Il 02/02/19 01:31, Karl Cheng ha scritto:

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 at 11:12, Daniele wrote:

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Please, stop adding craps like xeyes, xload & company. Who do I have to kill? Package/pattern I mean ;)

qantas94heavy@linux-abc3:~> zypper se --recommends xload Loading repository data... Reading installed packages...

S | Name | Summary | Type --+----------+---------------------------------------------------------+-------- | xorg-x11 | Compatibility metapackage for X.Org sample applications | package

Oh thanks. Next question is who requires/recommends xorg-x11 ? # zypper se --recommends xorg-x11 Loading repository data... Reading installed packages... S | Name | Summary | Type ---+----------------------------------+------------------------------------------------------+-------- i+ | mkfontdir | Utility to create index of X font files | package i+ | mkfontscale | Utility to create index of scalable font files for X | package i+ | patterns-base-x11 | X Window System | package | patterns-base-x11-32bit | X Window System | package l | patterns-base-x11_enhanced | X Window System | package | patterns-base-x11_enhanced-32bit | X Window System | package | patterns-base-x11_opt | X Window System | package i+ | patterns-fonts-fonts | Fonts | package i+ | patterns-fonts-fonts_opt | Fonts | package | patterns-lxde-lxde | LXDE Desktop Environment | package | patterns-lxqt-lxqt | LXQt Desktop Environment | package | patterns-media-rest_dvd | Remaining Software | package | patterns-server-kvm_tools | KVM Virtualization Host and tools | package | patterns-server-xen_tools | XEN Virtualization Host and tools | package | python2-PyVirtualDisplay | Python wrapper for Xvfb, Xephyr and Xvnc | package | python2-pytest-xvfb | Pytest plugin to run Xvfb for tests | package | python3-PyVirtualDisplay | Python wrapper for Xvfb, Xephyr and Xvnc | package | python3-pytest-xvfb | Pytest plugin to run Xvfb for tests | package | sway | Window manager for Wayland compatible with i3 | package | xorg-x11-Xvnc | TigerVNC implementation of Xvnc | package i+ | xorg-x11-server | X | package | xorg-x11-server-extra | Additional Xservers (Xdmx, Xephyr, Xnest) | package i+ | xorg-x11-server-wayland | Xwayland Xserver | package Is this list correct ? It seems that, for example, patterns-fonts-fonts does not require xorg-x11. Also all already installed packages and patterns are installed for a long time. So, why it happens now ? Thanks, Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 02:07:26 CET schreef Daniele:

Il 02/02/19 01:42, Felix Miata ha scritto:

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Daniele composed on 2019-02-02 01:12 (UTC+0100):

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Who do I have to kill? Package/pattern I mean ;)

Any specific package or pattern for this case I don't know, but I know I avoid a lot of this kind of thing via zypp.conf's solver.onlyRequires = true option. zypper.conf has a related option: installRecommends = no.

Yes yes, I know but the problem is that nothing should recommeds stuff like xeyes or at the least, nothing should recommends something that recommends xeyes :)

Daniele. Then ..... bugzilla.

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Monday 2019-02-04 23:40, Christian Boltz wrote:

Hello,

Am Samstag, 2. Februar 2019, 09:18:31 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

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Then ..... bugzilla.

I'd really like to open a bugreport, but I'm afraid it would be marked as a duplicate of https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1121730 which I reported 3 weeks ago ;-)

There are ample more options with increasing escalations. For example, a patterns PR that fixes issue 1121730 says "curse you for ignoring my bug report" like nothing else ;-) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Hello, Am Dienstag, 5. Februar 2019, 09:38:31 CET schrieb Simon Lees:

On 05/02/2019 09:59, Jan Engelhardt wrote:

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On Monday 2019-02-04 23:40, Christian Boltz wrote:

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Am Samstag, 2. Februar 2019, 09:18:31 CET schrieb Knurpht-openSUSE:

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Then ..... bugzilla.

