[opensuse-factory] Firefox (mozilla) plans for 11.0

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Wolfgang Rosenauer

7 Feb 2008 7 Feb '08

09:15

Hi, I want to discuss some planning for Firefox on 11.0 as JPR suggested on IRC. Version for 11.0: ----------------- First thing is that Firefox 3.0 final will most likely not be ready for 11.0beta1 or even 11.0beta1+ according to http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/11.0 . I've found no detailed roadmap for Firefox but people think it won't be ready at that time. So we(*) are planning to ship a current Beta Version of Firefox 3.0 at this time and so hopefully will be able to update to the final version when it comes (probably with the first security round). One thing to mention for that case is that we need to update NSPR and NSS to support Firefox 3.0 whose versions are also not final yet (but possibly will be in time). (*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here. A current testpackage for FF 3.0 is available through the buildservice in mozilla:beta. Feel free to give it a try. Packages are also available for 10.2 and 10.3. Older distributions are not supported by Firefox 3 anymore because of the minimal required GTK version 2.10. Shipping "vehicle" for Firefox ------------------------------ If you follow RedHat/Fedora development a bit, you might have noticed that they are not shipping a "big" Firefox package but only a small one containing Firefox specific compoments and UI. The core components are used from xulrunner what we shipped in the past as gecko embedding engine as well. I wonder if we want to do the same? Comments please! Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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Stephan Kulow

7 Feb 7 Feb

09:22

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here.

What do the upstream Firefox maintainer think about it? any idea?

...

Shipping "vehicle" for Firefox ------------------------------ If you follow RedHat/Fedora development a bit, you might have noticed that they are not shipping a "big" Firefox package but only a small one containing Firefox specific compoments and UI. The core components are used from xulrunner what we shipped in the past as gecko embedding engine as well. I wonder if we want to do the same?

As we talk about "big" and small - is it possible to split out the gnome-vfs dependency in a subpackage not required on a KDE installation? That would make my job of creating a KDE CD much easier. Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

09:49

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here.

What do the upstream Firefox maintainer think about it? any idea?

I haven't asked for permission yet (Trademarks you know) but I wouldn't expect a complaint here (as long as we provide an update to the final when available). I can find out I think.

...

...
Shipping "vehicle" for Firefox ------------------------------ If you follow RedHat/Fedora development a bit, you might have noticed that they are not shipping a "big" Firefox package but only a small one containing Firefox specific compoments and UI. The core components are used from xulrunner what we shipped in the past as gecko embedding engine as well. I wonder if we want to do the same?

As we talk about "big" and small - is it possible to split out the gnome-vfs dependency in a subpackage not required on a KDE installation? That would make my job of creating a KDE CD much easier.

That could be possible. It seems that all gnome-vfs dependencies are still in separate components. Feel free to test that by removing components/libmozgnome.so and components/libnkgnomevfs.so and see how Firefox behaves. I don't like that idea actually but if needed it should be possible. I'm just wondering how the requirements need to be set to make sure to always install that dependency (as long as the subpackage) is accessible. Sounds like one of "Essentialfor", "Supplements" or "Recommends". Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

09:57

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

I'm just wondering how the requirements need to be set to make sure to always install that dependency (as long as the subpackage) is accessible. Sounds like one of "Essentialfor", "Supplements" or "Recommends".

Recommends will pull it in when it's there - and all it's dependencies. Supplements: packageand(gnomevfs2:MozillaFirefox) would be the preferred though :) Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

10:22

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
I'm just wondering how the requirements need to be set to make sure to always install that dependency (as long as the subpackage) is accessible. Sounds like one of "Essentialfor", "Supplements" or "Recommends".

Recommends will pull it in when it's there - and all it's dependencies. Supplements: packageand(gnomevfs2:MozillaFirefox) would be the preferred though :)

Really? I'm not sure. What I think should happen is, if someone installs Firefox he wants all features (if available). That means a gnomevfs subpackage (and its dependencies) should be pulled in. The example for your KDE CD would be that the gnomevfs subpackage wouldn't be there at all and therefore not installed. I usually don't choose libraries for installation (as for gnomevfs2) but applications. Therefore only installing a gnomevfs subpackage if someone already has chosen the library is not what I expect from a package manager. Is there a bugreport about it already and if not could you create one? (as feature requests are not publically available it only works through bugzilla I think) Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Stephan Kulow

11:45

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...

Really? I'm not sure. What I think should happen is, if someone installs Firefox he wants all features (if available). That means a gnomevfs subpackage (and its dependencies) should be pulled in. Well, he wants all features he's interested in. A KDE user might not be _that_ interested in GNOME integration. But honestly, I don't know what firefox uses gnomevfs for. And gstreamer also has optional gnome support compiled in.

...

