bernhard Voelker wrote:

On 09/01/2016 02:14 PM, Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

On vty4 there is a log and and the last two entries say:

Aug 32 16:24:56 install kernel: [1863.894454] Out of memory: Kill process 3303 (y2base) score 243 or sacrifice child Aug 32 16:24:56 install kernel: [1863.894460] Killed process 4041 (y2base) total-vm:941428kB, anon-rss:169804kB, file-rss:0kB, shmem-rss:2508kB

So indeed there is a memory problem on the NET install media. 768 MB is not enough (recommended minimum by vmware for openSUSE is 512 MB)

You could install some swap space during installation ... of course it'd still be not much fun.

Yes, of course. But not using the NET install media. Anyway, I was not trying to do a minimal RAM install. I was using the defaults recommended by vmware for an openSUSE image. I want to report to them that they are wrong, but I have to find where. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-01 15:41, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

The Full DVD does not have any of those problems, installs fine and fast enough (though not fast).

Maybe it uses swap.

Not till it starts partitioning the disk. The virtual disk was "new".

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ntpd I taboo in all vmware guest installs per the recommendation from Vmware: the clock should be adjusted and trimmed only on the host CPU, not on the guests.

Funny, exactly the opposite on xen, otherwise systemd keeps complaining about the clock being adjusted.

Ah, I haven't tested that part yet.

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The guests should instead use the guest tools to query the host for the time. Yes, AFAIR I reported this several years ago, but the problem remains.

I guess the installation wouold need to be sensitive to which host it is running on, that's perhaps not so easy.

Well, it is in part, because the vmware guest tools were installed automatically (note to myself: verify).

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Removing ntpd causes the installation to halt midprocess and complain of an error. Hitting continue works.

That sounds like a bug.

Ah, possibly.

...

Probably other virtualization technology have the same issue, do not use ntp. I do not know for certain.

With xen, my guests run ntpd and have xen.independent_wallclock=1.

And both host and guest try to adjust the speed of the mother board hardware clock chip? (not the bios clock, that's a very different one). At best, it is wasted resources. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-01 16:03, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

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...

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ntpd I taboo in all vmware guest installs per the recommendation from Vmware: the clock should be adjusted and trimmed only on the host CPU, not on the guests.

Funny, exactly the opposite on xen, otherwise systemd keeps complaining about the clock being adjusted.

Ah, I haven't tested that part yet.

systemd keeps saying "Time has been changed".

Not here. linux-qyxj:~ # journalctl | grep "Time has" Aug 31 17:28:42 linux-qyxj systemd[1]: Time has been changed Sep 01 19:26:48 linux-qyxj systemd[1602]: Time has been changed Sep 01 19:26:48 linux-qyxj systemd[1204]: Time has been changed Sep 01 19:26:48 linux-qyxj systemd[1]: Time has been changed linux-qyxj:~ # There is an hibernation in the middle, which explains the lapse.

See perhaps this thread. https://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-virtual/2015-03/msg00015.html

Well, my knowledge of XEN is very limited.

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Removing ntpd causes the installation to halt midprocess and complain of an error. Hitting continue works.

That sounds like a bug.

Ah, possibly.

Just saw it - it says "Error: Cannot adjust 'NTP' service.", it's one of the last steps " Writing NTP Configuration... ".

Yes, that one.

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Probably other virtualization technology have the same issue, do not use ntp. I do not know for certain.

With xen, my guests run ntpd and have xen.independent_wallclock=1.

And both host and guest try to adjust the speed of the mother board hardware clock chip? (not the bios clock, that's a very different one).

No, only the Dom0 does that. The guests are independent when you use xen.independent_wallclock=1.

http://www.novell.com/documentation/vmserver/config_options/data/b9qzhq5.htm...

But if you run the ntp daemon on guests, it tries to adjust the speed of the clock there. That's how it works. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 2016-09-02 07:21, Per Jessen wrote:

Carlos E. R. wrote:

...

But if you run the ntp daemon on guests, it tries to adjust the speed of the clock there. That's how it works.

We're straying off-topic, if you want to continue, maybe on opensuse-virtual?

Sure. -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 13.1 x86_64 "Bottle" at Telcontar)

On 09/09/16 08:14, Per Jessen wrote:

Per Jessen wrote:

...

I installed a xen guest this morning, server text-only pattern, all looks good. I was surprised by the new yast pattern selection, and also deselected a few font-related packages that I had no need for, but otherwise okay.

I can't seem to find /proc/sys/xen/independent_wallclock ?

This setting is no longer available, as the now used kernel is pvops instead of the specific xen kernel. You shouldn't need it. Are you experiencing problems in domUs? Juergen -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

briefly: I had noticed during upgrade from 42.1 to 42.2 beta1 via zypper dup via kterm in kde from live running 42.1 kde system: inside the kde after zypper dup went through, the kde start menu would not react any more those reboot commands, i clicked reboot or restart or whatsitcalled several times, waited but nothing happened. eventually i went to a real console session alt+Fn or something and issued reboot there. It rebooted. is the kde session supposed to go defunct on certain parts of it as thousand of packages and libraries have been replaced after a zypper dup and thus kde rendered dysfunctional or certain scripts or targets missing from the then replaced 42.1 state as soon as it became a not yet rebooted 42.2? towards the end of zypper dup it executed some pl script or so and used cpu time visible via top for several tens of seconds, whose name was something about btrfs online defrag or such, but odd enough my system has zero btrfs partitions or disks, only ext3 or ext4 here or something. wondering what that btrfs related perl script is actually doing all those tens of seconds. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org