I'd really like to open a bugreport, but I'm afraid it would be marked as a duplicate of https://bugzilla.opensuse.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1121730 which I reported 3 weeks ago ;-)

There are ample more options with increasing escalations.

For example, a patterns PR that fixes issue 1121730 says "curse you for ignoring my bug report" like nothing else ;-)

I often do that for small changes/fixes (even without doing any bugzilla paperwork before), but only if I know what I'm doing ;-) As you can see in the discussion in the bugreport, things aren't that clear for this "little change", which is also the reason why I chose bugzilla instead of a SR.

Or assigning your bug report to the person most likely to make the change :-P

That (your and Jan's answer) must be what I get for asking people to kick me. Thanks ;-) Regards, Christian Boltz -- "Microsoft spel chekar worgs grate!" -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 02/02/19 10:32, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

xorg-x11.spec:Recommends: xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

Xeyes is only an example. xload, xman, xmag, xedit... Who want to install xorg-x11 ? Why ? Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 02/02/19 12:20, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:

On 02/02/2019 12.16, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 10:32, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

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xorg-x11.spec:Recommends:     xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

Xeyes is only an example. xload, xman, xmag, xedit... Who want to install xorg-x11 ? Why ?

Everyone that uses openSUSE in graphics mode, AFAIK.

For sure not me. In 20 years I've never used one of these. Do you really want Xeyes and Xmag ? Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On 02/02/2019 12.34, Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 12:26:31 CET schreef Daniele:

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Il 02/02/19 12:20, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:

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On 02/02/2019 12.16, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 10:32, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

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xorg-x11.spec:Recommends: xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

Xeyes is only an example. xload, xman, xmag, xedit... Who want to install xorg-x11 ? Why ?

Everyone that uses openSUSE in graphics mode, AFAIK.

For sure not me. In 20 years I've never used one of these. Do you really want Xeyes and Xmag ?

Daniele. If you're that sure, remove xorg-x11 and see if your desktop still works. Don't complain if it doesn't.

The package only contains a single file: Telcontar:/var/lib # rpm -ql xorg-x11 /usr/share/doc/packages/xorg-x11 /usr/share/doc/packages/xorg-x11/README.meta Telcontar:/var/lib # cat /usr/share/doc/packages/xorg-x11/README.meta This package is a metapackage, created for compatibility. Please use instead the following packages: appres bdftopcf beforelight bitmap editres fonttosfnt fslsfonts fstobdf iceauth ico lbxproxy listres luit mkcomposecache oclock proxymngr rendercheck rstart showfont smproxy viewres x11perf xbacklight xbiff xcalc xclipboard xclock xcmsdb xcompmgr xcursor-themes xcursorgen xdbedizzy xditview xdpyinfo xedit xev xeyes xf86dga xfd xfindproxy xfontsel xfs xfsinfo xfwp xgamma xgc xhost xinput xkbcomp xkbevd xkbprint xkbutils xkill xload xlogo xlsatoms xlsclients xlsfonts xmag xman xmessage xmh xmore xorg-scripts xplsprinters xpr xprehashprinterlist xprop xrandr xrefresh xrestop xrx xscope xset xsetmode xsetpointer xsm xstdcmap xtrap xvidtune xvinfo xwd xwininfo xwud Telcontar:/var/lib # -- Cheers / Saludos, Carlos E. R. (from 15.0 x86_64 at Telcontar)

W dniu 02.02.2019 o 12:34, Knurpht-openSUSE pisze:

Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 12:26:31 CET schreef Daniele:

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Il 02/02/19 12:20, Carlos E. R. ha scritto:

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On 02/02/2019 12.16, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 10:32, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

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xorg-x11.spec:Recommends: xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

Xeyes is only an example. xload, xman, xmag, xedit... Who want to install xorg-x11 ? Why ?

Everyone that uses openSUSE in graphics mode, AFAIK.

For sure not me. In 20 years I've never used one of these. Do you really want Xeyes and Xmag ?

Daniele. If you're that sure, remove xorg-x11 and see if your desktop still works. Don't complain if it doesn't.