I usually don't choose libraries for installation (as for gnomevfs2) but applications. Therefore only installing a gnomevfs subpackage if someone already has chosen the library is not what I expect from a package manager. Is there a bugreport about it already and if not could you create one? (as feature requests are not publically available it only works through bugzilla I think)

I'm not aware of any. Greetings, Stephan -- SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nürnberg) --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

12:52

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Well, he wants all features he's interested in. A KDE user might not be _that_ interested in GNOME integration. But honestly, I don't know what firefox uses gnomevfs for. And gstreamer also has optional gnome support compiled in.

gnome-vfs' main purpose is to find helper applications in the mime database. I thought that shared-mime-info is a freedesktop.org thing and will be used in KDE as well? So it's even possible to get a KDE application recommended nowadays through gnome-vfs ;-) It's just that Firefox uses gnome-vfs to access that information. libnkgnomevfs is not really important. It allows access to gnome-vfs functions to open other kind of URIs (as for example SMB). In libmozgnome there are only a few other things like the default browser check, setting desktop background things. Basically gconf settings stuff. (Hmm, so most probably clicking on mailto links will be screwed by default when that component is not there but that could be thought of a minor issue). Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Robert Kaiser

14:27

Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
What I think should happen is, if someone installs Firefox he wants all features (if available). That means a gnomevfs subpackage (and its dependencies) should be pulled in. Well, he wants all features he's interested in. A KDE user might not be _that_ interested in GNOME integration.

That said, at least the wider Mozilla community, if not even the mozilla Corporation itself would be quite happy if someone who knows KDE would volunteer to work on better integration of Mozilla applications with KDE. When I talk to fellow Mozilla devs about that topic, all I hear is "KDE people don't want to cooperate with us, but Gnome people were interested, so we naturally went that way". Robert Kaiser --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

JP Rosevear

11 Feb 11 Feb

14:35

On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 10:22 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here.

What do the upstream Firefox maintainer think about it? any idea?

I talked the Chris Blizzard, one of the community liaisons, and they are fine with shipping an RC (though I think he meant beta as well since he was fine with trademarking for both betas and RCs) as long as we were committed to shipping the final release as an update after the openSUSE release. Other linux distros have the timing issue as well, so this seems to be a general MozFo policy. Trying to nail down an NSS schedule atm. Wolfgang, maybe you have some details here? -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

18:32

JP Rosevear wrote:

...

On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 10:22 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...
Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here. What do the upstream Firefox maintainer think about it? any idea?

I talked the Chris Blizzard, one of the community liaisons, and they are fine with shipping an RC (though I think he meant beta as well since he was fine with trademarking for both betas and RCs) as long as we were committed to shipping the final release as an update after the openSUSE release. Other linux distros have the timing issue as well, so this seems to be a general MozFo policy.

Trying to nail down an NSS schedule atm. Wolfgang, maybe you have some details here?

NSS 3.12 is basically planned to be a companion release to Firefox 3. That's an issue for us since we run into crypto freeze at some point. Anyone knows the Fedora roadmap? Since NSS is basically driven by RedHat nowadays (since they bought Netscape's server division) they'll most probably sync the release to be in time for Fedora. I know one of the RH guys working on NSS and will ask him ASAP. Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

JP Rosevear

18:48

On Mon, 2008-02-11 at 19:32 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

JP Rosevear wrote:

...
On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 10:22 +0100, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...
Am Donnerstag 07 Februar 2008 schrieb Wolfgang Rosenauer:

...
(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here. What do the upstream Firefox maintainer think about it? any idea?

I talked the Chris Blizzard, one of the community liaisons, and they are fine with shipping an RC (though I think he meant beta as well since he was fine with trademarking for both betas and RCs) as long as we were committed to shipping the final release as an update after the openSUSE release. Other linux distros have the timing issue as well, so this seems to be a general MozFo policy.

Trying to nail down an NSS schedule atm. Wolfgang, maybe you have some details here?

NSS 3.12 is basically planned to be a companion release to Firefox 3. That's an issue for us since we run into crypto freeze at some point. Anyone knows the Fedora roadmap? Since NSS is basically driven by RedHat nowadays (since they bought Netscape's server division) they'll most probably sync the release to be in time for Fedora. I know one of the RH guys working on NSS and will ask him ASAP.

Fedora 9 has a development freeze about the time of our Beta 1 (they release end of April). -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

28 Feb 28 Feb

15:22

Hi, Stephan Kulow wrote:

...

As we talk about "big" and small - is it possible to split out the gnome-vfs dependency in a subpackage not required on a KDE installation? That would make my job of creating a KDE CD much easier.

the mozilla-xulrunner190 package in mozilla:beta now has a subpackage -gnomevfs which contain the components requiring gnome-vfs. (Firefox will be based on that xulrunner package most likely and so doesn't need to be split). That's for testing purposes for now. The gnomevfs package is recommended now and should always be installed if available. So on a KDE CD this package should just been left out. The overall behaviour with Firefox based on it still has to be tested when I finished a "new" Firefox package. Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Alexey Eremenko

7 Feb 7 Feb

09:22

On Feb 7, 2008 9:15 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Hi,

I want to discuss some planning for Firefox on 11.0 as JPR suggested on IRC.

Version for 11.0: ----------------- First thing is that Firefox 3.0 final will most likely not be ready for 11.0beta1 or even 11.0beta1+ according to http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/11.0 . I've found no detailed roadmap for Firefox but people think it won't be ready at that time.

So we(*) are planning to ship a current Beta Version of Firefox 3.0 at this time and so hopefully will be able to update to the final version when it comes (probably with the first security round). One thing to mention for that case is that we need to update NSPR and NSS to support Firefox 3.0 whose versions are also not final yet (but possibly will be in time).

(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here.

A current testpackage for FF 3.0 is available through the buildservice in mozilla:beta. Feel free to give it a try. Packages are also available for 10.2 and 10.3. Older distributions are not supported by Firefox 3 anymore because of the minimal required GTK version 2.10.

Shipping "vehicle" for Firefox ------------------------------ If you follow RedHat/Fedora development a bit, you might have noticed that they are not shipping a "big" Firefox package but only a small one containing Firefox specific compoments and UI. The core components are used from xulrunner what we shipped in the past as gecko embedding engine as well. I wonder if we want to do the same?

Comments please!

Now FFox 3 BETA 3 soon comes out, and I believe that FF 3 *will* be ready for openSUSE 11.0. -- -Alexey Eremenko "Technologov" --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

JP Rosevear

12:14

On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 09:22 +0000, Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

On Feb 7, 2008 9:15 AM, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

Now FFox 3 BETA 3 soon comes out, and I believe that FF 3 *will* be ready for openSUSE 11.0.

Yes, possibly right near the end (ie mid-May to mid-June). There will be a beta 4. And we'd need to prepare before that date because of nss which contains crypto as Wolfgang points out. -JP -- JP Rosevear Novell, Inc. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Robert Kaiser

14:22

Alexey Eremenko wrote:

...

Now FFox 3 BETA 3 soon comes out, and I believe that FF 3 *will* be ready for openSUSE 11.0.

Wolfgang is pretty close to Mozilla/FF development, and honestly, you won't hear anyone in Mozilla talking yet about any estimated release date for Firefox 3 yet. Unfortunately, I'm quite confident that SeaMonkey 2 will not be ready for 11.0 yet - I hope we'll make it into 11.1 then... Robert Kaiser --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Miata

15:04

On 2008/02/07 10:15 (GMT+0100) Wolfgang Rosenauer apparently typed:

...

I want to discuss some planning for Firefox on 11.0 as JPR suggested on IRC.

...

Version for 11.0: ----------------- First thing is that Firefox 3.0 final will most likely not be ready for 11.0beta1 or even 11.0beta1+ according to http://en.opensuse.org/Roadmap/11.0 . I've found no detailed roadmap for Firefox but people think it won't be ready at that time.

...

So we(*) are planning to ship a current Beta Version of Firefox 3.0 at this time and so hopefully will be able to update to the final version when it comes (probably with the first security round). One thing to mention for that case is that we need to update NSPR and NSS to support Firefox 3.0 whose versions are also not final yet (but possibly will be in time).

...

(*) afaik JPR and MAW and myself agree with that. Other opinions to come here.

I think FF3 should reach RC considerably before 11.0 reaches RC. I expect FF3 final before 11.0 RC. FF3 has l10n string freeze already, and beta 3 imminent, probably less than a week, almost certainly less than two weeks: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_3.0b3 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases http://wiki.mozilla.org/TreeStatus There are nebulous plans for a beta 4: http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2008/02/05/aboutmozilla-firef... -- "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 NIV Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 Felix Miata *** http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Wolfgang Rosenauer

15:19

Felix Miata wrote:

...

I think FF3 should reach RC considerably before 11.0 reaches RC. I expect FF3 final before 11.0 RC. FF3 has l10n string freeze already, and beta 3 imminent, probably less than a week, almost certainly less than two weeks: http://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Firefox_3.0b3 http://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases http://wiki.mozilla.org/TreeStatus

There are nebulous plans for a beta 4: http://developer.mozilla.org/devnews/index.php/2008/02/05/aboutmozilla-firef...

I still wouldn't count for it. Usually as I understand the openSUSE roadmap version updates are not allowed after beta1 generally what is Thu, Apr 17 openSUSE 11.0 Beta 1 release It could work out but you never know. FF 3.0b3 is already in my pipe and builds are just waiting to get synced out if there are no respins necessary ;-) Wolfgang --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Michael Wolf

18 Mar 18 Mar

22:12

On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 10:15 +0100, Wolfgang Rosenauer wrote:

...

Comments please!

FYI: I've finally gotten to submitting mozilla-xulrunner190 and MozillaFirefox to BETA. If all goes well, I'll move them to STABLE/Factory within a few days. Michael. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

Felix Möller

22:19

Hi,

...

...
Comments please!

FYI:

I've finally gotten to submitting mozilla-xulrunner190 and MozillaFirefox to BETA. If all goes well, I'll move them to STABLE/Factory within a few days. Could you please have a look at: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=369163

At least for me MozillaFirefox does not work at all. firefox does work, but crashes every time I quit it. greetings Felix Möller --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org For additional commands, e-mail: opensuse-factory+help@opensuse.org

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participants (8)

Alexey Eremenko
Felix Miata
Felix Möller
JP Rosevear
Michael Wolf
Robert Kaiser
Stephan Kulow
Wolfgang Rosenauer