For years it worked. If it doesn't then it's a bug. If some other package *requires* a command line tool like xrandr or xdpyinfo, then obviously it should be required by that package. xorg-x11 is a "compatibility metapackage" that *recommends* some other packages, which just happens to be by default installed by zypper dup. If deinstalling this breaks my desktop, I will complain. -- Adam Mizerski

In 20 years I've never used one of these. Do you really want Xeyes and Xmag ?

I use xclock since https://bugzilla.suse.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1114570 Joachim -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 02/02/19 12:38, H.Merijn Brand ha scritto:

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 12:16:15 +0100, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 10:32, Jan Engelhardt ha scritto:

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xorg-x11.spec:Recommends: xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

Xeyes is only an example. xload, xman, xmag, xedit... Who want to install xorg-x11 ? Why ?

All that use an X11 desktop

And also because of some of these tools :)

Not the ones you mention here, but I use xev on a regular basis Fine, you need $Foo the install $foo. Few of them are a sort of low level utlities but most are.. I would say craps with better alternatives already available from all DE (almost all).

Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Il 02/02/19 13:02, H.Merijn Brand ha scritto:

Out of genuine curiosity, do you have a list somewhere the shows "modern" or "better" alternatives to to each of these (outdated) X11 tools per DE?

...

Daniele.

Kmag and the Xkill alternative are installed by default with Plasma. Same for monitoring (Xload) and probably for Xcalc (not sure if Kcalc is installed by default..) Xedit.. plenty of editor Then we have few low level utilities like Xev, needed only in special case. Icewm is installed by default so why twm ? Almost all in my list is not needed, barely used and with some alternatives already installed. There is no reason to install them as recommended, really. Daniele. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On samedi, 2 février 2019 10.32:50 h CET Jan Engelhardt wrote:

On Saturday 2019-02-02 02:07, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 01:42, Felix Miata ha scritto:

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Daniele composed on 2019-02-02 01:12 (UTC+0100):

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Who do I have to kill? Package/pattern I mean ;)

Any specific package or pattern for this case I don't know, but I know I avoid a lot of this kind of thing via zypp.conf's solver.onlyRequires = true option. zypper.conf has a related option: installRecommends = no.

Yes yes, I know but the problem is that nothing should recommeds stuff like xeyes or at the least, nothing should recommends something that recommends xeyes :)

xorg-x11.spec:Recommends: xeyes

Guess someone's holding on to the fvwm2+eyes classic desktop.

as stated later xorg-x11 is a metapackage and Tumbleweed work great here without it installed since +3 years at least -- Bruno Friedmann Ioda-Net Sàrl www.ioda-net.ch Bareos Partner, openSUSE Member, fsfe supporter GPG KEY : D5C9B751C4653227 irc: tigerfoot -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 13:00:33 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:

On 02/02/2019 02.07, Daniele wrote:

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Il 02/02/19 01:42, Felix Miata ha scritto:

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Daniele composed on 2019-02-02 01:12 (UTC+0100):

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Who do I have to kill? Package/pattern I mean ;)

Any specific package or pattern for this case I don't know, but I know I avoid a lot of this kind of thing via zypp.conf's solver.onlyRequires = true option. zypper.conf has a related option: installRecommends = no.

Yes yes, I know but the problem is that nothing should recommeds stuff like xeyes or at the least, nothing should recommends something that recommends xeyes :)

I use xeyes to test "ssh -X name@host" ;-) But you could use any other app to test, no? :P

-- Gertjan Lettink a.k.a. Knurpht openSUSE Board Member openSUSE Forums Team -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org

On Saturday 2019-02-02 20:50, Peter Suetterlin wrote:

Knurpht-openSUSE wrote:

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Op zaterdag 2 februari 2019 13:00:33 CET schreef Carlos E. R.:

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I use xeyes to test "ssh -X name@host" ;-) But you could use any other app to test, no? :P

Of course NOT! He has to SEE that it works :D SCNR

Eye see what you did there. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: opensuse-factory+unsubscribe@opensuse.org To contact the owner, e-mail: opensuse-factory+owner@opensuse.org